There is shocking news every day Rolls Royce, Lookers, Shearings etc etc.
Its clear this will continue and increase especially in sectors that cant adapt to social distancing.
Can imagine this will affect all but especially the young and older worker.
Schemes of public works were used in the past but more than this is needed and some truly innovative ideas are required.
Lower the retirement age for workers in there 60s for a few years if the position is replaced with a younger worker??

Capitalism is in crisis , this was going to happen anyway , the pandemic has just speeded up the process. The retirement age should never be what it is. The retirement age should be 60 , job sharing should be encouraged , and a universal basic income should be considered for those happy to live a simpler life without the worry of living in poverty.

A nice idea Mr Horden but that retirement income is precisely the reason that France is in crisis. They simply cannot afford it and nor can we. To pay that sort of income tax would have to be about 50%.

The point i am driving at here is it is in no ones interest for unemployment to be high. Its not good for capitalism, the Exchequer and it aint good for the workers and society.
Its going to mean a whole raft of of policies which are clever and innovative.
The balance of it will dictate what our country will look like in 10 years time. Will it be dictated by the right wing of the government or a more cross party consensus type plan that will do the best to mitigate the negative effects of unemployment on us all.
This i think will be the real test of the BJ and DC.

I believe there will be a sea change in attitudes after this. The upside has been the re-establishment of a community spirit and looking after each other. If Politics can move to the same plane then we have a chance.

I’m sure we can all agree so far but here’s the grenade.... I think Boris is the man to carry that through.

So if you earn a million a year, what is wrong with paying 50% tax?. Its a crisis either way, only one gives everyone a little bit of the cake whereas the other leaves lots without any cake. Plenty of people , even many ordinary people seem to have plenty of money to burn on second homes, shares, cruises, new cars etc, so raising tax shouldn't be the burden some might think it to be. Tax companies making a fortune like Amazon , Facebook etc and tax individuals and the monarchy. Two bad choices but surely the one that helps everyone and makes the world a better place is the best of the two.

Is France in crisis? if it is , is it in anymore of a crisis than the UK , where according to you we aren't doing what France is doing. Of course Covid 19 puts a different slant on things , with the UK in the long term , due to the negligence of its tory government now probably facing a bigger financial burden than the likes of France and Germany.

France was doing terribly with the yellow vest protests. That was a direct result of Macron trying to balance the books and levelling the 'smee' payments and pensions.

If I earned a million I would already be paying more than half that in tax, I was talking about the rank and file. You can't halve it all ways Ron. Now on non tax paying multinationals I think we would find a clear agreement.

There has to be , or else we are all fooked. The big question is whether the pandemic will be paid for by the rich or continuing attacks on the poor.

Only last week on tv Easyjet were saying it will be 2023 before the amount of flights return to 2019 levels. That's exactly the problem with capitalist greed, we are supposed to be tackling climate change that is a threat to us all , whether rich or poor, yet all EasyJet are concerned about is the bottom line and shareholder dividends. No doubt they will be hoping there are more flights in 2024 than 2023 , this just cant be allowed to go, everyone needs to pay their fair share of tax , expect less money in the bank accounts and in respect of the planet/climate , reign in their lifestyles. I realise this is not very appealing , but this is where we are at , we have brought this upon ourselves , and now we need to sort it out , otherwise a dystopian future awaits , and that wont be very appealing either , especially for the ones who lose out.

Its got to be more than increasing tax and blanket government spending or cutbacks. Yes ok targeted tax increases and government spending decisions but we cant have polarised political slagging matches about everything.
These twats who we vote for need to start sitting down and talking and it will be interesting to see how BJ and KS interact.
Oh and there is the Brexit negotiations .......

Must remember to use the word dystopian more often.

as

So if you earn a million a year, what is wrong with paying 50% tax?. Its a crisis either way, only one gives everyone a little bit of the cake whereas the other leaves lots without any cake. Plenty of people , even many ordinary people seem to have plenty of money to burn on second homes, shares, cruises, new cars etc, so raising tax shouldn't be the burden some might think it to be. Tax companies making a fortune like Amazon , Facebook etc and tax individuals and the monarchy. Two bad choices but surely the one that helps everyone and makes the world a better place is the best of the two.

thats the british disease. the complete hatred of paying any income tax whatsoever. then there,s the attempt to avoid paying it with all the legal and semi legal loopholes that are still with us. without any money coming in there can be nothing going out. even unemployment has to be paid for and thats akin to burning money. as for retirement income for the vast majority then just increase the retirement age once again to kill folk off in manual jobs. doubt many reach it anyway when they have to sweat a bit at work.

