Now this a joke considering over 70% of the U.K. water companies are foreign owned,
French appeal to EU over UK discharges of waste,
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62670623

French shit stirring again.

Doing a bit of research, the French used to own Northumbria Water but not now,
Northumbrian Water is part of Northumbrian Water Group, which is ultimately owned by the Cayman Islands-registered Hong Kong conglomerate CK Hutchison Holdings Limited. CK Hutchison has investments in a wide range of sectors including telecoms, ports, water and energy companies.

Literally it would appear.

As Del Boy would say;

MERDE SUR TOI

Nah, the joke is that the water companies in England have siphoned off £72 billion in shareholder dividends since privatisation of a public utility, while losing over a trillion litres of water from leaky pipes last year alone and pumping unbelievable amounts of untreated sewage into our seas and rivers.

Our shitty government can be relied on to do nothing about any of this - except to criminally underfund toothless regulators like the Environment Agency and Ofwat.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tives-paid

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -year.html

To be fair, why didn’t any government since Thatcher do anything about it??????same as the railways, Energy and telecoms all should have remained in public ownership.
Best part of being a floating voter, I can despise all of them.

A floater eh?

New Labour weren't in the business if renationalisation and neither would Starmer be in the normal run of things. I think all bets might be off after this winter though - millions of people newly impoverished by the energy crisis could well be in a mood to demand real change rather than the usual window dressing.

The change is needed in Russia not here though. Their "sanctions " on the rest of the World are doing more damage than the R O W are doing to them, or so it would appear.
It also appears that the EU are getting weary of it all and that could mean turning a blind eye to Putin's antics.
How long is the West gonna put up with these problems.

Plenty of change needed here too. The price of natural gas started to shoot up in 2021 - 31 UK gas supply companies went bust before the Ukraine war started - most of them get rich quick merchants with no experience of the industry who gambled that gas prices would stay low and allow them to cream off a nice profit.

The biggest, Bulb, had 1.7 million customers and had to be put into 'special administration' by the government because the remaining companies in the market couldn't take on that many new customers in one go. Keeping Bulb afloat has added £150 to your gas bill and mine "as the price of bailing out the failed supplier threatens to top £4bn by next spring."

[quote="Snowy"][

To be fair, why didn’t any government since Thatcher do anything about it??????same as the railways, Energy and telecoms all should have remained in public ownership.

it did not seem important to the vast amount of the population though either. something that never came up in conversation and if it did those wanting re nationalisation were shot down in flames about how the nationalised companies were run. usually loss making with excessive amounts of pen pushers and middle management. i,d be in favour of em all coming out of private ownership but run for profit and not a loss for the governments to subsidise.

I would nationalise all the utility companies if it was financially possibly, my biggest concern is who would run them. The civil service is full of pen pushers and we could end up going down the same road as we did before with inefficient overstuffed companies.
I would put some one in charge from the private sector some one who has never worked in the civil service as they can be institutionalised.
One thing they would need is huge investment, that was one of the reasons they were privatised, Thatcher said let the private companies fund any investment but we know how that ended up.

£72 billion payed to shareholders since privatisation.
£58 million payed to bosses in the last 5 years

- there is your investment money.

[quote="Jamie1952"][
I would put some one in charge from the private sector some one who has never worked in the civil service as they can be institutionalised.

thats the line i,d go down and most who i know also would. seems only the real far right and left that think otherwise.

Nationalisation can work perfectly well if a commercially minded management with outside mindsets are brought in and not at the mercy of some board of civil service bigwigs who’ll bugger it up with gross over staffing and pointless posts created.
Get it down to the core business and it’ll return a profit for the country not overseas profiteers.

That's how it should be but very rarely is. People seem to think working in a nationalized industry as easier, as nobody has a vested interest in it apart from a job ( which is important don't get me wrong). Governments don't usually encourage job losses in NI's as those who lose their jobs are still financed by the government until something else crops up.
They are never manned with the word lean anywhere in the proceedings. Full of cushy management layers as everyone seems to need an assistant.
Wonderful in theory but hopeless in practise.

Aye, the makey up jobs that no sensible industry would entertain….. I suspect ‘Director of Staples and Paper Clips 42K a year’…. mightn’t be just a myth.

Our biggest nationalised industry must be the NHS. never worked in it but no a few who have done. all they say is that its top heavy with non medical staff and burocracy. be interesting to know the percentage of non medical staff there is now to when it was first introduced back in the 40,s.

