Pools v Orient

Bosh85 · **Joined:** Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:47 am **Posts:** 297

Snowy wrote:

RichyHpool wrote:

Personally don't think u can knock fergies commitment, the quality is lacking a bit just now though. Last week a ball bounced up near the half way line, Bradford player went in with his foot but Ferguson went in with his head and won the ball, could have got a real clout, that's commitment, I don't think sterry would have done that. Sterry looks like he's holding back from challenges not wanting to get hurt but he's still good on the ball and wants to get involved that way.

Probably the best 30 mins of football we've played this season yesterday, had table topping orient penned in and they got away with a draw. If only one of those chances had gone in. Definitely been massive improvement since Askey has come in, actually have a game plan and look to play some football. Even if we go down I think he needs to stay and build something.

Sterry is ‘looking to the far horizon’ and has been for most of the season and boy does it show. I reckon he’ll not be around next season regardless of whether we go down or stay up.

Theres another reason for Sterrys dip in form. I know someone who went for Physio with Buster (Pools physio who left last season) and he had said that Sterry has horrendous long term injuries, basically he is knackered. I can't remember the specifics but he has numerous issues.

Curle said as much in one of his interiews, that the club is in a position where they have to let Sterry determine how much he can train or play. I believe that he isn't training much at all lately and literally just plays the games.

It can be a dangerous situation letting a player dictate when they train, as they are paid to train. However earlier in the season Sterry couldn't string together more than 2 games.

If you discount the 3 suspended games, Sterry has played the last 10 games.

So the new approach is working, but his inability to train each week is obviously having an effect, he isn't as sharp as we have previously saw him.

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12320

Bosh85 wrote:

Snowy wrote:

RichyHpool wrote:

Personally don't think u can knock fergies commitment, the quality is lacking a bit just now though. Last week a ball bounced up near the half way line, Bradford player went in with his foot but Ferguson went in with his head and won the ball, could have got a real clout, that's commitment, I don't think sterry would have done that. Sterry looks like he's holding back from challenges not wanting to get hurt but he's still good on the ball and wants to get involved that way.

Probably the best 30 mins of football we've played this season yesterday, had table topping orient penned in and they got away with a draw. If only one of those chances had gone in. Definitely been massive improvement since Askey has come in, actually have a game plan and look to play some football. Even if we go down I think he needs to stay and build something.

Sterry is ‘looking to the far horizon’ and has been for most of the season and boy does it show. I reckon he’ll not be around next season regardless of whether we go down or stay up.

Theres another reason for Sterrys dip in form. I know someone who went for Physio with Buster (Pools physio who left last season) and he had said that Sterry has horrendous long term injuries, basically he is knackered. I can't remember the specifics but he has numerous issues.

Curle said as much in one of his interiews, that the club is in a position where they have to let Sterry determine how much he can train or play. I believe that he isn't training much at all lately and literally just plays the games.

It can be a dangerous situation letting a player dictate when they train, as they are paid to train. However earlier in the season Sterry couldn't string together more than 2 games.

If you discount the 3 suspended games, Sterry has played the last 10 games.

So the new approach is working, but his inability to train each week is obviously having an effect, he isn't as sharp as we have previously saw him.

Yes I think it is obvious there is something amiss. Both our full backs were something else not so long ago and that's what I would like back but if it is not to be then we accept that and move on. Shame but shit happens. We had the injury problems attached to Luke Williams and James Brown and had to deal with it.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

Bosh85 wrote:

[

Theres another reason for Sterrys dip in form. I know someone who went for Physio with Buster (Pools physio who left last season) and he had said that Sterry has horrendous long term injuries, basically he is knackered. I can't remember the specifics but he has numerous issues.

Curle said as much in one of his interiews, that the club is in a position where they have to let Sterry determine how much he can train or play. I believe that he isn't training much at all lately and literally just plays the games.

It can be a dangerous situation letting a player dictate when they train, as they are paid to train. However earlier in the season Sterry couldn't string together more than 2 games.

If you discount the 3 suspended games, Sterry has played the last 10 games.

So the new approach is working, but his inability to train each week is obviously having an effect, he isn't as sharp as we have previously saw him.

well john mcgrath managed it for a few seasons in the premier league for villa playing regularly and not training. think too much is made of training nowadays as many good players were poor trainers anyway who just went through the motions doing as little as possible. you hear state,emts like he,s trained well all week to see a crap performance on a matchday when it really matters.

