It looks really bleak now, however not that different to before this evening.

Scenario....if we can beat Creepy by a couple of goals that puts us ahead of them on goal difference.

Barrow might be out of play off contention by the time we play them.

Stockport might be out of automatic contention before the last game of the season.

Its clutching at more straws than an exited worzel gummage but its not over yet.

Need to beat Crawley convincingly to have a chance.

PTID

Scoring goals is our problem. So beating Creepy by a couple is a long shot. A couple is probably not enough, three is necessity. Stockport being out of automatic contention is also a problem. Challinor will not rest people, he'll want to go into the playoffs playing a settled team.
But still wishing/hoping.

I know, just trying to find positives. We have scored more goals than most teams in the bottom half of the table, more than Barrow even who sit 9th. We have only scored 8 less than Leyton Orient. Scored more than Barrow, Sutton, Grimsby, Tranmere, Doncaster, Walsall, Crewe, Gillingham, Newport, Colchester, Crawley and Rochdale. I think its defensively that has been the problem.

Goals can come in spurts and that's what we are hoping for.

We could win our last 3 games n still go down.
Has to be a 2 goal win v Crawley.
Swindon beat Bradford last nite.
So they shudent lie down v Crawley.
1 game at a time.

Defending is Pools' problem. The stats don't lie. We have the worst goals against record in the division and haven't kept a clean sheet in the last 14 games.
By comparison, Pools have scored more goals than 13 teams in our league, including Crawley and Barrow. Trouble is we have to score at least 1 just to stay in the game.

Can't see us keeping a clean sheet in any of the last 3 games with the defenders at Askey's disposal. The keeper is ok, as is Sterry if he's fit enough to play. The 3 young centre backs were like headless chickens last night with nobody to lead and organise them - an Academy trio playing against a good men's side. With the best will in the world, Stockport are going to take us apart again on the last day.

So the chances of staying up come down to scoring more than Crawley and Barrow at home and hoping Crawley don't manage more than a couple of points in their other 2 games.

Defending is Pools' problem. The stats don't lie. We have the worst goals against record in the division and haven't kept a clean sheet in the last 14 games.

but 6 games before that we kept a clean sheet at crawley. anything positive to grasp at helps.

Why does it have to be a 2 goal win against Crawley?? If we win by two goals, they go minus two and we go plus two, a difference of four in our favour.

2 goals or better to bring g/d into play which will be worth a point.
Pools n Crawley borh win game 45 then
We both get the same result on game 46.

Go n find your Abacus in ya loft.

UTP.

Can’t help thinking there’s going to be another Newport type heartbreak like last time on the last day with Crawley scoring an injury time goal to send us down

Hey

2 goals or better to bring g/d into play which will be worth a point.
Pools n Crawley borh win game 45 then
We both get the same result on game 46.

Go n find your Abacus in ya loft.

UTP.[/quote

Currently Crawley's GD is minus 24 and ours is minus 26 so we have a deficit of minus 2.

If we beat Crawley by one goal then we both have the same GD of minus 25 which would be enough to put us above them because if both GD are the same then goals scored takes over and we have scored more goals than them. So we only need a difference of one goal not two.
You have to remember that each goal is not only put for the scoring side but also against the other side, thus effectively counting double. If we win two nil for example the swing is four because two goals go on to our tally and two goals go against Crawley's. A Pools win by two goals makes us minus 24 and puts Crawley on minus 26 so we go from two behind them to two in front of them which is a turnaround of four.
It's not me who needs an abacus my friend.
Something like a four nil win is massive because Crawley's tally would go up to minus 28 and ours would go down to minus 22. So we would go from two behind then to six in front, a turnaround of 8.

You for real????

I'll simplify it for you.
Imagine it is the first match of the season against Walsall we lost 4 nil to Walsall. At that point they are plus 4 and we are minus 4.......agree so far??? The deficit is eight even though only four were scored because each goal scored is counted twice, once for the winning side and once against the losers. So the difference between us is eight at the final whistle. Same on Saturday. One goal more than them, not two, is needed for us to go above them as that one goal is added to their deficit and taken off ours which would put our GD level at minus 25 each. As we have scored more than them over the season so far we would go above them. Simple.

We only need to win by 1 goal on Saturday to go above them, but with relegation potentially being decided by goal difference obviously better to beat them by more, as they essentially count twice in a head to head.

Of course the more the merrier but like you I was merely pointing out that only one more goal than them was needed not two.
Four would be better as our position would go from minus two to plus six in the head to head.

