Nah. She was a compromise candidate agreed by the 27 heads of government after a bit of horse trading. Once they had agreed, her appointment was put before the new EU parliament to be ratified. She was the ONLY candidate in a one horse race. If the EU parliament had said no to her - and they nearly did - the 27 governments would have had to choose another candidate to put before them. One at a time. So basically, the recent EU elections had next to fuck all to do with the choice of the new EU Commission President. It's about as democratic as electing a new pope.

Feel free to say a no deal Brexit would be insane because it would, but don't pretend the EU is a model of good democracy.

So, care to explain the EU shackles to which you allude?

Let's be honest here Mr Charco. Until you are prepared to accept a democratic vote and back it to the hilt and put your shoulder to help it work, then there is no person on this Earth eloquent enough to answer your question. I wouldn't even try and answer your question until you answer why you and others are prepared to take part in a referendum but are not prepared to back the result or at the very least accept it. Sorry mate and no offence.

That is absolute unadulterated bullshit.
If people who take part in a referendum cannot accept and back the result then what is the point in having it in the first place.
People were given a choice and a promise that their choice would be implemented.
You can't accept the result and won't accept the result so the only course open to you is to leave.
Off you go, unless you want to stay and back the majority of your fellow citizens. That is the reality chum. You don't accept the decision of your fellow citizens because, in your arrogance, you know best.

I accept a democratic vote if what has been voted for is actually deliverable in a way that will actually benefit us. If that or any type of deal can be got through parliament then we can start to attempt to move forward from this fiasco.

This leave at all costs attitude, with very little substance or reasoning other than ‘leave won’ is absolutely mental though, almost unhinged. How much or how strongly to do have to feel about us being in the Worlds single biggest trade block to be so passionate about us leaving it to a end we’re you are happy to accept that you will probably be worse off for the rest of your life? Not one financial expert thinks no deal is a good idea or won’t hit our economy in a very hard way. Let’s put financial sanctions on ourselves in name of ‘democracy’

Phil, Do give over mate.
It boils down to one simple fact. We had a vote and the people who "lost" just refuse to accept it.
I said this the day after the result in 2016. We, who voted, have to accept the result and all get behind it to get the best possible outcome for the country. If we had done that we would be in a better place now.

And let's remember, the massive, conclusive majority of 51.9%! A real landslide!

The problem is PJ is that people didn't accept a democratic vote. If they had accepted it our negotiating stance with the EU would have been that much stronger as we would have appeared united. Instead we appeared divided and any negotiator worth his salt would immediately exploit that, which the EU have done. We are now showing negotiating teeth but I fear it could be too late. We are now making an attempt at brinkmanship but..........

Maybe some or the wrong politicians were put in the wrong positions but let’s be honest we would be no further forward now whoever took on the poisoned chalice it’s why our current Prime Minister was nowhere to be seen in the aftermath.

It was always going to be a complexed and drawn out and fairly undeliverable process. At the end of day those who brought about this shambles didn’t think for a second or until it was far too late the the result which happened actually would and we are all paying for that. It’s not really a case of anyone accepting the outcome of the vote, it happened this is the fallout.

Phil, nothing I can say will influence your entrenched view, especially when you tried to tell us the EU is democratic.

We're never going to resolve this, Guys. We are all the victims of circumstance.
I will not fall out with fellow Poolies over a difference of opinion.
We all have differing opinions on Brexit and we all have differing opinions on the Government and it's leader but which one of us would want the job of sorting it.
Good night.

Find me the point where I personally have said I don't respect the will of the people. You'll be a long time looking. Though of course if you want to see someone who didn't want to accept a 52-48 Referendum Vote, you could always ask, er, Nigel Farage (Link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36306681) who before the Referendum argued that a close vote wouldn't be the final word on the issue.

The above is all about the consequences of a No-Deal Brexit, this does not imply no Brexit is the alternative - leaving with a deal is a much better choice than that at the moment, though the ideologically pure (who despite appearances are probably not the majority of Leavers) seem to doubt that. The question then is what deal can we get - and that comes up against the reality of us not being in a position where we can dictate terms to the EU. To be fair to Boris, this is partly because May has spent the last two and a half years cooking up a fudge that turned out to be disliked by pretty much everyone - even those who voted for it in the end. He however seems to have decided that the blame for the inevitable crashing out should rest with the EU, and not him - not when he's finally climbed the greasy pole and wants to stay up there for a while. So the narrative will be to go into negotiations with all guns blazing, telling (not asking) the EU that these are all the things we want, in the knowledge that we won't get them - and then tell everyone that those dastardly Europeans didn't want to do a deal at all.