Jamie1952 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:56 pm **Posts:** 7083

accrington fan wrote:

Bosh85 wrote:

[

Theres another reason for Sterrys dip in form. I know someone who went for Physio with Buster (Pools physio who left last season) and he had said that Sterry has horrendous long term injuries, basically he is knackered. I can't remember the specifics but he has numerous issues.

Curle said as much in one of his interiews, that the club is in a position where they have to let Sterry determine how much he can train or play. I believe that he isn't training much at all lately and literally just plays the games.

It can be a dangerous situation letting a player dictate when they train, as they are paid to train. However earlier in the season Sterry couldn't string together more than 2 games.

If you discount the 3 suspended games, Sterry has played the last 10 games.

So the new approach is working, but his inability to train each week is obviously having an effect, he isn't as sharp as we have previously saw him.

well john mcgrath managed it for a few seasons in the premier league for villa playing regularly and not training. think too much is made of training nowadays as many good players were poor trainers anyway who just went through the motions doing as little as possible. you hear state,emts like he,s trained well all week to see a crap performance on a matchday when it really matters.

You mean Paul McGrath ?

Eiphos_3 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:15 pm

I watch alot of the Football Podcats (Under the Cosh , Ben Fosters Cycling GK etc...) and there must be countless interviews with ex / current players who have said that some of the best players on the park wouldnt train well at all yet come game day absolutely smash it !

Im sure one of the more famous ones was Adel Taarabt at QPR - said he wouldnt do shit through the week yet come match day was something else.

Tevez was the same am sure at United and possibly when at City ...

Makes sense about Sterry though... think at this level no matter how good you are you still need to keep the tools sharp and maybe learn a new thing or 2 from your peers / coaching staff.

harrogatepoolie · **Joined:** Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:35 pm **Posts:** 1126

Post deleted sorry

Jamie1952 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:56 pm **Posts:** 7083

Eiphos_3 wrote:

I watch alot of the Football Podcats (Under the Cosh , Ben Fosters Cycling GK etc...) and there must be countless interviews with ex / current players who have said that some of the best players on the park wouldnt train well at all yet come game day absolutely smash it !

Im sure one of the more famous ones was Adel Taarabt at QPR - said he wouldnt do shit through the week yet come match day was something else.

Tevez was the same am sure at United and possibly when at City ...

Makes sense about Sterry though... think at this level no matter how good you are you still need to keep the tools sharp and maybe learn a new thing or 2 from your peers / coaching staff.

I like some of the Undr the Cosh podcasts, Jon Parkin admits he hated training and on his way to training he would stop at a burger van and get some food.
Jim Baxter the Rangers player from years gone by very rarely trained, he was a p*** artist had 2 liver transplants, he used to turn up at training and have hot baths.
Every player is different some have to work harder than others to keep their fitness levels up. You just need to look at some of the ex pros.who don’t play anymore and have piled on the pounds because they don’t train anymore.

Jamie1952 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:56 pm **Posts:** 7083

Daniel Nardiello on Undr the Cosh, was at Pools on loan for a few games.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

Jamie1952 wrote:

[

I like some of the Undr the Cosh podcasts, Jon Parkin admits he hated training and on his way to training he would stop at a burger van and get some food.
Jim Baxter the Rangers player from years gone by very rarely trained, he was a p*** artist had 2 liver transplants, he used to turn up at training and have hot baths.
Every player is different some have to work harder than others to keep their fitness levels up. You just need to look at some of the ex pros.who don’t play anymore and have piled on the pounds because they don’t train anymore.

its luck of the draw and inherited genes. some lads have only to pass a burger van and put half a stone on whilst others in my family including me are only that half a stone heavier than when we left school. players now look after themselves away from training more unlike the old days when some actually put on a couple of stone after the end of one season and the start of training the next. another bad trainer was billy kee, a lower league goalscorer who actually hated football and would watch anything else on the box but that.

