Do you realise Mr I you are unfortunately one of the avenues people from outside see the club and you should be ashamed. I am glad most of the people that made this place great have left. Leaving you to talk with your bigoted and racist mates

totally with you on that one. this racist slur on anyone who agrees with that statement is well off the mark. its going to be talked about so much more because of it being millwall a known racist club. the point is my parner who isn,t racist and has a passing interest in football started to groan months ago with this knee thing. she actually has changed her stance slightly towards racially questions only because of this. i imagine she will not be on her own. should they have booed or not is the main question. personally i do not think they should have. either turned their backs in silence or get their fans group to ask the club to refain from doing it in the future if the majority of millall fans felt the same.

BLM has set back community relations in the UK.

Please tell me this years Vicar of Dibley xmas sermon is a wind up??

Maybe you're looking in the wrong places Mr. B? There's news articles about France (and a load of other countries) every day in the Guardian online, which is free.

This is yesterday's article:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... l-in-paris

As you can see, the French have got loads of their own problems, an unpopular right wing leader and are not having a great time managing Covid either!

Do you mean the group that used to gang up and basically bully people if they didn’t share there views? This place has actually improved over the last year or so. Mr i has a view whether it’s right or wrong called freedom of speech. I’m also sick of this blm thing being rammed down my throat, ive had enough Millwall fans have had enough and I’m sure millions of others have had enough too.

Bullying is a very serious problem on the bunker, I remember a very abusive moderator who used to delete posts and detail threads into political flamewars. Wont be civil won't be heard he used to say. Very intimidating individual.

Mr Compo, you are very welcome to come on here and join in discussions but turning up every now and again just to insult or have a go at Mr I or anyone else for that matter is not desirable. We have created a more tolerant and respectful atmosphere on here and we are all working hard at it.
I respectfully ask you to refrain from personal attacks on fellow members. Please have a think about it. It is up to you.

Does the bunker even have a bullying policy? every self respecting 21st century message board should have one.

Racist Tory

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ys-eustice

I remember him as well Mr Brush and a few others like him but he doesn't do it now so if he can be civil, reasonable and restrain himself, I'm sure others can.
You are right bullying was very serious on here but it very rarely takes place now. People still disagree but the disagreement is mostly about the content and not because of who the poster is.
I don't want to block any thread, any post or any person, neither does Mr I and we won't unless we have to. It's not personal, it's protecting the board and all of it's members on an equal basis and, when all of us play our part and respect each other's opinion, we get far better discussions. We don't want to ram behavioural rules down people's throats, we would rather everybody applied respect, restraint and common sense when they post.
Having said that all reasonable suggestions on how to make the bunker experience better are welcome and encouraged.

I agree with all of that, but it goes without saying, things are bound to improve, if an organisation or whatever loses 80% of its members, in this case posters. I think it was only ever a few people , but it was all their hangers on, who always seemed to exacerbate any problem by wading in , as though it was some kind of virtual sport to see the social media equivalent of a fox getting torn to shreds by the hounds. Many times I bore the brunt of it, and still come under fire now , for having views that are different from most other people. I like to think the board is better but I am inclined to think its just because those who disagree don't have the benefit of safety in numbers now and the ring leaders have disappeared. A bit like the racism thing, we thought it had disappeared , but then a couple of events happen , such as Brexit, BLM, 9/11, Corbyn etc etc and BOOM ! the racists re-appear.

