Speaking of bollocks Mr I...

"This is true. I talked to Raj back in 2018. We were i think the only people that showed proof of funds. Raj was the only person at that time who was both willing and able to save the club. For that he will have mine and should have the respect of others. Mistakes have been made since but these are the facts. Everyone makes mistakes, we are all human."

As we all know Mr I you were closely involved in what happened in 2018, can I ask whether you have ever heard of this Stephen Paylor character, who claims to be part of the HUST consortium, and is spouting off on Facebook from the US, the latest comment is copied above.

After giving details of the consortium's alleged "offer", and that Mr Singh had rejected it, as you can see he is now claiming only he and Mr Singh had any interest and the money available back in 2018.

A simple Yes or No will do.

That wont be believed though.

We are not distressed though we have been told by raj that we are so much better than we were, Hobin said at one point the club was almost debt free. So there wont be much debt will there?

Oh hang on.

None of us know the figures, it’s all just what people on the outside want it to be.

It would be very surprising if we were debt free, I'd be surprised if any full time professional club below the Championship is debt free.
Regardless, it looks as if there may be a bit of an impasse between buyer and seller. Hopefully an agreement will be reached although I'd imagine resolution will be more difficult dealing with a consortium rather than a single buyer.
In the meantime all we can do is wait and see, any of us blaming either side can be nothing other than blind speculation and achieves nothing. He said, she said, blah de blah

News to me Mr Waddell,

I had never heard of the man until last week. There was absolutely no other serious offer around. I do remember that there were a number of enquiries to the solicitors handling the interest but none had the funds to take it past an initial enquiry and we’re not taking seriously.

Thanks for that Mr I.
Suspected as much....another Walter Mitty.

really hope the situation gets sorted out sooner rather than later and we get back to what is the reason all fans go to a match for. team affairs and how we are doing on the pitch. not bothered who owns the club as long as mistakes are at a minimum level with an average investment into the club. do not know which is worst, being a wrexham or struggling for pennies. both have problems even if different ones.

If possible needs to be a 100% takeover.
See we're we are now when you drip feed previous regimes.
Maybe we are debt free and Raj wants a big redundancy in installments. He didn't come here to lose money. Ground ownership n millhouse masterplan would of been on his Menu for sure.
Eventually it will all come out in the wash.
Especially with this SM malarkey n tad to much alcohol.
Hopefully again is getting used.
We need positive action.
UTP.

Depends what we are being asked to believe.
I don't think Raj has transferred any money by way of a loan from his personal bank account but I do believe money has been loaned to the club by the group of companies he owns. Wasn't it shown as such on the limited accounts published.
I don't believe he has actually gifted the club anything.
However the Consortium and maybe HUST, as an alleged part of the consortium, having presumably seen the books, will be able to reveal all in due course by informing the fans of the Community Club they propose to create what is actually owed to who. Depending of course on how transparent they intend to be, if the takeover is successful.
Before any light is able to be shone on these matters, an agreement between the two parties has to be reached.

Correct Raj Singhs companies loaned money to Hartlepool United. You can see this exact amount in the older accounts, it is nowhere near the £1 million a year you have quoted above. You can also see that he has taken out £800,000 in the last published accounts, whether this was to repay his loans or to avoid paying tax on a profit is something we won't know. We also know he has been paying himself management fees which were originally £30,000 but shot up to £150,000 when we got promoted to league 2. Either way it's unlikely we as a club will need the £1 million a season you quoted above to keep going or even challenge for the playoffs in this division.

We slowly getting there.
UTP.

Where have I said Raj or his companies have been putting a million a year into the club????
Where have I said a million a year needs to be put into the club???