Eiphos_3 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:42 pm

Its all down to the training aswell a suppose - the modern game is so more well developed and advanced that you can afford a player to be maybe just doing 50% of something but 100% of something else based on what his body can do.

a suppose thats the reason why we have a sports scientist now at the club and the likes of Man City have an army of these type of people all working behind the scenes on this stuff.

hell am sure it was only a few seasons ago Pools players started wearing those black tracking vests under their kits - seems like the prem has had them forever now - and adding another note onto it - there is chips inside their boots as well now conveying all kinds of data to these boffins

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

Eiphos_3 wrote:

Its all down to the training aswell a suppose - the modern game is so more well developed and advanced that you can afford a player to be maybe just doing 50% of something but 100% of something else based on what his body can do.

a suppose thats the reason why we have a sports scientist now at the club and the likes of Man City have an army of these type of people all working behind the scenes on this stuff.

hell am sure it was only a few seasons ago Pools players started wearing those black tracking vests under their kits - seems like the prem has had them forever now - and adding another note onto it - there is chips inside their boots as well now conveying all kinds of data to these boffins

is that all just jobs for the boys. some clubs have diaticians and have had em for years. has the game actually inproved. for me no as you still hear words like it came to his wrong foot when a striker slices the ball wide from 10 yards out. my old man would turn in his grave if he heard stuff like that. real one footed players were as rare as an honest politician back in the old days. with packed defences players have not the time anymore to move it to their good foot and we need the basics right before we move on to other things.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36416

Eiphos_3 wrote:

hell am sure it was only a few seasons ago Pools players started wearing those black tracking vests under their kits - seems like the prem has had them forever now - and adding another note onto it - there is chips inside their boots as well now conveying all kinds of data to these boffins

Overkill…? Clubs are employing an army of lap top button pushers amassing data most of which will have little relevance as we’re not programming robots but dealing with human beings.
If players are not good enough in the physical sense, talent or positive attitude, all the data in the world will change nothing.
Most ‘boffins’ in the game are good at creating their own importance, with their copious note taking during matches and flourishing their sheets of god knows what…… which I suspect is well overrated.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

Snowy wrote:

[
Overkill…? Clubs are employing an army of lap top button pushers amassing data most of which will have little relevance as we’re not programming robots but dealing with human beings.
If players are not good enough in the physical sense, talent or positive attitude, all the data in the world will change nothing.
Most ‘boffins’ in the game are good at creating their own importance, with their copious note taking during matches and flourishing their sheets of god knows what…… which I suspect is well overrated.

you mean like when a sub is made during the game. seems to take an eternity to get them on after minutes of instructions are given to the player who knows his job anyway but might not have the ability to do it no matter what he is told. bit like what i think is the warm up over kill is. some team must have started all that in the first place so if they got results it must have been seen to be that what did it so the rest followed. same with pre rehersed goal celebrations even for goals that are not that important.

TFP · **Joined:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:25 pm **Posts:** 150

Data analysis has its place, but it's what you do with it that matters - whether in football or anywhere else.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

TFP wrote:

Data analysis has its place, but it's what you do with it that matters - whether in football or anywhere else.

can add statistics to that as well.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36416

TFP wrote:

Data analysis has its place, but it's what you do with it that matters - whether in football or anywhere else.

In engineering definitely, but working with something as variable and unpredictable as a footballer it is a vague concept compounded by unstable attitudes and lack of absolutes.

derwent · **Joined:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:59 pm **Posts:** 12320

Snowy wrote:

TFP wrote:

Data analysis has its place, but it's what you do with it that matters - whether in football or anywhere else.

In engineering definitely, but working with something as variable and unpredictable as a footballer it is a vague concept compounded by unstable attitudes and lack of absolutes.

Add the fact that footballers are humans and can therefore lie, cheat , falsify and scheme.
People are already commenting on the availability of players all of a sudden and the transformation of contribution....eg Murray.

loyal_fan · **Joined:** Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:15 pm **Posts:** 3689

If Sterry is as badly hurt as mentioned above I wonder if that means he stays here as would struggle with a medical anywhere else.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

loyal_fan wrote:

If Sterry is as badly hurt as mentioned above I wonder if that means he stays here as would struggle with a medical anywhere else.

well wasn,t it injury related anyway when newcastle let him go and south shields were the one to pick him up. i,m sure i heard he had a serious injury with the mags so it could be coming back to haunt him.

