Dale had 7 seasons in League One while Pools were in freefall, but it's all gone pear shaped for them in the last couple of seasons.

As usual off-the-field problems are looming large, as this BBC article tries to explain:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58883213

Sounds complicated. Can't blame the supporters for wanting a fan ownership model, but is it realistic on crowds of less than 2,500?

The missing fans probably changed back to being Man Utd fans now they doin shit.

about time they fall on hard times. with their crowds and interest in the town i,m surprised they have not done a chester, halifax or darlo before now. dodgy owners like the others with fans that deserve what they get. when the club and ground are laughed at by halifax fans when they were in the league you know you have a ptoblem. must be the only old league club i,d never shed a crocodile tear for if they went to the wall.

It's amazing how many sides relegated from league one go on to have a terrible following season. We where fortunate to bounce straight back up last time but certainly suffered when we did drop down again. I'm sure Raj will keep us as a stable feet on the ground club.

I'd wager a lot of current NL sides could survive in league one, let alone two. There have been a couple teams who have had double relegations recently, Chesterfield spring to mind and to be fair when we were relegated from league one we hardly looked great shakes in league two.

Looking at attendances, i think a few NL North sides have more fans than some league one clubs as well.

On fan ownership. It could be possible for Rochdale, Exeter are hardly Man U and they somehow pull it off.

It baffles me how teams like Stockport, Wrexham and Notts even Torquay are plying their trade in the tinpot and the likes of Rochdale, Crawley , Rotherham and Scunny have some how survived league football for so long. No doubt there is others in that Lancashire basin also hanging on by a thread. Think we will see alot more Bury and Maccesfields unfortunately over the next coming years. Salford and Fleetwood come to mind first.

i would not include rotherham now with that lot. a team who seem to rotate between league 1 and the championship. wish pools had their problem on the pitch.

Bit harsh. I've only been to Spotland a couple of times to watch Pools - their fans seemed friendly enough. It can't be easy for any lower league club so close to Mancland - Rochdale is only 14 miles from the centre of Manchester. And Spotland isn't that much of a dump - 3 new stands built in the 1990s.

I hope they don't do a Bury - I'd much rather see Forest Green, Salford or Harrogate go tits up.

too many clubs in lancashire anyway in todays world. too many fans want to follow success rather than their local side where they only really sleep in their house that actually is in that town. people commute more giving em less local pride than years ago where their lives were all involved in the town.

[quote="Flying Hogans"][

Bit harsh. I've only been to Spotland a couple of times to watch Pools - their fans seemed friendly enough.
It might be but its from a bit more experiance of the place than a few pools away games. Had a few mates who played for them and knew a couple of managers to speak to. Slagging someone off during the game and then all over the same player like a rash is not for me. A couple of seasons going into the players lounge there was a totally sickening experiance. The players i did know were glad to get out of it at the end of their contracts.

can't understand really any fan wanting another club to go 'tits up'.

Wouldn't wish it on anyone as ultimately it's not the fans that put clubs in that position. It was nearly the worst possible thing to happen to us and god knows what would of followed if we had went bust.

Not sure about now but I'd say Scunthorpe are less, less popular than Rochdale historically have been. Mind you their EFL days seem numbered. I always found it ironic Workington were voted out due to "low attendances", only to be replaced with the ever popular, fanatical, massive club of...Wimbledon.

Still....I wonder where all those Lincoln fans came from...

Agree in general but the 3 clubs I mentioned are rich men's vanity projects - before their sugar daddies came along they had tiny non-league followings, like hundreds of other clubs up and down the land. When those owners are gone or no longer interested their clubs' league status will almost certainly go with them - if they don't go out of business altogether.

Rochdale's fans have been supporting a football league club for exactly 100 years - see the difference?

[quote="Flying Hogans"][

Agree in general but the 3 clubs I mentioned are rich men's vanity projects - before their sugar daddies came along they had tiny non-league followings, like hundreds of other clubs up and down the land. When those owners are gone or no longer interested their clubs' league status will almost certainly go with them - if they don't go out of business altogether.

the only thing in their favour at these rich mens toy clubs is that those involved in them are local people and not from the other end of the country or abroad for that matter. who would not love a local bloke splashing stupid cash away at the vic for whatever reason it is.

Yes, but I wonder why these local benefactors didn't choose to take over a lower league club that was fairly close to their home and business interests rather than starting more or less from scratch?

If a multi-millionaire in Teesside decided to try and make Billingham Synthonia a football league club as his pet project rather than taking over Pools I'd be a bit vexed

if i win the 185m rest assured i shall be Pools Sugar daddy ... and i wont be going anywhere ha I wish !

I've wondered that a lot. I think it's a case of when it's a small club it's their own club and not someone elses. And that in their head they can attribute all its success to them.

As I said before. It was never Ken Hodcroft's Hartlepool, but it was always Brooks Milleson's Gretna.

The worst one was Rushden Diamonds, years of amateur history and gates hovering around 1,500 at Kettering down the road along with an EFL standard ground. But Mr. Doc Martins (he was so irrelevant I forgot his name) wanted HIS own club.