What I said was the two million that the consortium are alleged to be prepared to invest was not enough.
The reason I say that is not enough is because I believe the new owners should start with a clean sheet and that means buying Raj out and paying the outstanding debts because that way the revenue the club receive will have a chance to achieve the maximum effect and not be denied the use of it all because of debt repayments which I believe are holding the club back.
That would be starting off on the right foot in my opinion but it would also get rid of most , if not all, of the alleged two million.
If the consortium haven't got the resources to start as I suggest I believe they will struggle however good their intentions are.
The other factor is I am basing my opinion on the funds needed to reach the EFL and be able to compete there.
I don't think starting off with any sort of financial millstone around the club's neck is a good idea. Others may disagree and I accept that but our fan base want more than self sufficiency.

I felt it was insinuated by you saying £2 million was not enough etc and referencing IOR. If you didn't mean it in this way then fine ignore my above comments. With reference to your second paragraph:
The debts we have are mostly to Raj Singh. The money owed to Sage is (I believe and very happy to be corrected) only payable upon success of the football club e.g. promotions. The rest of the debt is the Sport England loan which Raj himself took out against the club and the money owed to him.
We'd all prefer the club to be debt free when taken over but I doubt this is likely to happen as would rely on either an extremely rich owner coming in, paying off all of Raj's money and the £1 million owed to Sport England or Raj making certain concessions and effectively writing off a lot of the money owed to him, something which I also believe is extremely unlikely to happen. The club has been up for sale for 9 months officially and there is no sign of any extremely rich individuals coming in who would be able to give us a clean slate, the only other option considering Raj has stated he will be leaving this season is the consortium. If they can't agree a deal with or without debt and Raj pulls out then we will be back in 2017/18 needing a saviour who will once again have to agree to debt obligations.

Yeah I thought that was the impression you were getting which is why i went into the depth of explanation as to why I don't think that two mill is enough.
The rich owner scenario is the ideal one and I want the ideal one, not some watered down version but we'll get what we get and I've said often enough that there wasn't a queue breaking their necks to take us on. We all have to accept that but I am more than slightly worried.

On the takeover I think we ought to keep a fair balance, Why say if Raj pulls out???? Why not also say if the consortium pulls out or preferably say if an agreement can't be reached.
We have an offer on the table, nothing more. Raj will either accept it or he will say it's not enough. If he accepts it all is complete, if he doesn't the consortium have to consider whether to increase it or not. If they do increase it then the ball is back with Raj, if they don't then it is they who have called the halt. No blame should be attached to backing off by either side. They simply failed to agree. Let's hope they find common ground. And what will then be the more important question which is "will the fans be happy with what ensues or will we be back in a similar boat with the new owners?" After all there are still a lot of questions to be asked and you can bet your bottom dollar that those questions will be asked, if I know my fellow Poolies. In fact they're asking now in an attempt to figure out the consortium. No one wants to be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. I think we deserve a break from all that.
Let's hope we get one.

On Sage I've always had the impression that the debt had to be paid by annual instalments, and that any non budgeted income such as cup money or transfer money had to be handed over to expedite the reduction of the debt. I also might have misunderstood that side of it. It would explain where some of our extra cash went to though. Mr I might know for definite.
Keep taking the pills.

I wonder if the conversation has been had as by the 2 working together. Raj and a consortium ? both large enough financial backings. Or is this just absolute madness and would be like trying to get Gaza in bed with Israel ?

I think lately more are more people are listening to comments by insiders on how well the club is run, pleased for the owner ( from LL). The club worked quickly, the process was smooth, complimentary to the owner (KP).
Then the fact that decisions are being made like new manager, deadwood being dumped, new faces that make a difference.
On top of that comments on the consortium like questions on their financial clout etc.
Could it be that fans are warming to Raj staying if he continues to listen to whoever is prompting him.
I wonder.
Won't please some but our club comes first.

I never wanted him to go. True he made a monumental feck up with Hartley but he admits it, and wants to put it right. A lot of damage was done which has proved difficult for everyone who cares about the club.Hoping the arrival of KP is the start of a much needed improvement.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him jump into bed with the consortium and stay on for at least a while.
Those who have been ultra critical of him might just have to accept that he was the only option 5 years ago and might be part of the only option going forward. If this consortium bid goes tits up we know there's nobody else, Raj had to go to HUST to try to rustle up a buyer because there was nobody in 9 months willing or able to make a bid.