Some politicians have always been accused of racism, leaders of parties included. Corbyn and anti semitism for instance.
Are they really racist, which of us can actually make a considered and accurate judgement.
I don't like politics or religion getting involved in sport ( unless they are funding improvements) and I don't like protest marches either. I've never ever got involved in any. I do my protesting or support at the polling booth.
I've never heard anybody actually say any particular lives don't matter.
They all matter to me but some people would accuse me that saying all lives matter is being racist, which I think is crass stupidity, simply because I'm including Black lives in what I say, which is actually agreeing with them, so how is that racist?? I actually think that singling one group out is being racist in itself.
If I saw a double decker bus heading towards a child my first thought would be "how can I stop that kid getting run over", I don't care who they are, all I care is they are in danger, so do something.
I have no problem with people "taking the knee" if that's what floats their boat and I will never get excited about football fans booing. At some stage or other they boo everything, including their own team. I think there is an impact limit to protests though and indeed praise. Why are we not clapping the NHS every Thursday, we soon stopped that didn't we??
I was once at Cardiff Arms Park for a rugby match, with two Welsh friends from my village. The principle guests were Prince Charles and Princess Diana. Diana was cheered and Charles was booed. My mates asked me was I bothered by that.
Not at all, I said, and I bet he isn't either, it is your prince they are booing !!!

Who knows, I guess some are, Corbyn isn't anti semitic by the way, you are getting confused with someone who doesnt like the way Israel treats Palestinians. I suppose its the same confusion with racists, a lot arent racists, but just think they are superior beings to black people and white for that matter, though I can see how that could be construed as racism , I would imagine Eustace fits into that category.

That's the point I'm making, He/she is a racist is thrown around all over the place. It's so easy to categorise someone you don't know, especially on a message board where so many people could be on a wind up or mischief making.
The biggest, bigotted racist I've ever met is an Indian. I'm no expert on their caste system but he really does put some of the people of his nation down who he considers to be far inferior to himself.
I have some Bangladeshi friends who are perfect gentlemen but he also hates the Bangladeshis.
He once criticised me for associating with them.
Nasty Nasty man.

I haven’t insulted him I stated a fact that he should be ashamed at the posts he puts out there and are viewed by me at having a racist undertone

Yes, the caste system just another version of our class system, all about one group of people thinking they are superior to another. Sometimes its racism other times just people being absolute twats? whatever , both are not good . I wouldn't bow or curtsey to anyone unless my life depended on it. The worst person I met like that was a Ugandan Indian, not sure if she was a Sikh or a Hindu, but whatever she was she thought the other one were dogshit. Apparently after Britain left Uganda , her lot , who sucked up to the British, and therefore some of them landed in good jobs and had quite a good standard of living , where chased out of Uganda by the niggers, who wanted their country back, and why not?. She was toxic though.

Funny that Mr H, the guy I'm referring to is also a Ugandan Asian.

Freedom of Expression..isn't that Article 10 of the Human Rights Act ??

This is a statement issued by Millwall Supporters club after the events yesterday.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EokLUECXYAkA1kc.jpg

Got to say well said Derwent

Bit of a lame attempt Hidden, read the full interview before naming people as racists
“There have been problems obviously with racism in football in the past. It’s right that that’s called out and challenged when we see it … If people choose to express their view in a particular way that should always be respected.”

Its something typical of the woke left that they label anyone who doesn't agree with them as racist or whatever other tag that suits the situation.

Me ! Woke

There is a problem on the left with that at the moment. but its no different to you lot on the right calling everyone who doesnt sing the national anthem when they wake up or cover themselves in poppies on Remembrance Sunday as Marxists and traitors.

You lot in the right? Horden take a breath and get a grip

Well thats the problem Boston, its developed into left and right, when really we are all cut from the same cloth ( working class) and our views are not that far apart when we step back and be talk rationally about things, we certainly share the same problems and fears. The rich and powerful must be laughing their socks off, at us tearing strips off each other , bounders like Farage and Johnson who have nothing in common with you and I. The difference is I realise this, not sure my brothers on the other side of the political divide do though, they are being tucked up like Kippers.