Aah Rushden & Diamonds, the only club I can say of, I attended every away match Pools played against them, even if it was only three matches
That said, they had a nice set up, the ground was canny and a decent enough team, but it rose from nowhere and disappeared equally quickly despite the appearance of a club on the up. Once the money stopped, the club collapsed.
Having the ground next to the factory who financed the club was a bit surreal, but useful for parking on match days. The jobs went East (China) and the club went west, the club dies next to the factory who made it possible.
I’d visited the factory shop, but after the jobs went overseas Inever bought another pair of Doc Martins, I tried some later, but the fit was shit!

one thing in its favour was it must be the only club shop where you could buy something that wasn,t a rip off. only through mine away a couple of years back that i bought there.

well at least setting up that club avoided match officials going to the wrong place. there was rushden town and rushton town in the same league in the same county. know one ex football league ref who went to the wrong ground after a telephone last minute appointment. ken baker from rugby if anyone still remembers him.

well the blokes from fleetwood and fylde both wanted to invest or take over blackpool in the oyston days before they started their projects. fleetwoods owner actually told oyston that he,ll pass him on the way up. the same thing could really happen with a teeside millionaire especially if he was a poolie at heart. no one likes to be shown the door when they have something positive to offer and can prove it.

The trouble with local benevolent millionaires is ....

1. They’re thin on the ground.
2. You’re always living on a knife edge as you never know how long their ‘interest’ will last.
3. Fan owners with a life long commitment to the club are few and far between.

your second point is the most to worry about. no one lives forever no matter what they do when they are alive. bet blackburn fans wish jack walker was still alive and kicking.

Reminds me of Sunderland Ryhope Colliery Welfare and Sunderland Ryhope Community Association. Same league and same colours.

all this reminds me of when i moved to rugby. was asked to take a spare bus to stockton for a breakdown. i,d only 3 hours to go before my shift ended and flatly refused to do it. didn,t realise it was only a few miles down the road and my answer of getting United from middlesbrough or hartlepool to do it got their head scratching a bit. never realised there were two stocktons at all.

And even then it might all go wrong when you die, especially if your offspring can't stand the idea. They may be sick of the sight of your "toy" and get rid quick, again especially if they have been press ganged into being involved (against their will) whilst you were alive.
Then it starts all over again.
As an aside, if I won a large amount on the lottery, I think I would prefer to "help" the club rather than own it but I wouldn't just chuck a wedge into the pot. It would have to be for something specific that I would be prepared to pay for.

Or your rich owner could die in a ball of flames in his own Helicopter - tragic as it was and some chairman that Leicester City had/have. The fans will be glad his son has the same admiration still. That would be Pools' luck, finally get a stinking rich investor with the club at his heart only for him to go missing or die of high cholesterol due to too many parmos.

Not forgetting the half lots.

Bit similar to Matthew Harding, Vice Chairman, at Chelsea and big benefactor who died in Helicopter crash on his way back from a League Cup tie at Bolton.

This was on 22 October 1996 - a week short of 25 years

Mentioning Blackburn, staying at a place called Old Langho in North Lancashire out in the sticks. When I looked at the map there was a bigger place called Langho half a mile down the road, so decided to drive down for a quick look. The turn off sign to it said one way in and out so I thought ‘Village of the damned’ but it was a gated community with massive houses where you had to pass checkpoint Charlie to get in, but on turning around was confronted by Blackburn’s training ground....MASSIVE and numerous facilities on site.
Wonder how much that costs to maintain....?

i would love to own pools but certainly not under my name. i,d hate to come on here every morning reading posts that slag me off. you,ll never satisfy all fans at any club no matter the amount you chuck at it. on top of that there are bound to be an odd number, or odd fans, that have a lifes ambition in digging stuff up on your private life from 50 years ago that you yourself have forgotton.

The FA have done a great job restructering the non league pyramid. Lots of our local sides in NE now have the opportunity to progress up the system. Even get to the EFL if like been said if they have a de cent benefactor n fanbase.
Former Northern League clubs
South Shields
Hebbern
Dunston
Shilden
Stockton
Marske
Morpeth doing ok in the higher division.
Maybe some could be future national league teams.
Or maybe Darlo Gateshead or South Shields or Spennymoor make it to the EFL.
Good luck to all our non league teams

I for one would love to see the National League over time be dominated by Northern Clubs - The likes of Gateshead and York will no doubt reach those heights again within the next 5 years or so id think. But wouldnt it be great to see Stockton Town, South Shields, Spenny and dare i say it Darlo all playing at that level. Anyways lets look forwards to the FA cup draw and Salford this weekend. UTFP !

The FA restructure has helped north East teams very well after years of pandering to southern clubs in the pyramid. Having two southern step 3 leagues is a joke (3 if you count the isthmian).

Would love to see north east clubs break into the EFL like lancashire clubs have .

well without looking i,d guess the north east teams have higher gates than the southern ones in the national league south. doubt any of them can match south shields for a start. problem is they have some catching up to do on their southern rivels regarding league positions.

like stated before i guarantee there is NLN teams if not league below that have higher attendances than some of the small NL teams.