If Raj had replaced DC with a decent appointment - still spent the cash he has now on the recruitment and sacking of managers we probably wouldnt be in this position and would actually all be happy with him. Still be in the league and probably pushing from promotion out of that one too. Just a few silly mistakes by him thats unfortunately cost him the fans.

Because I'm not talking about if Raj doesn't accept the offer I'm talking about if Raj stops funding the club. He's said both publicly and privately (to the trust) that he only wants to be here short term and will stop funding the club e.g. pull out, at a certain point. You're right, if there's no agreement then we won't be able to know who the blame lies with.
I think the issue with Raj staying is plenty of fans are extremely disillusioned with the current running of the club and there are local businesses who won't put money into the club due to the way he/the club have treated them. There's nothing any fan can do if the man decides he wants to turn it around and stay. If he does do this and changes a lot of how the club is run to put us on much more stable footing infrastructure wise etc then I will come back to this and praise him for it but until then we shall see.

Derwent and several others i could name here seem to work for Raj? Having said that i am close to certain that Raj supports this crazy club of ours financially while we all snarl and snap at him for his errors over time. How will it end, debt and deficits usually lead to administration or a wealthy benefactor. In the words of Paylor.

'so what is the solution Gary? If nobody has 5 to 10 million what do we do? Just let the club fold? This isn't Hollywood and the consortium isn't Ryan Reynolds. This is Hartlepool and we need to solve our own problems not just dream of some rich saviour like a high maintenance gold digger wife.

qoute 'I totally agree with you Gary but from what I see that solution you mention and the wealth needed for it doesn't exist. The consortium aren't 'jumped up'. I went to games as long ago as the 80s, was born in Cameron's hospital and lived in Owton Manor Lane. Half of my family are from the town. Were just a group of people from the town that are willing to do their best. Not sure what else can be done. If you know a few millionaires from the town ready to plough in more money please tell them to get in touch with me'

It doesn't seem to me that the consortium where anything other than a group of fans that read about Raj going to walk away soon and did what was needed to be ready to be there to make sure it didn't go to Administration. Its not like a group of billionaires from saudi arabia. Its just local people stepping up in case needed.

More posts from the same thread-
Frank Coull Hello Frank, I bet you have seen some change over the years. Would love to hear your memories of the club of the past. Did everyone work to encourage or destroy the players back then? I remember the abuse John Borthwick got in the 80s. Made me sad for him at the time. In answer to your question, I really don't know. We were told the owner was looking to get out and would only fund the club up to a point. Seemed like a desperate situation was coming up so a group of us quickly came together with what we were told was needed. Within a week or so of getting any details we made an offer and it was seemingly not enough. I suppose that in itself is good news as it suggests that Raj is happy to continue funding the club. Raj isn't an enemy here and i haven't spoken to him directly in 6 years. He was the only person back then that was able and willing to save the club. There have been mistakes since but everyone makes mistakes. We are all human. Love to hear from you Frank. The past is too easily forgotten. I'm sure you know what I mean.

The consortium and these posts don't seem at all to be Raj v them. The guy that went public has been pretty positive about Raj. Either way i dont think taking sides makes sense. We all want what is best for the club and its clear to me that the club isn't going out of business since there are obviously people willing to pay to take it over and an owner who values it more than that. Surely, it means Raj isn't going to dump us in Administration and get nothing when he has an actual cash offer to walk away. Lets just support the team and manager. Its all we can do anyway.

Hey if he jumps into bed with the consortium no one will have a problem with that as long as he/they treats us like a proper football club again,

in respect of the Sage debt, I didn't see the final agreement but I understood it to be along the lines that you stated.

Without doubt Raj Singh put cash in on day one. If you recall, wages couldn't be paid and Coxberg had drained every penny they could including loans from Sage. Those funds were from Prestige group by way of an inter company loan - not a gift. They then appeared on the balance sheet as debt. All this is perfectly fair and above board. In the good seasons; promotion and cup runs, some of that debt was paid back, 800k by all accounts. That still leaves £1m odd in debt not including the Sage money still outstanding. So I suspect that the £2m won't be a million miles out if you roll everything together. Now how much RS is prepared to write off seems to me to be the crux of the negotiations.

