Stalemate on Takover.

billinghampoolie1908 · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:52 pm **Posts:** 4375

PTID wrote:

Well as I said they claim that they made an offer but didn't have a business plan or hadn't seen the full accounts. If that's true I'd say yes they must be mugs. Do you really believe a serious international investor would risk a punt on a business they don't know the full and complete financial state of and they'd proceed without a business plan. International investor or, mug punter more likely.

You would have to ask them. But i will say it once more how are we ever going to sell the club without the full accounts being shown?

Pooly_Imp · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:36 pm **Posts:** 2527

PTID wrote:

Well as I said they claim that they made an offer but didn't have a business plan or hadn't seen the full accounts. If that's true I'd say yes they must be mugs. Do you really believe a serious international investor would risk a punt on a business they don't know the full and complete financial state of and they'd proceed without a business plan. International investor or, mug punter more likely.

What an utterly confusing post. I think you're tying yourself in knots trying to desperately to defend the great one. Its what happens when your point of view is terribly weak. Ultimately they have not done business with a man who kept shifting the goal posts, would not comply with very basic and reasonable requests for data and wanted a high price for his debt ridden poorly performing asset. Still contrary to all those instincts, wanting to get this over the line for the good of the club (remember Raj os the one who metaphorically put a gun to the clubs head with his walkway threat). They've stepped from that brink. No mugs.

Krampesh · **Joined:** Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:14 am **Posts:** 586

Pooly_Imp wrote:

PTID wrote:

Well as I said they claim that they made an offer but didn't have a business plan or hadn't seen the full accounts. If that's true I'd say yes they must be mugs. Do you really believe a serious international investor would risk a punt on a business they don't know the full and complete financial state of and they'd proceed without a business plan. International investor or, mug punter more likely.

What an utterly confusing post. I think you're tying yourself in knots trying to desperately to defend the great one. Its what happens when your point of view is terribly weak. Ultimately they have not done business with a man who kept shifting the goal posts, would not comply with very basic, reasonable and routiine requests the data, wanted a ridiculous price for his debt ridden poorly performing asset. Still contrary to all those instincts, wanting to get this over the line for the good of the club (remember Raj os the one who metaphorically put a gun to the clubs head with his walkway threat). They've stepped from that brink. No mugs.

This is what people aren’t getting. They put together an offer for the club because Raj told them he would walk away in Feb. He then wasted their time, provided unaudited basic accounts and expected a business plan before deciding maybe I’ll stay on and rack up some more debt

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18928

Johnjo1 wrote:

Influx of Scotsmen is nothing new. When I started we had a fair few with Mcguigan, Mckeowen, McClure, later there was Cameron,Fraser,Gardner,Waddell,Hamilton, etc Problem now is that Scottish football is poor, and I regularly see players I’ve seen playing down at Pools playing in their Premier league.

players in this country have their own care home once they go off the boil down here. its called the scottish leagues. nearly a two club set up with the rest that vary from a championship english club to northern league

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18928

frankie1966 wrote:

Never thought he wanted to sell the club, I said so in the past, its too much of a status symbol for him to walk away from. The bloke is arrogant and thinks only of himself. Today is a black day for Hartlepool United football club and all its fans.

basically he wants to be in charge but use money from others to keep him there. don,t we all want that.

billinghampoolie1908 · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:52 pm **Posts:** 4375

accrington fan wrote:

frankie1966 wrote:

Never thought he wanted to sell the club, I said so in the past, its too much of a status symbol for him to walk away from. The bloke is arrogant and thinks only of himself. Today is a black day for Hartlepool United football club and all its fans.

basically he wants to be in charge but use money from others to keep him there. don,t we all want that.

Think thats probobly nail on head.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18928

Ozzy Saltburn wrote:

[

Intersting but a lot of opinion presented as if they were facts
1. He said he would sell following the abuse he and his family suffered after the Crawley home loss not because "results were going against us"
2. The latest manager sacked (Askey) was widely supported by the fans as he came close to rescuing the club from relegation and made an excellent start to the season in the NL. Would any chairman have refused to give him a lenghty contract. Supposing Raj had refused and Askey had walked. I guess that would have been Raj's fault?
3. Is it being claimed that Challinor having signed a contract to stay at Pools then left because Raj didnt give him a decent budget? Was his departure nothing to do with the huge salary the millinaire Stockport owner was able to offer him?
4. "Burning through half a dozen managers". Debatable. Hignett sacked so Challinor could be appointed: Dont recall many fans objecting to that "burn". Lee appointed after Challinor left for Stockport and was initially successful particularly in the cup competitions but after the Rotheram defeat everuthing went stale and lethargy set in. Few poolies complained when Lee was sacked as we were treading water. Hartley was obviously an horrendous error both in the time it took to appoint him and the abysmal quality of the players he was allowed to sign. The Hartley debacle is to some extent, the reason we are where we are. Raj has freely admitted to this howling error, no excuse but he said he will try to put it right and I presume he thought Askey was the man to do it. Prior to Askey was Keith Curle, an experienced FL manager, but he was unable to repair the damage caused by Hartley. Once again he was hardly "burned through" with most of us calling for his sacking. Finally Askey turned out not to be the answer despite the positive impression he made when Pools were in the FL and the first few weeks of the NL season.
5. Raj has made serious errors but without him we may not have a club to support at all. He was the owner when we had that wonderful day at Bristol. Raj is wealthy but not a multi millionaire but under his stewardship, the bills are paid and the club appears to be in a stable situation financially. Clearly we need success on the field and the appointment of Kevin Phillips and the recent player acquistions suggest he is striving for this. Why the heck shouldnt he go and watch the Boro if he wants to? Why is this action singled out as some sort of crime? " he would rather watch the Boro than his own club" that is a particularly vindictive interpretation.

I realize this issue has now become tribal and nothing I write will make a jot of difference to the attitudes of those who have their knives out but having got it off my chest I feel a lot better.

plus who is to say that the consortium would not have made their own mistakes along the way either. its as if everything will be rosy once raj leaves the club. it seems for some its raj bad and anyone unknown being good without real proof of that happening. i might have been more in favour of him leaving if the consortium were talking in billions rather than the amount they mentioned which is the bare minimum even for a club of our size to make wholesale changes in 2024.

PTID · **Joined:** Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:07 pm **Posts:** 3928

Nail on the head there.

My view is certainly not as a fan of Raj, just my perspective on what's been released by both parties. How does any of us know he's moved the goalposts, hasn't released full accounts, or is asking an inflated price?

And I ask the same question, having not seen full accounts and not having a business plan for the club but making an offer regardless doesn't look like the actions of a credible international investment group does it?
They'd want to go over absolutely every penny that's gone into or out of for a number of years - it's called due diligence and is an absolute obligation to their own share holders. Real business is nothing like the simplified versions that so.e on here have. Any answers as to why they would therefore make what effectively would be a blind offer? It doesn't make sense.

Pooly_Imp · **Joined:** Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:36 pm **Posts:** 2527

accrington fan wrote:

Ozzy Saltburn wrote:

[

Intersting but a lot of opinion presented as if they were facts
1. He said he would sell following the abuse he and his family suffered after the Crawley home loss not because "results were going against us"
2. The latest manager sacked (Askey) was widely supported by the fans as he came close to rescuing the club from relegation and made an excellent start to the season in the NL. Would any chairman have refused to give him a lenghty contract. Supposing Raj had refused and Askey had walked. I guess that would have been Raj's fault?
3. Is it being claimed that Challinor having signed a contract to stay at Pools then left because Raj didnt give him a decent budget? Was his departure nothing to do with the huge salary the millinaire Stockport owner was able to offer him?
4. "Burning through half a dozen managers". Debatable. Hignett sacked so Challinor could be appointed: Dont recall many fans objecting to that "burn". Lee appointed after Challinor left for Stockport and was initially successful particularly in the cup competitions but after the Rotheram defeat everuthing went stale and lethargy set in. Few poolies complained when Lee was sacked as we were treading water. Hartley was obviously an horrendous error both in the time it took to appoint him and the abysmal quality of the players he was allowed to sign. The Hartley debacle is to some extent, the reason we are where we are. Raj has freely admitted to this howling error, no excuse but he said he will try to put it right and I presume he thought Askey was the man to do it. Prior to Askey was Keith Curle, an experienced FL manager, but he was unable to repair the damage caused by Hartley. Once again he was hardly "burned through" with most of us calling for his sacking. Finally Askey turned out not to be the answer despite the positive impression he made when Pools were in the FL and the first few weeks of the NL season.
5. Raj has made serious errors but without him we may not have a club to support at all. He was the owner when we had that wonderful day at Bristol. Raj is wealthy but not a multi millionaire but under his stewardship, the bills are paid and the club appears to be in a stable situation financially. Clearly we need success on the field and the appointment of Kevin Phillips and the recent player acquistions suggest he is striving for this. Why the heck shouldnt he go and watch the Boro if he wants to? Why is this action singled out as some sort of crime? " he would rather watch the Boro than his own club" that is a particularly vindictive interpretation.