The question is still though, why should they just roll over for us? We're leaving, stopping paying into the budget, and have shown our continuing contempt for them by sending the likes of Farage and Widdecombe to the European Parliament; why should we expect them to say that yes, we can have tariff-free trade, no, we won't hold you to EU Regulations, yes, we'll continue to co-operate on Air Traffic Control, Atomic Energy, Science Research, Europol, and the dozens of other things that benefit us, and of course we won't have to accept free movement of people, or even the Metric System if the Moggster doesn't like it, and no, we won't have to pay anything for all of this....

News breaking this morning that PSA, owners of Vauxhall, are saying that if Brexit makes it unprofitable, they'll switch the new Astra from Ellesmere Port to elsewhere in Europe. This is real folks, this is what No-Deal Brexit threatens; in the current globalised economy, unless we have free trade deals with major trading blocs (the EU being one of the biggest and of course the closest), tariffs mean extra cost for manufacturing that they can avoid by going elsewhere. And they will.

I think we will live to regret not listening to big businesses like today’s news that Vauxhall, the CBI for example and others who are very worried about Brexit. I mean they are businesses and I think they just may know more about the effects of this farce than the average Billy Brexiteer.

Blue Passports though.

Mr Salopian, if you read the quote again I said IF you can't respect the will of the People. I have never said that you personally don't respect the will of the people. If I was sure that you didn't respect the will of the people, I wouldn't have used the word if. I hope you can accept that.
We obviously have different views on this subject and you are entitled to yours but I would appreciate being quoted correctly if that's alright with you.
I am not going to get into a point scoring exercise with you over this because I think that would be pointless and fruitless.
I have watched the development of point scoring exercises for over three years now and the net result in a lot of cases has been a fallout between friends and even families. I try to resist that scenario as best I can but it is sometimes difficult when people are prepared to call you everything from a pig to a dog for basically putting an x on a ballot paper, in a position that they don't agree with.
The common ground between you, me and others on this Forum is Pools and as such we are friends, I want it to stay like that.
However if you want to be really concerned about the future of this country, then concentrate on keeping Corbyn and Marxism as far away from No Ten as you can.
Nothing controversial about that advice.

Mr D. You asked above why would the EU not want a deal, and have used these figures to show why they would. And that's why they've offered us a deal. The sticking point is not the economics, but the politics. But it's not, as you suggested above, to make an example of us. The politics is the Irish backstop. The deal offered ensures there will be no hard Irish border. If we offered any deal that ensured no hard border, the EU would likely accept that. The problem with the deal is that the hard Brexiteers in the Tory party see the deal as a sell out, so won't go for it. And let's be clear here, all EU nations need to agree any deal. Ireland will not agree to any deal that leads to a hard border. That's the sticking point. A totally understandable one.

Of course that is understandable, Mr F. The whole farce is steeped in politics but it's not just the backstop.
As well as the Tory hardliners we have the SNP who won't vote for any deal. The Lib dems have pledged to stop brexit, whatever it takes and this new party, whatever they are called, will also vote against any deal. I haven't a clue where Labour are but they probably have hard line remainers who will vote down any deal as well.
I have no idea where we will end up and I don't think anybody else has either.
My guess is that both parties will decide to start the negotiating again after halloween, or even before, and it will just rumble on and on until it gets dropped altogether.
Maybe we should take Cameron to Tyburn Hill......hang draw and quarter him and draw a line under the whole sorry episode.
Everybody is just repeating themselves and we are getting nowhere.

Well said Mr Salopian in this quote
"News breaking this morning that PSA, owners of Vauxhall, are saying that if Brexit makes it unprofitable, they'll switch the new Astra from Ellesmere Port to elsewhere in Europe. This is real folks, this is what No-Deal Brexit threatens; in the current globalised economy, unless we have free trade deals with major trading blocs (the EU being one of the biggest and of course the closest), tariffs mean extra cost for manufacturing that they can avoid by going elsewhere. And they will."

These are the type facts that people need to know.
People who work for companies who export to Europe need to wake up to the huge risks to their jobs but in my experience many seem unaware.

The governments of Europe will be pleased to see all these high skilled jobs flood to Europe giving them immense economic benefit. Leaving the UK as a low wage low skill economy.

Lies were told before that referendum and continue.

Its a complete shambles. One way or another this has got to go back to the people.