Well thats where you are wrong. If people choose not to sing the anthem or cover themselves in poppies then thats their choice, I don't force it on them. I have friends who wouldn't do either of the above for religious reasons and I wouldn't dare have a go at them for doing so.
Its the same with friends of mine who wanted to remain or have labour in, I don't have a problem with them but I do have a problem when people have a go at me for my choices in the referendum and last election.
If you go on twitter you see the left calling tory voters / leavers all sorts of names like scum, c*nts etc. You hardly ever, if at all, see it in the other direction. There may be some piss taking or calling out of hypocrisy but thats it.
Its the same with the knee thing, if you don't agree with it you are racist. Its like saying all muslims are terrorists.

TV adverts.
Changed very quickly this year.

Tolerance levels on the Bunker are probably the best ever.
I actually miss that poster who used to disagree with almost everyone mainly me and then get his small army fanclub to join in.

That's your opinion, and I think its bullshit. Both sides have a go at each other, and I have been reasonable enough to say as much, in my reply to Bostonpoolie. You lot have for years, not just recently always been calling for people to be kicked out of the country if they don't like it ( lefties) go back where you come from if you dont like our customs( immigrants) and bomb the bastards ( any country who dared to stand up to the UK or our bosom buddies ( the yanks ) or hang the bastards , bring back the death penalty ( anyone convicted of a sex crime before they even stood trial ) They may not be a racists as such, but people like this don't come across as a nice or intelligent people

What these racists have done at Millwall is ruined what that football club and the decent people in their community stand for. What they’ve done is booed and condemned a peaceful gesture which was put in place to highlight, combat and stop any discriminatory behaviour and racism. That’s it - that’s all that gesture was. If you are not a racist then what is your problem with it?

You do have to wonder why Priti Patel's Con-Air flights schedule has upset them so much .

I actually miss that poster who used to disagree with almost everyone mainly me and then get his small army fanclub to join in.

Carefull KPG he might think we miss him and he might come back.

PJ surely?

[quote="horden"][




Yes, the caste system just another version of our class system, all about one group of people thinking they are superior to another. Sometimes its racism other times just people being absolute twats? whatever , both are not good . I wouldn't bow or curtsey to anyone unless my life depended on it.
quicker people realize that the public school system is the scourge on our society the better. the poor BAME in this country and the poor whites have more in common than they actually realize. those in power will love the BLM movement as it will drive a wedge between everyone and thats what they want. if only the BLM movement itself dropped their political ideals, distanced themselves from millionaire footballers and realized who their true friends actually are. its certainly not the royal family, rich footballers and even priveledges rich members of parliament and other BAME of similar richness.

Not sure about the BLM and their political ideals, nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't go as far as them thinking niggers are superior, that would be the whole problem in reverse, some might well think/want that, I haven't read their manifesto and quite frankly don't want to.

I do think though , when a movement has the power to implement real change , its enemies gang up on it. Take Labour and Corbyn for example. Left wingers are tolerated in the Labour Party , if they are powerless and no more than sleeping partners, however when they become so powerful that they can actually force change , change that may impact on the bank accounts of the rich and famous, then the legions of hell are released upon them , so that they are defeated or removed, therefore change for the better doesnt take place, and the status quo remains, with the rich and famous allowed to sleep easily at night once again. Another example is petitions and marches , the rich love these , because they are harmless and change nothing , but they don't like people who take direct action that has the ability to hit them where it hurts, in the pocket , through strikes etc, yet again the state machinery swings into action with a series of lies and mis-truths aimed at discrediting those involved , calling them terrorists and anti British etc,

The likes of Marcus Rashford is a true friend of poor children whatever their background and he is a rich footballer. I don't understand why we have to separate the white poor from the black poor. They are the poor. When you categorise them as black poor and white poor you are encouraging the thought that they are different. They are not. Isn't that what we are trying to avoid and change. We have to promote that we are all the same and we all matter.

I don't get the argument that if you are sent to a public school then you become the scourge of the country. I know people who hated being sent to a private school and hated their parents for it. I also know privately educated people who are good solid citizens who are an asset and a credit to their communities.
It is very dangerous to make sweeping statements and categorise individual sections of society as being good or bad for the country. Isn't that what the BNP do???