We need three points on Saturday. Nothing more, nothing less. Then we go from there. UTP

Ano.
But u most probably got to factor in that the likelihood is Pools loss last game will be bigger than Crawleys.
Thats why gd is important IMHO
Crawley will probably win game 45 by a bigger margin than us.
Ye its confusing.

just wonder how crawley see the game. park the bus, get a draw and they still need another win in their last two games to send us down barring goal difference or go for pools and win the game that will realistically send us down and give em a couple of games to then relax and pick up the single point needed. them and us have no idea how the remaining games will pan out and they could easily throw away their league place by not being brave enough. know i,d want to win this game is the positions of both clubs were reversed.

Realistically both clubs would be better off by winning and I expect Crawley to think the same but a draw or a defeat would be more disastrous for us than them.
We have got to come out of this game with a win, nothing else will do for me. This win will put us 23rd and the rest will be completely in our hands, difficult though that may seem.
Just for once a goal scored and a clean sheet will do the job but, as we all know, clean sheets seem to be as rare as hen's teeth. So simple as it sounds, we have to win and then we have to beat Barrow. This will leave Crawley vulnerable. A Crawley win on Saturday will spell disaster. Even though mathematically we would still have a chance. However that chance would consist of Crawley losing their last two games and us winning ours as well as winning the GD challenge.
Possible but highly improbable.
WE HAVE TO WIN ON SATURDAY.

Its impossible to stay up before the Stockport game now.
Thats the reality of every permutation now.

unfortunetly thats true even if we beat them and barrow and they lose both games. comes to that game and if we lose it they could overcome their goal difference by a final game win and our defeat. it makes things even more nail biting.

Some decent fixtures in the NL next season. Wrexham will have gone up and assuming Notts County win the play offs we will be playing, Chesterfield, Oldham, Rochdale, York, Gateshead. From where I live Southend and Dagenham and Barnet will be handy. I know there will still be the likes of Eastleigh, Woking, Boreham Wood but I think the fixtures are better than last time round. Yes, I am accepting the inevitable. Edit: I forgot to mention Halifax.

Stockport won’t be doing Pools any favours as they could be looking for a place in an automatic promotion spot.

Have you looked at the National South where Ebbsfleet (Gravesend, Kent) are champions but Chelmsford amongst others are in the mix, close to Southend and handy for you?

Not so keen on Kent but some other Southern fixtures are travellable although I tend not to go when I know defeat is inevitable. Dagenham and Southend always a good day out though I have never seen Pools win at either ground. I absolutely despise Ebbsfleet with all my being and would rather chop my bollocks off than go anywhere near their shitty tin pot ground. No offence, like.

Had this conversation with a mackem friend of mine and he asked a good question....

will the NL be a harder place to be this time (if we went down) compared to the last season we played in it and got out...

my answer was all depends if Notts / Wrexham both go up then there will certainly be more former large league clubs in there than previous giving it that sort of League 3 feel if you like - but should one of them somehow get beaten at Wembley in the final then it certainly will be for me a harder league to be playing in. Given the likes of Chesterfield and Bromley seem to have strong promotion pushing sides (year after year). Barnet seem to have found a decent team with former Pools Striker bagging for fun again - Boreham Wood another strong outfit who look better than the team we last played (albeit missing their talisman Tshimanga).
Local derby's for us would be back with the likes of Gateshead and York even go as far as saying Halifax too.

Dags and Southend always tough teams to play against and not too mention Solihull !

then the teams we have played so recently in the likes of Oldham and Rochdale who for me dont deserve to be down there and will always be league clubs in my eyes !

Not saying owt about our prospects of success at this stage because a lot will depend on the squad we have which will be a heck of a lot different to the current one. My point was that in general the fixtures will be more appealing than last time because of the large number of teams with significant FL pedigree with a decent number being close enough to make the travelling Poolies very happy. Last time just too many Kent and Hampshire clubs.

At the end of the day the blames lies at Singhs door no one else, end of.

The Darent must have a claim to being the weirdest river in Britain. Posh and picturesque as all hell at one end, fly tipping and horrible dumps like Ebbsfleet at the other.

Only the braindead would disagree wirh you Jamie.
But you always get the odd 1 or 2.

Singh is our Saviour

And

Destroyer more of the destroyer in last 2 seasons

used to really like them before they changed their name and always looked for their results. however since they changed there name they have become another eastleigh and woking type of club for me. no hate but totally disinterested in them.

and those in his position for years before.