I think its worth repeating that Raj Singh got into this honorably and with the best of intentions. He is a wealthy man but not a gazillionaire. His care home group will have take a big hit through covid and he has kept the club afloat as much as his personal finances allow. I really don't believe that he deserves the abose that has been thrown at him. He stepped in when nobody else was interested. He is clearly trying to get out as clean as possible and he will take a financial hit, the question is simply how much of a hit he is willing to take.

By the way, I can't say that I am comfortable with these 'distressed company specialist'. It says two things to me. Firstly, the consortium don't have the money to do this without backing and we will again be in hock to a Sage like company.

Have you seriously just said how well the club is run? The club is in debt, its near the bottom of the conference one of our lowest positions ever, its just taken weeks to appoint yet another manager, we dont seem to be able to compete with many clubs for transfers, unless they are injury prone not playing for the club or just scottish. The floodlights are quite poor, the club bars dont seem to get a handle on how to serve more than 10 fans, the ground is in need of sprucing up. A lot of staff have left, one lass behind the bar had to take the club to a tribunal or whatever it was for wages, well run? Seriously?

Just because people employed by the club now say how great things are, doesnt mean they really are. Lets see how long they survive there.

Unfortunately, this sounds like any company or organisation people work for. The place I worked at was like Pools, then I left and the new place was better, until just before Christmas, where a Sh*t Tornado blew through and it's all falling apart spectacularly, however the company is still better where I was and ran better

Thanks for that. I knew I hadn't dreamt that non budgeted profits were in the deal with Sage somewhere. I agree on your concerns regarding the financial clout of the consortium and I'm beginning to think Raj is as well. I am sure these people have good intentions and are passionate about Pools BUT that is not enough as it doesn't pay the bills. We have to think carefully about this without emotion.

No I said LL said that the club is well run And KP said it was all done quickly.
KP also said there was a budget and so he must be happy with it or why would he take the job. The club was in debt before Raj came in and is still in debt but that debt is being managed because the club is paying it's way. However if you succeed in hounding Raj out like you've been trying to do for two years or more and nobody else is willing or able to take over then we are in the smelly stuff. I think we need to know a lot more about this consortium before we can feel comfortable.
You just want rid of Raj and that is swaying you to put your trust blindly in the consortium. Me, I need to know more.

Unless he is reading this message board or his friend is reporting back to him, then there is no hounding him out. Just because a few of us want him out on a message board its hardly hounding. Raj is leaving he has said that, so if a group of people with Hartlepool connections want to shaft us so be it, id prefer to take my chances with them, then continually watch us go from one embarassment to another. They have already provided raj with proof of funds, so if raj trusts them then we have too.

I have no doubt that Pools owners and players read the board

Mr Robbie, I do NOT work for Raj, never have and never will. I have never spoken to the man or been in his company apart from there have been times when we have both been in the VIC at the same time.
My stance with Raj has been repeated ad nauseam on this board but for you I'll have another go.
Until another option turns up and successfully takes over the club Raj is all we've got.
On top of that I am the forum's Moderator and as such have to protect the bunker from any sort of potential danger that could threaten us.
What I personally think of Raj is kept under my hat and will stay there.
What anybody else posts about him is judged purely and simply on whether it is a threat to the bunker should he take exception and sue us or get us closed down.
I hope you get my drift.

Seriously?

Hounding is hounding whatever route you take to do it. The club do monitor social media and have threatened to take out proceedings in the past. In the IOR days they asked for the personal details of certain people on here and I am absolutely certain it wasn't to put them on the clubs christmas card list.

Amazing isn't it Snowy. So it's alright to be shafted by a Poolie. This man has an absolute need to have a word with himself. Tries to portray his desire for the best for the club but is willing to open the door to somebody with a knife in his hand as long as he is a Poolie.
Incredible.