Any faction who think they are less tolerated than another have to promote tolerance and the best way to do that is to show tolerance themselves.

black and white poor are both the same .many know this but a wedge between em has been attempted to put between them over the last few months. white priveledge at food banks in burnley i think not. the privelege exists from day one at private and public schools. go there and you,ve got your leg up you require. have 2 people both with the same educational achievments we all know who will find it easier to reach the top of their proffesion given everything about them is the same.

If you dont understand by now why its not racist to disagree with taking the knee then you never will.

I'm trying to understand where you are coming from Mr Accy. Who is trying to put a wedge between the poor, based on their background or appearance ??

I certainly have never given an interviewee a job based on which school the person went to. The best candidate gets the job for me. I don't know of any instance where that's happened in my experience. I have witnessed preference the other way round though. Some interviewers deliberately shy clear of the public school candidates because they think the world owes them a living, so it sometimes works against them. I don't agree with that attitude either but it happens. Best person all the time as far as I'm concerned.
Most interviewers take more notice of the degree people have attained when looking at their educational background and at University they are mostly all fee paying, so at least in part they are all fee paying. A CV is much more that just which school the person attended, especially when the position you are interviewing for puts emphasis on experience and career progression so far. You've got to credit HR professionals with some savvy. A well presented CV is more likely to get you on the short list than your Alma Mater.
If I was doing the recruitment for a football club, I would base my judgement on what the manager requires and, as there are a lot of black players employed in football, there doesn't appear to be much racial discrimination. I think it is fair to say that any racism present comes from the terraces and they don't decide who gets employed or not.

I don't understand where the Burnley food banks come in. I can't see where privilege and food banks come into the same sentence unless you are saying that there is discrimination against some people in the queue based on their background. I have collected for food banks but luckily I've never had to take my place in the queue to receive anything. For that I am grateful.

I am not saying its racist to disagree with it, what I am saying is its wrong to boo it, and anyone doing so, has to accept that people will probably think that they are possibly racist. If you don't agree, you don't agree, but booing it is something entirely different altogether. If you do that you are showing disrespect to the black players at your club , why would a supporter do that ? any logical rational person would think that person was racist.

Great response from Colchester United. I hope we would do the same, RACISTS AND SCUMBAGS NOT WELCOME AT VICTORIA PARK

https://www.cu-fc.com/news/2020/decembe ... statement/

Divide and conquer, a tried and tested formula, that has never failed the upper classes.

Agree , good and bad on both sides of the tracks. I think you have to generalise to a degree, I do it all the time, otherwise most debates would fall at the first hurdle , but I see what you are getting at.

You might be fair at interviews Derwent , but others might not be. There is discrimination taking place all around us, always has , always will. The Civil Service where I used to work , was primarily made up of females, why was that? I have been interviewed by a panel of 3 females, I was told later by a friend that should never happen, needless to say I never got the job. I think you have a rather inflated view of HR professionals, but thats just my opinion. A reason once given for the lack of black policeman climbing the ladder within the force, was that the senior policeman interviewing who was invariably a white man , sub consciously was looking for a younger version of himself when carrying out interviews, obviously that could only be a man with the same skin colour. I think the same thing happens in the Civil Service.

When was the last time HUFC employed a black person who wasnt a player? I think a bit of positive discrimination is in order here.

To address the food bank thing, someone perfectly described the lockdown a few months ago, when they said, its those with money, who are ordering things online and its the underclass/low paid who are out in the rain on a Sunday afternoon doing the delivering.

How many black persons have applied for a job at Pools?

My perspective of HR is that when a vacancy arrives they are responsible to advertise it. On receipt of the applications they forward them to the relevant department who in turn make out a short list for the HR department to arrange interviews. The interviews are then held with senior members of that department and a member of the HR team. My experience is that the HR team member has little say on the final appointment.
As for being interviewed by three females I don’t know anything against it.