I realize this issue has now become tribal and nothing I write will make a jot of difference to the attitudes of those who have their knives out but having got it off my chest I feel a lot better.

plus who is to say that the consortium would not have made their own mistakes along the way either. its as if everything will be rosy once raj leaves the club. it seems for some its raj bad and anyone unknown being good without real proof of that happening. i might have been more in favour of him leaving if the consortium were talking in billions rather than the amount they mentioned which is the bare minimum even for a club of our size to make wholesale changes in 2024.

The club is breaking records on levels of shitness every single week. I ask again, how bad does it have to get?

billygoatblue · **Joined:** Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:30 am **Posts:** 606

Pooly_Imp wrote:

accrington fan wrote:

Ozzy Saltburn wrote:

[

Intersting but a lot of opinion presented as if they were facts
1. He said he would sell following the abuse he and his family suffered after the Crawley home loss not because "results were going against us"
2. The latest manager sacked (Askey) was widely supported by the fans as he came close to rescuing the club from relegation and made an excellent start to the season in the NL. Would any chairman have refused to give him a lenghty contract. Supposing Raj had refused and Askey had walked. I guess that would have been Raj's fault?
3. Is it being claimed that Challinor having signed a contract to stay at Pools then left because Raj didnt give him a decent budget? Was his departure nothing to do with the huge salary the millinaire Stockport owner was able to offer him?
4. "Burning through half a dozen managers". Debatable. Hignett sacked so Challinor could be appointed: Dont recall many fans objecting to that "burn". Lee appointed after Challinor left for Stockport and was initially successful particularly in the cup competitions but after the Rotheram defeat everuthing went stale and lethargy set in. Few poolies complained when Lee was sacked as we were treading water. Hartley was obviously an horrendous error both in the time it took to appoint him and the abysmal quality of the players he was allowed to sign. The Hartley debacle is to some extent, the reason we are where we are. Raj has freely admitted to this howling error, no excuse but he said he will try to put it right and I presume he thought Askey was the man to do it. Prior to Askey was Keith Curle, an experienced FL manager, but he was unable to repair the damage caused by Hartley. Once again he was hardly "burned through" with most of us calling for his sacking. Finally Askey turned out not to be the answer despite the positive impression he made when Pools were in the FL and the first few weeks of the NL season.
5. Raj has made serious errors but without him we may not have a club to support at all. He was the owner when we had that wonderful day at Bristol. Raj is wealthy but not a multi millionaire but under his stewardship, the bills are paid and the club appears to be in a stable situation financially. Clearly we need success on the field and the appointment of Kevin Phillips and the recent player acquistions suggest he is striving for this. Why the heck shouldnt he go and watch the Boro if he wants to? Why is this action singled out as some sort of crime? " he would rather watch the Boro than his own club" that is a particularly vindictive interpretation.

I realize this issue has now become tribal and nothing I write will make a jot of difference to the attitudes of those who have their knives out but having got it off my chest I feel a lot better.

plus who is to say that the consortium would not have made their own mistakes along the way either. its as if everything will be rosy once raj leaves the club. it seems for some its raj bad and anyone unknown being good without real proof of that happening. i might have been more in favour of him leaving if the consortium were talking in billions rather than the amount they mentioned which is the bare minimum even for a club of our size to make wholesale changes in 2024.

The club is breaking records on levels of shitness every single week. I ask again, how bad does it have to get?

Totally agree, what league do we have to drop to before people decide taking a chance on someone else maybe worth the risk.

PTID · **Joined:** Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:07 pm **Posts:** 3928

But we the people don't decide if we want to take a chance on somebody else, the only people who can decide are the seller and the buyer.

billygoatblue · **Joined:** Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:30 am **Posts:** 606

PTID wrote:

But we the people don't decide if we want to take a chance on somebody else, the only people who can decide are the seller and the buyer.

