If this consortium doesn’t come through I think we may be better off folding up and starting again….it would be hard but we’d have the ground and some enthusiasm from building something up, right now we are just a zombie club with an albatross of the sage debt on us and an owner who is not interested

Not sure where we go from here, are we going to be reduced to a regional
Club again for the first time since D3 north and south were abolished

The Sage debt is key...expect we still have 1.5 million to repay over the next 8 years ?
Who is going to take that on ...as well as subsidising our yearly deficits ?
Club for sale for 9 months now... and only just got some characters who allegedly have proof of money in the bank.
Or do they??

I advocated this before the Singh takeover but was poo-pooed. Never ignore a poo-poo. I knew a major once, he had ignored his poo-poos. It turned out that the soldier who had poo-pooed him had poo/pooed lots of other officers. In the end we had to disband the entire regiment. Morale completely destroyed…. By Poo-poo!

Well, when it kicks off in the Red Sea and Middle East and Good old Joe is advised to kick the football into touch, Rishi will follow and the last thing we'll see is a bright light and a mushroom cloud.
This will happen as the final whistle goes to confirm our relegation or happens just before the final whistle and we are cheated out of a win and a clean sheet in the league.....

Sage certainly will not want a poo-poo.....will be bending over backwards to avoid a poo-poo??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeF1JO7Ki8E

Does Administration wipe out previous debts.
Can't imagine new owners wanting to drip feed previous cranks.
Be quicker to smash our way back up the pyramid.
Any answers appreciated.

Think we've got to keep clinging on and if we go down maybe with new owners we'd be able to make a fist of getting back up again from NLN.
If we go bust and have to start again we could be in the wilderness for ever, how long since Darlo went pop, or Bury.
Where there's life there's hope, even if the pulse is weak.
Raj and Sage both know that if we go bust they won't get a penny more out of the club and what they've got still invested is lost.

I always got the impression at the time that Raj had done a deal with Sage so that most of the debt was wiped (from papers). But this does not seem the case, if so I'm not sure why he didn't wait until we were in admin before trying to strike a deal with the administrators instead.

Surely the debt was reduced during them 2 seasons in EFL. Cup runs.
Prize money
Tv
Efl
Good support. Etc!
As it stands now my opinion.
Takeover n Administration and finishing 5th bottom evenly balanced.
UTP.

Pretty sure the last published accounts show a substantial profit was made that 'cup run' season, whether this went to pay Raj's loan or Sage debt I do not know.

The annoying thing is even if half of that was reinvested in the team we would still be in the FL and Raj/Sage would have more chance of getting all their money back. Instead we have dwindling crowds and 0% chance of extra revenue from cup runs.

I think he has paid some but not the large amounts some fans are led to believe.

If we cant afford to be a national league club with our support then their comes a time when someone has to make some big decisions on what we do. Stay in debt forever and get beat by all and sundry or stick two fingers up to sage and raj.

I could be dreaming this but im sure i saw something where he paid sage 300 to 400k himself 800k back and we made 800 k

He took on the sage debt 100% guaranteed.
If we go into admin he always has the golden share option as used at Darlo. The only option would be a new club.

If we go into administration the only winners are the administrators who's charges are enormous in most cases.

that would mean a pheonix club. need to look at all of these who might look as if they are doing well playing in leagues well below us but none have got to the level they once where at. i,d go down that route to change things if there was any guarentee of seeing us as a league club ever again. there just isn,t.

Would imagine(without knowing the figures) it will cost considerably more to "Smash our way back" up the leagues
All this would be taken into account by the powers that be.
Raj also knows that if a deal cannot be achieved then HE has most to lose, As new owners can walk in debt free.

A debt free phoenix club has a stadium ready and waiting for £1500 a month and a good fan base. We’d fly up the divisions. Better than watching a terminally ill club hang onto life by its fingernails season after season.

Yeah we could do the same as all those other phoenix clubs who've tore up the Leagues back into the big time.
We need to cling on and survive in this league in the hope of better times ahead.
There's no guarantee of being able to stay at the Vic, nor one that we'd keep a big fan base - I've heard a few lifelong Poolies saying that if we're playing at a lower level than NL then that's it for them.

Don,t trust any council, Let alone Hartlepool.

And doubt club would be debt free for more than about 15mins i would think.

The Sage debt stood at £1.1M in 2017.

In July 2021 the value was £285K and July 2022 it was just £140K.

The amount that is paid each season depends on the clubs success. Given we were relegated and will have made another payment, the value is now likely £0.

No legacy debt.

The only debts are to Raj and £1.3M Covid loan from the Government, thats repayable over 20 seasons and relatively low interest.

As long as Raj isn't unreasonable then its perfect for someone else to come in and take over.

Exactly, Councils will do anything now with their strained finances.

Troubles Me, Prime Land.

If ya saying the debt is likely £0.

How can there still be a debt to Raj.
Sure he said a while back he doesn't want anything for club.
Just new Owners to takeover day to day running costs.

Figures on here will be mostly speculation like.
Not enough debt for Administration is there?
So all opinions n views are still ongoing.

It would be nice to have some clarity over the figures because this whole money business is sometimes held like a gun against your head to stifle debate.