Good question? I don't know. I think given the circumstances Pools should though actively pursue employment of a black or BAME person, aka positive discrimination. Hopefully for Pools, no black person has previously applied, or it could lead them open to claims of discrimination. Clubs have to be clued up about these things in the modern day, as a club we probably aren't. Its a club that has just muddled along for the best part of its history and seems stuck in a 20th century time warp.

Is our owner not black?

Sol Campbell could be our next manager if Challinor doesn’t get his finger out. Perish the thought we think we have it bad now, wait till he gets the job.

[quote="derwent"][

I'm trying to understand where you are coming from Mr Accy. Who is trying to put a wedge between the poor, based on their background or appearance ??

I certainly have never given an interviewee a job based on which school the person went to. The best candidate gets the job for me.
actually the BLM have put a wedge between white poor and black poor who are both in the same boat. this is done by the white priveledge statement they come out with. thats the reason i stated food banks as a total opposite to this. as for best person for the job. this should be totally obvious, but where box ticking condidates are employed this is more important. when you look at both sides of the house of commons, present and ex prime ministers you must agree there is a bias towards ex public school people .

My attitude at interviews was quite simple and it comes from my dad. He always said "always try to do your best".
Any job I have been given that is what I try to do. I sometimes get called a perfectionist but I'm not really. I just find it difficult to accept second best, especially from myself.
My job when interviewing was to do my level best to get the best person for the job and the company and that is what I used to focus on. I never sat down to the job thinking I have got to be fair here, although I agree it could be construed that way.

The only time I would criticise three members of the same sex being the sole occupants of the interview panel is if they were not the best three available, once again putting the emphasis on the best people to do the job. If the best three are all of the same sex then so be it.
I don't know which part of the Civil service you were in, for it to be predominately female, so I wouldn't attempt to tackle that question without further information.

I haven't got an inflated view of HR professionals, all I said that is you have to credit them with some savvy. What I was referring to was that they are the people who keep the panel au fait with employment law and advise on matters of discrimination and the like and they would do that in order to avoid recrimination.

On your Police example, I think the people who put forward the subconscious idea may be right but equally they may be wrong. Unless white interviewers, in substantial numbers, volunteer the information that they were knowingly leaning towards white applicants, that theory will never be substantiated. For a start anybody admitting to leaning that way is virtually admitting to have racist tendencies. As it is subconscious anyway, who will admit to it? What percentage of police applicants are black is the first question I would ask because if only a small number apply it is a fair possibility only a small number will be successful. The same applies to your question on Pools. The first question is how many have applied, not how many have they employed. Only then will you know the extent of any discrimination that can be laid at Pools door. Going back to the theory you put forward that people employ images of themselves then you would expect a few Raj images down Clarence Road. I don't think that has happened so another nail in the coffin of that theory.

On the foodbank point.
Obviously the people buying on line can afford to do so and delivery drivers are in the low paid category. We could encourage the on line suppliers to pay the drivers more but would that put the prices up, and would that mean the sales would go down, and would that subsequently mean some drivers are paid off. I'm not clever enough to offer a balanced solution to that one.

I think the BLM have a lot to do with the wedge and agree with you, I just wasn't sure that is what you meant.

The best person for the job is obvious to me. Totally obvious.

You are also right about the make up of parliament and past PM's but first of all they have to be elected by us as an MP and then they have to put themselves, as individuals, up for further election for the leadership and have to be endorsed by us again, apart from the times when they resign etc and their deputies take over. Maybe ex public schoolboys are the ones who fancy the job but I don't think the electorate vote on the basis of which school they went to, not to my knowledge anyway and I certainly don't. You can only vote for what is put in front of you and if the majority/all are privately educated then it is one of them who gets the job. Until the whole system is changed then we have what we have so good luck with solving that one.