You must have missed all those better the devil you know comments then.

billinghampoolie1908 · **Joined:** Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:52 pm **Posts:** 4375

billygoatblue wrote:

Pooly_Imp wrote:

accrington fan wrote:

Ozzy Saltburn wrote:

[

Intersting but a lot of opinion presented as if they were facts
1. He said he would sell following the abuse he and his family suffered after the Crawley home loss not because "results were going against us"
2. The latest manager sacked (Askey) was widely supported by the fans as he came close to rescuing the club from relegation and made an excellent start to the season in the NL. Would any chairman have refused to give him a lenghty contract. Supposing Raj had refused and Askey had walked. I guess that would have been Raj's fault?
3. Is it being claimed that Challinor having signed a contract to stay at Pools then left because Raj didnt give him a decent budget? Was his departure nothing to do with the huge salary the millinaire Stockport owner was able to offer him?
4. "Burning through half a dozen managers". Debatable. Hignett sacked so Challinor could be appointed: Dont recall many fans objecting to that "burn". Lee appointed after Challinor left for Stockport and was initially successful particularly in the cup competitions but after the Rotheram defeat everuthing went stale and lethargy set in. Few poolies complained when Lee was sacked as we were treading water. Hartley was obviously an horrendous error both in the time it took to appoint him and the abysmal quality of the players he was allowed to sign. The Hartley debacle is to some extent, the reason we are where we are. Raj has freely admitted to this howling error, no excuse but he said he will try to put it right and I presume he thought Askey was the man to do it. Prior to Askey was Keith Curle, an experienced FL manager, but he was unable to repair the damage caused by Hartley. Once again he was hardly "burned through" with most of us calling for his sacking. Finally Askey turned out not to be the answer despite the positive impression he made when Pools were in the FL and the first few weeks of the NL season.
5. Raj has made serious errors but without him we may not have a club to support at all. He was the owner when we had that wonderful day at Bristol. Raj is wealthy but not a multi millionaire but under his stewardship, the bills are paid and the club appears to be in a stable situation financially. Clearly we need success on the field and the appointment of Kevin Phillips and the recent player acquistions suggest he is striving for this. Why the heck shouldnt he go and watch the Boro if he wants to? Why is this action singled out as some sort of crime? " he would rather watch the Boro than his own club" that is a particularly vindictive interpretation.

I realize this issue has now become tribal and nothing I write will make a jot of difference to the attitudes of those who have their knives out but having got it off my chest I feel a lot better.

plus who is to say that the consortium would not have made their own mistakes along the way either. its as if everything will be rosy once raj leaves the club. it seems for some its raj bad and anyone unknown being good without real proof of that happening. i might have been more in favour of him leaving if the consortium were talking in billions rather than the amount they mentioned which is the bare minimum even for a club of our size to make wholesale changes in 2024.

The club is breaking records on levels of shitness every single week. I ask again, how bad does it have to get?

Totally agree, what league do we have to drop to before people decide taking a chance on someone else maybe worth the risk.

You can keep going as you are, which think we would all agree isnt great or change have Hartlepool people involved in the club and if it goes to shit or they lied about the money, they would probobly be hung like the monkey.

Now what i have to ask myself is why would Hartlepool people fans lie to their own? If 14 million is a figment of their imaginations then just to please everyone, say look we havent a pot to piss in but where damn sure we can do better.

14 million is actually small fry when you look at Wrexham, raj is probobly worth 3 to 5 million on his own i think some are being put off because they think no one can ever invest in us like that.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18928

PTID wrote:

But we the people don't decide if we want to take a chance on somebody else, the only people who can decide are the seller and the buyer.

exactly. your brain will go round in circles and explode because you have no say in it. if therewas a good reason never to get involved in supporting a football team this take over thing is the best one. its bad enough watching a poor performance then this is thrown at us. does make a saturday in middleton grange getting more exciting by the week and far less stressful.

thebigdog · **Joined:** Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:49 pm **Posts:** 1271

Snowy wrote:

KeithNobbsBigToe wrote:

thebigdog wrote:

Saw this comment on Facebook, the internet thingy nobody uses, and thought it was a decent summary…

The guy had zero intention of selling from the outset. He’s spent most of the “ negotiating period “ hiring and firing staff, saddling the club with more debt, and it’s clear he only offered to sell the club to take the heat off himself when results started to go against us.

Look at the facts, he’s burned through more than half a dozen managers, countless CEOs, numerous Heads of Recruitment. The narrative is always the same , the last guy was a mistake but I’ve got it right this time.

Every season is the same , empty promises to sell season tickets, good players leave , recruitment is last minute and it’s usually players in the cheap or kids on loan.

By Christmas the latest manager he’s given a 2 or 3 year contract to has been sacked and Singh claims he’s riding to the rescue in January.

It’s not working.

The only manager able to buck this trend was Challinor and what happened ? He was promised a budget for the EFL as reward for getting us promoted and then Singh by his own admission refused to give him it.

Nobody seems able to work for the guy for any period of time which is why the club is in a mess.

Look at Tuesday night, beaten at home by a team bottom of the League on a pitch that looks worse than it has in 30 years due to a lack of investment. A threadbare squad playing for one of the best supported clubs in non league football.