Stockton seem to be doing well in the new structure and even Marske have gained something - they beat chester 4-0 the other week.

A quick look at National League North stadiums compared to National League South ones shows the difference in standard.

The standard in the NL South would make poor grounds several divisions below, while I'd imagine a majority of NL North grounds are EFL standard such as York, Southport, Chester, Fylde and even Kidderminster.

Heaton Stannington of the Northern League Division 2 (that's the 6th tier of non league football) get about 200 now. The southern equivalents of the northern league are lucky to attract over 50 people!

I have always been amazed that Stockton Borough didn't have a more prominent football team. The population is over twice that of Hartlepool and more than Middlesbrough. Figures as at 2021.
I suppose it is tradition for their football fans to support Middlesbrough. Maybe Pools should make a concentrated effort to attract a few from Stockton. I'm sure they would enjoy the current atmosphere at the VIC, instead of the moaning minnies that the Boro have always attracted.

Bit of a play with numbers as regard Stockton, they like to inflate their population by including the likes of Yarm, Thornaby and Billingham into the equation which don’t see themselves as part of Stockton.

Most people in Stockton support Boro along with pockets of glory hunters. I was born in Stockton and I'm pretty sure I've never met another fan from there. Pools have a relatively large amount of fans in Billingham but most of them are exiles from the town itself. I personally find it strange how you can't find any Middlesbrough fans North of Stockton, yet you can find Sunderland fans as far south as Darlo.

Stockton Town was a long time coming though, for years the entire town didn't even have a team at all. Unless you count the old Stockton who relocated to become Thornaby FC or Norton Ancients.

The Scampi in a basket with a pint at the Stockton Fiesta wasn't bad.

As Derwent said, the population figures are for Stockton Borough - never heard of a council yet that asked the government to redraw its boundaries to make it smaller, though Yarm Town Council did try to unilaterally attach itself to North Yorkshire County Council a while back.

Also true that football fans in Stockton who aren't glory hunters are Boro supporters. Not really surprising as the two town centres are only 4 miles apart. It's like Gateshead and Newcastle, and for the same reason even if Stockton Town got into the National League they'd struggle to get home gates up to four figures.

I don't think Stockton would struggle with attendances considering South Shields and even Gateshead can occasionally hit four figures. If they'll get as far as the National League is doubtful though, especially since their ground has little room for improvement.

I was thinking of Gateshead when I wrote that. Nearly all their home gates in the NLN are below a thousand.

South Shields is a different case because they're nearly 12 miles from Newcastle, though they do have a decent transport link in the Metro. They've already shown they've got enough potential support for the National League, or even League 2. Their average gate in 2019/20 was 1,735 - better than Darlo!

think the national league north could be as far as they,d get with the possible fan numbers they could get along with the ground size. in the NL i,m sure they could match the 3 figure gates of boreham wood but that would need a wealthy backer to make up the money.

Marske are playing Gateshead today for a place in the FA Cup 1st round draw tomorrow, its live on ITV at 1.05pm apparently.
York v Morpeth Town is the only other fixture featuring local teams.
Torquay away still on the cards

It's hard to say but I've seen Stockton a couple of times and I think they'd even struggle at Northern Premier League Premier Division (step 3) level. They were dispatched pretty easily by National League North minnows Curzon Ashton in the FA cup this year and knocked out the Trophy in the first round. Despite that I've never not seen a good crowd there and the passion is definitely there to grow.

Marske have a really good team with players who should honestly be at a higher level, but ground grading will always be an issue for them. The locals (as in the houses next to the ground) hate them with a passion sadly, floodlights too bright or something like that.

Shields will have a decent ground when the new stand is finished, are in a decent area for transit like Mr. Hogans said and finally are in a good catchment area between Sunderland and Newcastle. For them the sky could honestly be the limit.

Stockton are in Level 4 - one below the Northern Premier League -same level as Marske. Marske beat Chester in National League north last time. So Gateshead are the same level as Chester. Will be an excellent game.

As you say Marske are an excellent team, but the ground can't really be extended. The houses on 2 sides with their back gardens on to the ground can't be much fun for games like today with a decent crowd. As you say players above that level, must be well paid.

Ryan Catterick in goal, former Pools reserve. Lost a load of weight and looks very good, they don't let many in. Think he could do a good job at Conference level now.

[quote="Brasil Brush"]

Marske have a really good team with players who should honestly be at a higher level, but ground grading will always be an issue for them. The locals (as in the houses next to the ground) hate them with a passion sadly, floodlights too bright or something like that.

must say in this case i do have some sympathy for the locals. no matter if you have lived there all your life or have moved into the small town i doubt you,d have expected an expanding football club to emerge on your doorstep. its residents who decide to buy a house near an established club or opposite the ground like oldham and then moan at every opportunity.

If Stockton were going to ever have a team at a decent level it would have happened by now... must be just happy drifting over to the boro.