Jamie1952 · **Joined:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:56 pm **Posts:** 7083

Looking at Sterry in the last 5 years he hasn’t played much football ?
Years Team Apps (Gls)
2015–2020 Newcastle United 3 (0)
2016–2017 → Coventry City (loan) 16 (0)
2018 → Crewe Alexandra (loan) 9 (0)
2019 → Crewe Alexandra (loan) 1 (0)
2020 South Shields 2 (0)
2020– Hartlepool United 85 (3

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

Jamie1952 wrote:

Looking at Sterry in the last 5 years he hasn’t played much football ?
Years Team Apps (Gls)
2015–2020 Newcastle United 3 (0)
2016–2017 → Coventry City (loan) 16 (0)
2018 → Crewe Alexandra (loan) 9 (0)
2019 → Crewe Alexandra (loan) 1 (0)
2020 South Shields 2 (0)
2020– Hartlepool United 85 (3

that only tells part of the story though. on one hand how many full games did he play before joining us as late sub appearances should not count. how many games was he actually available for selection as well. is he also one of those lads who will only play if he is 100 per cent fit unlike some who are prepared to give it a go no matter what for the club and their team mates. so many questions about the lad that i wish could be sorted out for his and our sakes as on his day he is a valuable member of a squad that do not possess much value.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36416

accrington fan wrote:

Jamie1952 wrote:

Looking at Sterry in the last 5 years he hasn’t played much football ?
Years Team Apps (Gls)
2015–2020 Newcastle United 3 (0)
2016–2017 → Coventry City (loan) 16 (0)
2018 → Crewe Alexandra (loan) 9 (0)
2019 → Crewe Alexandra (loan) 1 (0)
2020 South Shields 2 (0)
2020– Hartlepool United 85 (3

that only tells part of the story though. on one hand how many full games did he play before joining us as late sub appearances should not count. how many games was he actually available for selection as well. is he also one of those lads who will only play if he is 100 per cent fit unlike some who are prepared to give it a go no matter what for the club and their team mates. so many questions about the lad that i wish could be sorted out for his and our sakes as on his day he is a valuable member of a squad that do not possess much value.

‘On his day’ or more correctly ‘when he can be arsed’ is no good for a player in a team that wants to succeed……we need commitment and enthusiasm from players.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

Snowy wrote:

accrington fan wrote:

[ so many questions about the lad that i wish could be sorted out for his and our sakes as on his day he is a valuable member of a squad that do not possess much value.

‘On his day’ or more correctly ‘when he can be arsed’ is no good for a player in a team that wants to succeed……we need commitment and enthusiasm from players.

true, but he is like a few others and not all at pools. when the team is winning and doing well they play well but not quite as good when the team is struggling. seems far less in the game now than in the past where players rolled up their sleeves to attempt to change things. more likely either hide or go through the motions just doing the minimum required.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36416

If a player can’t give 100% and plays when the mood takes them, no club needs them…..no matter how talented they are.

Eiphos_3 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:33 pm

Tumilty gave 100% bless him but was utterly poo - id rather have a 50% Sterry

but on a serious note yeh i agree Snowy we need battle hardened footballers of the old school who want to give 100% a week no matter what - some players these days think if their toe has slight bruising they cant play. Looked after like a bunch of fairies and it shows nowadays

Flying Hogans · **Joined:** Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm **Posts:** 5388

Some right bollocks being talked about Sterry now. He's struggled with injuries this season, after missing very few league games previously - 2 out of 32 after joining Pools part way through the promotion season, 9 out of 46 last season.

If 'not fully fit' really meant 'can't be arsed' you'd think the club's physio, coaches and manager would be able to spot that too - they're the ones who see the players in training every day.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36416

Flying Hogans wrote:

Some right bollocks being talked about Sterry now. He's struggled with injuries this season, after missing very few league games previously - 2 out of 32 after joining Pools part way through the promotion season, 9 out of 46 last season.

If 'not fully fit' really meant 'can't be arsed' you'd think the club's physio, coaches and manager would be able to spot that too - they're the ones who see the players in training every day.

They’re football coaches, not psychoanalysts, attitude and body language are well beyond their comprehension. But….a jaded attitude is easily spotted.

Bosh85 · **Joined:** Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:47 am **Posts:** 297

From what I observe Sterry gives 100% in matches, he puts his body on the line to the point where he can hardly walk.

Last week he hobbled off after playing the full match.