In the old days we didn’t have employees on around £250k like we have in North Tees and Hartlepool Trust, 14 non medical staff listed.
https://www.nth.nhs.uk/about/trust-board/

It was announced this morning that Scarborough was the worst sewage affected area in the country.
Yorkshire leading the way when it comes to producing an abundance of shit, nothing changes.

That’s just the tip of the iceberg……. It really is an alternative reality where clipboard culture rules.
I worked in the public sector part of my working life and we had a systems manager who when you phoned him never ever actually solved anything, he used to say he was ‘checking his spreadsheet’ and after about five minutes of rustling papers said he’d get back to you, but never did.
Rumour had it his spreadsheet was a couple of sheets of greaseproof paper (for extra effect over the phone) which he had on a chain which he changed on a daily basis.

The story of the dead sea creatures seems to be cranking up and the conflicting reports as to its cause is developing into a real bun fight.
Just heard Ben Houchen on the radio saying he wants the "right answer" which does not seem like what you would say when "true answer" may be more appropriate.

Never mind Ben Houchen what’s our MP doing about, when was the last she was seen ?

You really are obsessed with our MP. Admittedly she doesn’t go getting her face in the Mail on a nightly basis when it was out every day like our last Labour ‘Leader’ of the Council, or the activities of our last MP which resulted in his resignation…..but you do take a morbid interest in her every move.
Do you have political aspirations?
I’d imagine her knowledge of dredging which is being blamed but oddly has not yet started is as wide as your understanding of Middle Ages Birthing techniques in Lapland.

Every move, when was the last one, explain to me what Jill Mortimer has done for Hartlepool since she was elected, what investment has she attracted to the area ?
Forget about all the previous MPs who we know they did nought, where is all this levelling up which was promised ?
You will have to explain to me what the Middle Ages Birthing technique in lapland is, never been there, isn't that where Santa Claus lives ?
I had political aspirations at one time but unfortunately due to my work and family commitments I couldn’t fulfil them but it still doesn’t stop me having opinions.

She is truly awful & just a light weight lapdog.
Tice of the Reform Party is standing which should make it interesting.
But there is only going to be one winner and thats the Apathy Party.
I despair about politics in the UK and how this shower of shit has dragged the country into the gutter both morally and economically.

I expect a cracking game at the Vic this afternoon so it all ok then!

I went to the station this morning and who did i see than no other than Richard Tice of the Reform party.
A little prat he was with was explaining the railway station upgrade.......so its pleasing that he has done his research.
A privileged rich boy playing games.

I don’t measure anyone by their wealth or their lack of it.

Yes but most wealthy people don’t give a s*** about the underprivileged and the less well of, community spirit has all but disappeared since the decimation of industry in the U.K.
There used to be a great community spirit in Hartlepool with clubs and estate pubs but they have all disappeared along with the community spirit.

Community spirit my arse….. I saw a documentary that I thought could have been a spoof about the demise of Clubs and pubs in the North East where a club committee chairman was bemoaning falling numbers and complains the younger generation were travelling into town centres instead of coming to the club like generations before them then said he couldn’t understand it as they could offer darts, snooker, bingo, talent shows, quiz nights etc etc. He had no idea, times change,…same with estate pubs, no one used them because they were boring or badly run and I can definitely vouch for that.
They’ve gone now, like zeppelins, rickets and gas lights…
Everyone now thinks they’re special and ‘sophisticated’( bollocks) and want better than pubs and clubs…..sadly community spirit was killed by the new community of selfish ladder climbers.

might have helped clubs if they were far less cliquish where unless you walked in with one of the regulars you felt you either had two heads or your fly,s were undone. not just the north east but everywhere in the country i have lived. a bit little britain ish, a local club for local people. then there were the estate pubs. might be just me bit always found these places totally uninviting giving the impression of come inside if you fancy a bit of a ruck and nothing else.

What happened to the lunchtime strippers?
Has that been the downfall of the working mens clubs and society in general?

they could not afford strippers nowadays as they,d have to have a woman, a man, a trans and one who thinks and demands to be treated as a frog all having to have a go to tick the boxes of their clubs entertainment licence. they couldn,t even get a comic for saturday night as the place would be shut down if they even told a bobby thompson type joke never mind a chubby brown type act.