Crucially they haven't agreed an acceptable price yet, and regardless of if Raj sells the new owner would have to earn the trust of supporters.
If Raj decides he just wants shot he may just take the money and run wether he trusts the buyers or not. So I'll be very wary in the short term at least.

Yep Raj said he would keep the club ticking over until a suitable buyer was found. If he did get pissed off and decided to take the money and run, who could blame him. That is what concerns me as well, which is why I pleaded with people to back off him. Some people just can't control themselves, they just keep attacking him.

This is true. Many times I had demands from Ken Jong H demanding emails and names. I always resisted but the threats were there.

He’s a grown bloke, an extremely rich business man, in charge of a currently deadbeat national league football club. I’m sure (or at least he should be able to!) he can hack a bit of grief from his paying customers. Football conversation is driven by fans, opinions both positive and negative. Ups and downs, mainly based on what’s occurring on the pitch.

Imagine if he was in charge of the Boro, Chelsea, Man United… now that’s a lot more grief than little old Pools!

Whilst I appreciate your point that Raj is all we have. It’s impossible to deny that since promotion from NL, post Dave Challinor, we’ve been an abomination of a football club, strategically and in results on the pitch. I appreciate him saving us. I’m also keeping everything crossed that his tenure is at an end so we can all move on…

I do caveat this that personal attacks etc oversteps the line… but anything football related (performances, recruitment quality, managerial appointments, strategy…), you’re in the game for a reason! Everybody is criticising everybody and everything in this sport. It’s just football at the end of the day (cliche alert!)

Seriously?[/quote

Unbelievable its bad enough being shafted by Southern tw*ts. It would be the lowest ever if we were to be screwed over by people who claim to be supporters.
Shows what utter blind hatred you have for Raj, or you're a closet Loid.

More fool the players if they do - be like chefs checking up to see how many of their customers are complaining about food poisoning.

In the immortal words of Eric Morecambe re Des O’Connor - ‘I Like Him!’. Before the anti-Raj brigade take up arms I concede that ‘like’ may be too strong a description. ‘Respect’ is probably more appropriate when considering that Raj did save our club from almost certain oblivion. Since then I believe that Raj has not helped himself in the popularity stakes either through mistakes, eg the episode and fall out with DC, misjudgments ie the horrendous appointment of Hartley or simply taking his eye off the ball - which may also of course have been partly behind Hartley’s appointment coupled with the troupe of no hopers subsequently assembled.

With the appointment of KP, the rumoured influx of new (and hopefully better quality) players coupled with Lennie working between KP and Raj, it could be that a corner has actually been turned and Raj may yet have one final opportunity to redeem himself with the fan base and get Pools back where they belong. (Dons tin helmet).

Let's be honest we'd all probably read them ourselves if we were players. The problem I'd have would be not responding to negative posts about me - respect in that regard to Mr Wallace ref my dogshit comment on another thread.

For me the damage is already done. That’s my personal opinion. Far far too much has gone on. If there’s an acceptable offer on the table, it’s better for all parties concerned that we enter a new era of Pools ownership.

This criticism of Raj started just after getting promotion at Bristol, why….?

Sometimes its better the devil you know I like most have been extremely disappointed with what's gone on since we won the playoffs. But I also believe that people can learn from mistakes and do things better if given the opportunity. I am more than willing to give Raj my backing if he continues to invest and support the club. Why not all wait a few more months before we give a final opinion of Raj. What have we got to lose We have a new manager who was employed by Raj and is getting backed by him according to his own words. Surely we must now wait and see and focus on our club. The grass is not always greener on the other side....just saying like

Because he actually did what he said he'll do. That's to get us back to the EFL, I think a lot of fans got scared

Disagree. The club was pulling in an unbelievable direction after that final. The only criticisms came when we had the transfer windows where we were in for 10x striker and got 1x left back. We lost DC but even then, we had the final vs Rotherham. It was from there that things really started to unfold…