Flying Hogans · **Joined:** Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm **Posts:** 5388

Snowy wrote:

Flying Hogans wrote:

Some right bollocks being talked about Sterry now. He's struggled with injuries this season, after missing very few league games previously - 2 out of 32 after joining Pools part way through the promotion season, 9 out of 46 last season.

If 'not fully fit' really meant 'can't be arsed' you'd think the club's physio, coaches and manager would be able to spot that too - they're the ones who see the players in training every day.

They’re football coaches, not psychoanalysts, attitude and body language are well beyond their comprehension. But….a jaded attitude is easily spotted.

So you are a psychoanalyst?

There was me thinking you were just a jaded cynic

Flying Hogans · **Joined:** Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm **Posts:** 5388

Bosh85 wrote:

From what I observe Sterry gives 100% in matches, he puts his body on the line to the point where he can hardly walk.

Last week he hobbled off after playing the full match.

Yep, that's the way I see it too. He's not a fans favourite at the Vic for nothing.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36416

Flying Hogans wrote:

Snowy wrote:

Flying Hogans wrote:

Some right bollocks being talked about Sterry now. He's struggled with injuries this season, after missing very few league games previously - 2 out of 32 after joining Pools part way through the promotion season, 9 out of 46 last season.

If 'not fully fit' really meant 'can't be arsed' you'd think the club's physio, coaches and manager would be able to spot that too - they're the ones who see the players in training every day.

They’re football coaches, not psychoanalysts, attitude and body language are well beyond their comprehension. But….a jaded attitude is easily spotted.

So you are a psychoanalyst?

There was me thinking you were just a jaded cynic

Option two every time…. but you left out bitter and twisted. :laugh:

Flying Hogans · **Joined:** Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:29 pm **Posts:** 5388

Snowy wrote:

Option two every time…. but you left out bitter and twisted. :laugh:

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 18947

Eiphos_3 wrote:

but on a serious note yeh i agree Snowy we need battle hardened footballers of the old school who want to give 100% a week no matter what - some players these days think if their toe has slight bruising they cant play. Looked after like a bunch of fairies and it shows nowadays

thing is that they do not exist anymore as the game has changed to accomodate the others. clubs seem happy to have players out for a few games because they broke a finger nail and welcome them back to cheat the fans, the opposition and match officials. at least football does not give me the excuse of wishing i was 16 again having to endure 60 years of the bad getting even worse. there are times when i wish pools would do a new brighton till i could turn my back on the game for good.

Grayhoundend · **Joined:** Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:13 pm **Posts:** 6689

accrington fan wrote:

Eiphos_3 wrote:

but on a serious note yeh i agree Snowy we need battle hardened footballers of the old school who want to give 100% a week no matter what - some players these days think if their toe has slight bruising they cant play. Looked after like a bunch of fairies and it shows nowadays

thing is that they do not exist anymore as the game has changed to accomodate the others. clubs seem happy to have players out for a few games because they broke a finger nail and welcome them back to cheat the fans, the opposition and match officials. at least football does not give me the excuse of wishing i was 16 again having to endure 60 years of the bad getting even worse. there are times when i wish pools would do a new brighton till i could turn my back on the game for good.

Have you been at Kevins meds.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 36416

Grayhoundend wrote:

accrington fan wrote:

Eiphos_3 wrote:

but on a serious note yeh i agree Snowy we need battle hardened footballers of the old school who want to give 100% a week no matter what - some players these days think if their toe has slight bruising they cant play. Looked after like a bunch of fairies and it shows nowadays

thing is that they do not exist anymore as the game has changed to accomodate the others. clubs seem happy to have players out for a few games because they broke a finger nail and welcome them back to cheat the fans, the opposition and match officials. at least football does not give me the excuse of wishing i was 16 again having to endure 60 years of the bad getting even worse. there are times when i wish pools would do a new brighton till i could turn my back on the game for good.

Have you been at Kevins meds.

There is talk of a local screen wash shortage.

Bosh85 · **Joined:** Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:47 am **Posts:** 297

Sterrys last ditch tackle yesterday at one end of pitch and shot on target after good work taking a man on in their box hopefully proves he wants Pools to win as much as anyone.

Another performance from him where he gave 100%, don't be surprised to see him get on the score sheet or an assist in the next couple of games as I think hes starting to get back to his best. Still work to do though.

Pools v Orient

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