The Saturday meat draw in the ‘ Coronation Programme Sellers Club 1953’..for the traditional leg of mince, will have to be replaced by a block of tofu and a bag of organic lentils. Enjoy

Community spirit my arse….. I saw a documentary that I thought could have been a spoof about the demise of Clubs and pubs in the North East where a club committee chairman was bemoaning falling numbers and complains the younger generation were travelling into town centres instead of coming to the club like generations before them then said he couldn’t understand it as they could offer darts, snooker, bingo, talent shows, quiz nights etc etc. He had no idea, times change,…same with estate pubs, no one used them because they were boring or badly run and I can definitely vouch for that.
.[/quote]


True,Snowy..was the chairman Colin Crompton from the Wheeltappers and Shunters social club?

True,Snowy..was the chairman Colin Crompton from the Wheeltappers and Shunters social club?[/quote]
An older version, I kid you not, trapped in a 50’s time warp.

The 70's? .. The lads away day trips to a Blackpool strip club were replaced by a Betamax at home i guess

Always advertised in the local papers as ‘One for the Boys’…..it all sounds a bit sad and repressed now.

Friday afternoon in the Graythorp Club and there used to a pub in Port Clarence, demolished now when the construction industry was at its peak, most sites finished at 12.30.

have not a clue now where this club was but i enjoyed the system where you had to queue in line to get served. in the traditional scrum at the bar being over 6ft tall i used to be like the invisable man where everyone seemed to get served before me. this still goes on nowadays and i just give someone else the money to order drinks at the bar.

Just seen this on Arsebook. The silt thickens!