I'll more than likely lose my job.

PSA Groupe is a French company. They wouldn't be under instruction to come out with this little titbit now would they. It wouldn't have anything to do with BJ leaving no deal on the negotiating table. LOL
Another referendum is a possibility but if the country doesn't accept the responsibility of implementing the result, I can't see the point.
Use the money more wisely.
Yes it is a shambles, so why do you want to perpetuate the shambles by having another referendum that clearly divided the country in the first place.
Good idea that, mate.
We've got a shambles so let's organise another one.
As an aside. Mr Salopian is a very intelligent man and I am a great admirer but there's no need to hang on his every word and drool over his eloquence. We can all understand where he is coming from without the echo chamber you seem to want to create.
He might be shy and therefore easily embarrassed. A bit like me
Oh and in case you want to quote the CBI..........they are partly funded by the EU, as is the BBC.
None of these people would let that influence them now, would it???? Nah...........................

It's worse that that Mutters.
You don't know this yet but the EU is about to castrate every English male with two L's in his name.
This only applies to Hartlepudlians in the first instance ( I think it is in retaliation for deeds done by Poolies in the dark distant past) but don't despair for I can put you up for a while. The locals down here don't give a shit about brexit as long as they can play cricket and drink effing Tetley's.
DUZTHAKNOW

I tend to concur with that, Phil.

PSA operates all over the world and will make business decisions based on economic factors. It possibly will be influence by French government policy. But given a no deal its own bottom line will be its main focus.

The CBI receives £148,000 per year or 0.6% of its income from the European Commission, ringfenced for them to produce surveys of business opinion. Peanuts.......but Rees Mogg put it in the public domain implying that the EU controlled the CBI.....which is nonsense.
The BBC receives £3.1m or 9% of its income from the EU. God knows why
I agree that another vote could create another shambles but i just cant see an alternative.
Perhaps we are all getting a bit impatient (only 3 years) for something to happen just like we were with Luke Williams (1 year) now its looking good.
The Mouse Trap was the longest running show.........this may well beat it.

Ah the mousetrap......I enjoyed that.
Prior to the mousetrap I think was a production called Salad days, I believe.

Apologies for the Wiki cut a paste but this Salad Days sounds brilliant.
The position of "Minister of Pleasure and Pastime" sounds interesting.

" Jane and Timothy Dawes meet in a park, soon after their graduation, to plan their lives. They agree to get married, and do so in secret, but Timothy's parents have urged him to ask his various influential uncles—a Minister, a Foreign Office official, a General, a scientist—to find him suitable employment. He and Jane, however, decide that he must take the first job that he is offered. A passing tramp offers them £7 a week to look after his mobile piano for a month, and, upon accepting, they discover that when the piano plays it gives everyone within earshot an irresistible desire to dance.
After attempts by the Minister of Pleasure and Pastime (Timothy's Ministerial uncle) to ban the disruptive music, the piano vanishes, and Timothy enlists his scientific Uncle Zed to take them in his flying saucer to retrieve it. When it is found, the tramp reappears to tell them that their month is up and the piano must be passed on to another couple."

Good eh.

Is it the same Tramp that was close friend of Mr I and used to live in Binns' window?

The biggest victory from yesterdays byelection was democracy with a 60% turnout.
Just think how different the political landscape of the UK would be with this turnout country wide.

think most would agree it would have been better if the reforendum had not happened in the first place. doubt anyone who voted to leave like me would have thought of the problems, some created by remainers, in actual leaving . if we do eventually leave we could always go back but at what cost. its not as if it was like a general election where you could change your mind and vote for another party if your choice didn,t deliver what you wanted from their promises.

Eh?

What problems have Remainers caused? They didn't vote for this undeliverable fantasy.

A lot of them did think of the problems leaving would create, which is why they voted remain.

I can fully understand why so many people voted leave, it was a very good con job where the leave campaign promised all the golden unicorns with none of the detail about how and where they would come from.

Now it is all starting to unravel they really need to admit it just can't be done.

The British motor industry after Brexit.

Now is it a Boris Traveller or Moggy 1000?

I fancy a new beamer when the German economy finally collapses..

Funnily enough, in all the years I've been driving, I've only had one major breakdown. It was in a brand new BMW 5 series which just conked out nearly causing a serious motorway pile up. It took BMW 3 months to find the fault. Totally over rated and absolutely over priced. So you, my Loid friend, are very welcome to one. The only good thing about the whole sorry mess was I didn't pay for it, it was a company car.