If the consortium are the only interested party and a deal isn't reached, we won't have any option other than to start again will we?
Raj has said his money is going to stop and even if we avoid the drop would we have the required guaranteed amount necessary to start next season?
The end of the club as it stands now would be the finish for me I think, my affiliation is to Pools and having not lived in the town for decades I just can't see me having the motivation to go and watch a probable part time phoenix club playing god awful opposition trying against all the odds to get back to a reasonable level. I know I'm not the only one.
Poolie Till I Die, but not Poolie Phoenix Till I Die.

name all these debt free clubs at our level and above. name a pheonix club that has got back into the league. do not name accrington as they disbanded and then resurrected. it would take us years just to get back to the level of chester. we could do that easily without desruption to the club and the fans.

Years ago a lot of poolies said if we go down to national league thats it for them. I remember we played swansea years ago we could of gone top of league 2 we got 4000. Were getting over that for most games now. If the right people are in charge, fans can see hope and were winning games, even if were top few of national north we will get 3500 to 4000.

Its more likely he doesnt want anything now, or i think someone else would be in the hotseat now.

It wouldnt take long to get back to chesters level at all. Darlo are at chesters level now. If we get screwed over we will start in the old evo stik 2 league. Darlo would go into evo stik 1 next year.

Nothings certain though is it, who knows as a phoenix club how much we'd have to spend, where we'd play, how many would turn up to watch regularly (especially if we didn't get off to a flying start - what are Darlos crowds like now compared to their FL crowds), what calibre of players could we attract, etc etc
Yes we could fly up through the Leagues but there's a possibility that we wouldn't - Darlo were denied promotion due to ground not being g up to standard, could easily happen to us if not allowed use of the Vic.
Way too many variables to forecast what would happen imo.
Cling on to what we've got and hope for the best.

I suspect it won’t be that easy and any drop in form at that level will hit crowds because that’s the point ….when you get down to the die hards.
Does anyone want to wait that long to get back, I expect it could be a long trek back….if ever,…. and we get stuck at that level.

Darlo were in total dissaray and managed it so i cant see why we wouldnt in a proper ground with big support. Thats if the worst happens.

I would think if the consortium doesn't come off and Raj goes without anyone to take over we'd be in total disarray too.
Could a phoenix club get access to and be able to pay the rent and maintenance for the Vic? I certainly can't see crowds of 3500 to 4000 if we drop a level or 2.

I think if we just go down next year but sorted ourselves out a team fighting at the top we would pull in good crowds.

The best scenario for me is we manage to avoid relegation and a takeover happens before the season finishes. Fresh start with new owners, offload the dross that'll be at the end of their contracts, kick on hopefully from there.
Crowds in NLN might not be too badly affected but I know plenty who won't be going regularly, probably as a result of the reduced travelling required.

I applaud your optimism, but it’s getting that team fighting at the top bit that is the problem…..I think we never learned the lesson last time and came down expecting to walk it……people do, it’s just human nature.
I suspect we’d see a fall in attendances if we did go down, at the very least 25% off the gates.
Best avoid it all together but we look like a planes whose wings have fallen off, so the odds ain’t good.

The location for this year's Christmas present.

I can't think of much worse than watching NLN standard football. The tripe we're enduring at NL level is already bad enough, never mind another drop. The concept of dropping a division to start enjoying winning games of football again never really applies to Hartlepool. We'd just tread water in there. We need to survive in this division this year, no more degrading of our standards further than where we are now. We can't allow it to get worse than this. With Mani D coming back in, there has to be enough in our squad to survive in what is a pretty poor NL.

There's a serious upheaval & change required as is very obvious to all of us... the club is heading in one direction & it isn't pretty. I actually thought we were far better positioned than Rochdale to attack the NL positively this year, but got that one completely wrong.

Ronnie Moore? At this point, does it really matter all that much...? The bigger picture is far more significant than yet another Pools manager who will last a few months to a year in charge. Of course, it's a completely temporary solution for the gaffer position, but what proper manager (Sarll, Hurst et all) in their right mind would take our job on at the moment? Give Moore a crack at it & see if he can muster some results better than LL could. All to lose at this point i.e relegation but we're in no position to be selective. Cattermole? Phillips? Moore? All much of a muchness. Uninspiring. But what choice have we got.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see Tommy Miller and Arca coming in.

Has your toilet started leaking?

Since i had a water meter fitted its full of s*it.

I wouldnt be surprised when all of the above turn the manager offer down - we see an ad on facebook asking for some sunday league manager with a coaching badge to come and have a pop for free

Before long might be an ad on here. All you keyboard warriors now is your chance to manage this club. Conditions, allowed to sign any old shite you like as long as they have mustered 10 games a season for the last 3 or 4 years are injury prone, cant get a game for their club or are scottish.

Down the line we will help you out with some loans probobly from the boro or some lad who plays 10 mins then you can send him back.

Dont worry within a month we will make you look a complete mug, but beat oxford city and you can convince some fans the play offs are a realistic shout for 48 hours anyway.

Your sarcasm and dry wit are funny Billingham. At least you have a reality check

Any decent players found to be playing under you shall have an exceptionally long wait to sign a contract, thus giving any club with a few pennies a fair chance to snatch them from under your noses, just so you dont lose your mug status.

Loyal fan.... might as well disband the club.

The irony

Fit them in the executive box, heated of course and even when you’ve had something dodgy the night before you can stay on you seat in full flow and miss none of the action.

Or even a dichotomy, it’s a fine example of the word.

now now Billy, Keyboard warriors. Were you looking in the mirror when that came to mind.