DEFRA pressured officials to clear ports giant over Whitby crab deaths
Exclusive: The government has been accused of a cover-up to protect plans for a freeport in nearby Teesside
Minister's and MPs leaned on government officials investigating the death of thousands of crabs and lobsters in north-east England to deny that dredging by a ports giant was a likely cause, openDemocracy can reveal.
openDemocracy has obtained a large number of documents through multiple Environmental Information Regulation (EIR) requests that reveal politicians pressured investigators to rebut an independent report that pointed the finger at the practice.
The chair of the Whitby Fishermen's Association, James Cole, has previously accused the authorities of a ‘cover-up’ to protect the government's plans for the expansion of the politically sensitive freeport in Teesside, which will require dredging. Similarly, Labour councillor Alma Hellaoui has accused the government department of a “cover up of the real issues that face us”.
In October 2021, dead crustaceans started to pile up along the North Yorkshire shore, first along the Tees Estuary near Redcar and then as far south as Scarborough, taking in major fishing towns like Whitby.
An investigation by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), with the Environment Agency, the Marine Management Organisation and the Food Standards agency, suggested a naturally occurring “algal bloom” was probably responsible.
Locals, however, were not so sure. Cole’s association commissioned Tim Deere-Jones, a marine pollution researcher and consultant, to conduct an independent review of the event. He concluded: “Pyridine and its derivative compounds are currently the most likely causative factor behind the mass mortality of marine species along the north-east coast.” Pyridine, the report explained, is a toxic chemical compound “released into the environment as a waste product discharged from industrial processes”.
His report described how dredging, such as had occurred in the Tees Estuary, disturbs and releases the compound, and proposed that this was a likely cause of the marine mass mortality.
Angry ministers and devastated fishing communities
Deere-Jones’ conclusion angered some ministers and MPs. Meeting notes from February 2022, released to openDemocracy by the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), confirm that “relevant agencies” were scrambling to issue a “rebuttal” to the independent report following pressure from ministers seeking to shift the blame away from dredging activities.
A few days after ministers pressured agencies to kick back against the dredging claims, more dead crabs and lobsters washed up along the north-east coast. Defra responded by saying it would conduct “additional sampling”.
"Contaminated sediment from the bottom of the Tees was dredged in the weeks the crabs and lobsters started washing up dead"
Nevertheless, government agencies have continued to maintain that an algal bloom probably caused the deaths, despite evidence from released documents of high levels of uncertainty about this conclusion.
And DEFRA has refused to release email correspondence from its ministers Victoria Prentis and George Eustice relating to the incident, on the grounds that it was “manifestly unreasonable” and not in the public interest to publish the emails.
Meanwhile, the fishing communities affected by last year’s incident are still reporting lower-than-expected catches and the government decision to stick to the line that this was a naturally occurring incident provides the excuse to deny much-needed financial support to the struggling fisheries whilst simultaneously allowing the dredging in the Tees Estuary to continue uninterrupted.
In June, the MP for Stockton North, Alex Cunningham, introduced a debate in Parliament to discuss the case. Prentis again ruled out dredging as the cause, while also claiming: “We may never know for sure what caused the event.”
DEFRA told openDemocracy the investigation was “a complex area of research”.
A deep dive: did dredging cause this chaos?
Documents released by PD Ports to openDemocracy through EIR requests cast serious doubt on DEFRA’s continued insistence on ruling out dredging as a cause.
They reveal that huge amounts of contaminated sediment from the bottom of the Tees were dredged in the same weeks that tens of thousands of crabs and lobsters started washing up dead along the nearby coastline.
To bolster its algae theory, DEFRA provided a satellite image of a possible ‘bloom’ that appeared in the Tees Estuary between 9 and 15 October 2021. However, the image came with the caveat that some “uncertainties” remained on how to interpret “satellite data in near shore waters”. And openDemocracy has found that the timing and location of the satellite image coincides with PD Teesport’s dredging of over 317,000 tonnes of sediment, which was later disposed of at sea.
Internal documents released to openDemocracy suggest that agencies did not in fact rule out man-made activities as a cause of the bloom. Minutes of a meeting from December 2021 between the key agencies involved in the investigation, labelled “official sensitive”, noted: “This event is generally natural, but it does not mean it could not be influenced by human intervention.”
Another email between investigators at the UK Health Security Agency suggests: “Released nutrients from e.g. dredging could theoretically influence algal bloom.”
Other documents reveal that the Environment Agency (EA) seemingly ruled out both “algae toxins” and a “natural event” in a November 2021 presentation. The Powerpoint noted that the “behaviour and longevity mean it is unlikely that a ‘natural event’ caused the deaths”. The presentation noted that dredging was “not ruled out yet” and was the “most serious line of enquiry to be investigated”.
The released documents also show that the EA was aware of the high level of Pyridine in the dead crabs, with test results of crabs impacted by the pollution event showing Pyridine levels hitting 439.611mg/kg – a figure that is an eye-watering 7,000% higher than crabs sampled in Penzance during the same period.
The EA noted that: “Pyridine levels were the highest of all contaminants recorded.” Such high levels led to concerns being raised by the Food Standards Agency (FSA), which noted that this may have been the “root cause of the die-off”. The FSA also commented: “This level concludes that acute risk cannot be excluded.”
According to another document, also marked “official sensitive”, further testing of the dredging site was ruled out for financial reasons, despite repeated calls from the fishing community, with civil servants noting: “Retesting of the sites can’t occur because cost would be £50,000.”
A DEFRA spokesperson said: “Defra led a comprehensive investigation into the cause of dead crabs and lobsters that washed up on the north-east coast between October and December last year.
“Government scientists carried out extensive testing for chemicals and other pollutants, including pyridine, but concluded a naturally occurring algal bloom was the most likely cause. It’s a complex area of research – and we will continue to work with universities and other experts to understand it better.”

Are we supposed to read that lot.

Just one little problem here, from my days doing Admiralty charts, the tidal flow around UK is from North to South in the North Sea, so if it was caused by dredging the Tees, no deaths of shellfish would occur north of the Tees, but they do occur North of the Tees.

In the days of shipbuilding and oil and gas modules/FPSO construction surely the Tees was dredged on a regular I am sure to allow the movement of the structures to sail away ?

The Tees is dredged on a daily basis and has been for many years, not just for modules but for the ever larger tankers and bulk carriers from the 60’s onwards, yet the intensive dredging of a river full of heavy industrial pollution from the Chemical and steel industry had no similar effect.

well i took the dogs down on the fish sands at the last home game and never seen as many dead fully grown crabs about. you always got the odd one but that was rediculous a number.

Thats the executive summary i can post the full script if required

I think the point these people are making is that this is new dredging in a new area whereas the dredging for oil figs and the chemical tankers etc was in the same channels.
I am no expert on this issue but it does seem something bad has happened and a feeling of "cover up" is spreading.
But as Ben Houchen said "do you want these jobs (Teesworks etc)"?
Is it a price we may have to pay?
Did they know this would happen?

dredging seems to get the blame for everything nowadays including coast erosion in norfolk. i can remember dredgers being around in the 50,s so there is nothing new about the process.