Only one in Singh position before, the snake oil salesman Coxall, prior to that it was IOR, TMH for a couple of weeks before they ran off with the gate money and were found out for what they were

You've overlooked John Blackledge, Sage investments and the fact that Pools almost went out of business at the beginning of 2018 with debts of £1.8 million. Debt that Raj Singh took on when he took over the club - or rather, saved the club.

His judgement where it affects football matters has been really poor since Pools got back into League Two (after being good when he was backing Challinor's promotion charge out of the NL). He's done better with the January transfer window and appointing Askey but it looks very much like too little, too late.

What happens if Pools do go down again is something Pools fans ought to be holding their breath about.

you mean if singh walks and puts the club up for sale. one way you think thank the lord till you look at other clubs and the new owner being worse than the one they replaced.

Couldn't agree more. Singh has mad a monumental balls up with the appointment of Hartley but without him it is possible Pools would not exist. He appointed Challinor and backed him and got us back into the FL. I have no inside knowledge but it appears the club is in a better financial position than it was when Singh arrived so if we are relegated we will be better equipped to deal with it than last time.

[quote="Ozzy Saltburn Singh has mad a monumental balls up with the appointment of Hartley but without him it is possible Pools would not exist. He appointed Challinor and backed him and got us back into the FL. I have no inside knowledge but it appears the club is in a better financial position than it was when Singh arrived so if we are relegated we will be better equipped to deal with it than last time.[/quote]
if by being in a better financial position than when he arrived you mean the debt has been reduced you are correct. that was done a lot with the non budgetted cup runs we had with the minimal spent on the team. there is a big difference in adding greatly to the debt with stupid wages being paid along with similar transfer fees and running on a shoestring in the hope a manager can turn water into wine on the pitch.

Yes. If we go down it'll be cuts all round again, goodbye to the new Academy side etc., etc. It remains to be seen whether the current owner will have the stomach to do it all again or if he'll give the Raj-out brigade their wish and want to walk away. What happens then would be anybody's guess.

could be seen as we have to be careful what we wish for. on the positive side i think the average poolie has little expectations of a multi billion pound owner turning up making the vic into a mini reynolds arena and splashing millions on transfer fees, but expect a run of the mill rich guy giving the club a little push that the fans deserve. we do our bit by turning up even when whats on offer isn,t fit for purpose so rightfully we expect an owner doing their utmost.

I think Raj has done his utmost but unfortunately the Hartley appointment tends to overshadow all the good he has done.

When Pools were owned by IOR and used as a tax right off, sponsored/backed by LOG/Larssen ‘writing’ off a 1 million pounds a season was nought.Singh is not in a position to do that, he doesn’t have that much cash to burn, the club needs to be self funded, can we be self funded on our current attendances ? Some owners of clubs see it as a vanity project I doubt Singh does though.

I surmise there will be some significant changes to the way the club is run in the NL. A lot of staff will go but the club are saddled with a bunch of poor players on two year contracts on high (for Pools) wages.

Easier to win these last 3 games and stay in the EFL.
Than to delusionally give yourself false hope that we can go down n come straight back up.
Never gunna happen.

I would love us to win the next 3 games. Whatever it takes to finish above Crawley.

Definitely easier than double promotions from the NL, but Grimsby managed to come straight back up and they ain't world beaters.

I dont think many Poolies expect to come straight back up if we get relegated. We all know what the NL is like but on the positive side, we have a manager who has plenty of experience in that particular niche. A lot of players will come and go and much depends on who we have left and who joins. I would like to think that Pools would win a lot more games in the NL than they have in the FL.

And we ourselves know exactly what to expect……
But let’s not go there!!!!!

Dont want to go there any more than anyone else but I wonder if we might be catapulted there at around 4.55 tomorrow.

If you think that way you usually get your wish…..It all depends on the team who comes out of the tunnel this afternoon…..Jekyll or Hyde…. It’s players who get you promoted or relegated.

recruitment is the same if we stay up or go down. a gamble. cannot see a bigger gamble happening than the start of this season where hartley was bluffing with the worst possible hand you can have. a lot could depend on the fans and how many do walk away if we go down. possibly how we do go down could be a deciding factor as the next 3 games will be remembered more than the previous 43. surrender with a whimper will be different from just missing out after a good fight.

as the title of this thread says at the end of the day. getting to the point of being glad when things get sorted where we will play next season. all these permutatations of what will happen if is going through my head nearly all my waking day and for me religation cannot be worse than this.