He now seems to be blaming the Consortium for being unable to sign players - an incredible statement . Why weren’t players signed over the Summer then when they were desperately needed instead of kids on loan ?

If he wanted stability why did he spit his dummy out and publicly state he was pulling funding from February onwards ???

A club saddled with debt that has been appallingly mis managed by an owner that would rather watch the Boro than his own club.

The club will go precisely nowhere with this man at the helm , any time we do have success he will take the money rather than reinvest it.

A really sad day for the club. Then again if he wasn’t willing to sell the club to Reynolds and Mcelhenny you have to ask who he would sell it to.

The answer is clearly nobody.

He now needs to invest in the club or stop making pathetic threats to kill the club if the fans don’t back him.

Careful

The happy clappers won't like this

Why? Read the first line and sailed on by…….. yawn2

Good, got to be careful with your dial up speeds.

PTID · **Joined:** Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:07 pm **Posts:** 3928

Maybe Raj never wanted to sell, but wanted to be able to say he's keeping us afloat as there's nobody else willing to? Now his bluff has been called and offers made he has realised that he could lose his pet project and any kudos that goes with being sole owner of the club.
So having turned down the offer he's realised that to appease the fans he'd better make some changes - new manager, 3 new players and maybe more on the way?
Who knows, all we can do is back the team and hope that the new signings bring some better results.

loyal_fan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:15 pm **Posts:** 3689

PTID wrote:

Maybe Raj never wanted to sell, but wanted to be able to say he's keeping us afloat as there's nobody else willing to? Now his bluff has been called and offers made he has realised that he could lose his pet project and any kudos that goes with being sole owner of the club.
So having turned down the offer he's realised that to appease the fans he'd better make some changes - new manager, 3 new players and maybe more on the way?
Who knows, all we can do is back the team and hope that the new signings bring some better results.

If thats all he is doing it for, whats to stop him stopping doing it again once the fans are 'off his back'

Raj put money in when no one else does and for that he does deserve thanks and respect.....but he doesnt deserve unquestioning loyalty and acquiescence to every decision he makes.
Despite good intentions the club and team are at practically the lowest ebb in their history, and arguably not much better off than when he took over--if we have to pay him back before he sells.
For that the very least we need is a plan from him on how he improves this, with some genuine accountability to go with it.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36396

thebigdog wrote:

Snowy wrote:

KeithNobbsBigToe wrote:

thebigdog wrote:

Saw this comment on Facebook, the internet thingy nobody uses, and thought it was a decent summary…

The guy had zero intention of selling from the outset. He’s spent most of the “ negotiating period “ hiring and firing staff, saddling the club with more debt, and it’s clear he only offered to sell the club to take the heat off himself when results started to go against us.

Look at the facts, he’s burned through more than half a dozen managers, countless CEOs, numerous Heads of Recruitment. The narrative is always the same , the last guy was a mistake but I’ve got it right this time.

Every season is the same , empty promises to sell season tickets, good players leave , recruitment is last minute and it’s usually players in the cheap or kids on loan.

By Christmas the latest manager he’s given a 2 or 3 year contract to has been sacked and Singh claims he’s riding to the rescue in January.

It’s not working.

The only manager able to buck this trend was Challinor and what happened ? He was promised a budget for the EFL as reward for getting us promoted and then Singh by his own admission refused to give him it.

Nobody seems able to work for the guy for any period of time which is why the club is in a mess.

Look at Tuesday night, beaten at home by a team bottom of the League on a pitch that looks worse than it has in 30 years due to a lack of investment. A threadbare squad playing for one of the best supported clubs in non league football.

He now seems to be blaming the Consortium for being unable to sign players - an incredible statement . Why weren’t players signed over the Summer then when they were desperately needed instead of kids on loan ?

If he wanted stability why did he spit his dummy out and publicly state he was pulling funding from February onwards ???

A club saddled with debt that has been appallingly mis managed by an owner that would rather watch the Boro than his own club.

The club will go precisely nowhere with this man at the helm , any time we do have success he will take the money rather than reinvest it.

A really sad day for the club. Then again if he wasn’t willing to sell the club to Reynolds and Mcelhenny you have to ask who he would sell it to.

The answer is clearly nobody.

He now needs to invest in the club or stop making pathetic threats to kill the club if the fans don’t back him.

Careful

The happy clappers won't like this

Why? Read the first line and sailed on by…….. yawn2

Good, got to be careful with your dial up speeds.

With your long standing experience of it you should know.

Stalemate on Takover.

Gadgies online