You didn’t read what I said and didn’t understand my point.

If you tax everyone at 50% it would make no difference to the very high earners because they’re already paying it now. On the other hand it would decimate the middle and lower earners.

I did and I do. Are they paying it though? I don't think it would decimate middle income earners , because as I have stated you can see how well they are doing at the moment by looking at their environmental footprint. As for low income earners , they should be paid more , and in my world they would be , paid for by the upper and middle classes/earners through fairer taxation.

People tax about tax % but people should look at what they pay in NI.
Someone on a salary £25k pays £2500 in tax and a whopping £1964 in NI.
It all goes in the same govt pot.
So as the personal allowance is £12500 the person on £25k pays a "tax" rate of 36%

I Can imagine that the government will benefit from the reduced use of cash in the economy with people paying by card or bank transfer making the transaction visable to HMRC.
The recent government help for the self employed was based on profits. Well how many self employed people make "profits"????
So many who have businesses that make no or small profits will get nout and they can hardly go back and say my accounts were a fabrication.
It's interesting to see which businesses are sticking to cash only given covid19. It's almost like an admission of guilt.
Got to feel for small businesses at this time though so I am not having a pop at them. If tax revenues need to be addressed it's the likes of Amazon Google etc who need persuing and I think the EU had plans to do this but we are leaving the EU.

Grand Hotel owners Best Western in administration all staff made redundant.
I assume if they were furloughed prior they now stop getting the 80% and have to live on any redundancy money and job-seekers allowance.

Can't see anything about Best Western going into administration? Big firm and another couple of big hotels go pop down here if true.

There was a post from the ex manager as to this on Facebook.......perhaps it should read the Grand Hotel Hartlepool in administration if say it a franchise?
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/tees ... r-18374797

5000 to go at Centrica (British Gas etc).
Mass unemployment looms........what the plan?

Currently those who earn 50k plus pay at 40% plus NI at 20% over their respective thresholds so 50% isn’t a huge hike relatively speaking.

Below 50k it’s 20% plus NI. So your 50% would crucify the middle earners around the 30/40k mark, which is not a huge wage these days by any means.

Our opinions differ. I don't think it would crucify middle earners. As I said earlier, you only have to look at their footprint to see they do okay , in many cases their partners are also earning 30/40k as well , so that's 60/80k a year, that's a decent standard of living by anyone's standards . Also that standard of living also frees up money to invest in stocks and shares and buying second homes , therefore further widening the income divide. If we wish to save this country from becoming the 51st state of America , then middle earners need to contribute as well , not just the rich.

Our opinions differ. I don't think it would crucify middle earners. As I said earlier, you only have to look at their environmental footprint to see they do okay , in many cases their partners are also earning 30/40k as well , so that's 60/80k a year, that's a decent standard of living by anyone's standards. Also that standard of living also frees up money to invest in stocks and shares and the buying of second homes , therefore further widening the income divide. In my opinion 35k is enough to live a comfortable existence , anyone making a case for any more is being greedy , but that's just my opinion.

If we wish to save this country from becoming the 51st state of America , then middle earners need to contribute as well , not just the rich.

[quote="horden"]. In my opinion 35k is enough to live a comfortable existence , anyone making a case for any more is being greedy , but that's just my opinion.

35k would be a good screw anywhere in the north of england. the problem in this country is the south east. if and i,d say when we get into mass unemployment that area will suffer the least. those out of work will attempt to get work down there and due to house ptices in every sector out of their league it will mean more commuting. why have not more firms moved to the north east and west cymbria is beyond me. they could lower their wage bill overnight. being a stagecoach bus mechanic seems to be of less value however in hartlepool. they get 6 quid a hour less than my lad gets in rugby.

I think you could survive on 35k anywhere in the UK , but it goes a lot further in the North and some of the former industrial parts of the UK. The North/South divide and income divide in general is a product of the politics of the last 40 years, especially in relation to house prices , Mr I can maybe answer that one , as its his party that are largely responsible for British obsession with the buying of property as an investment.

more of that party instilling snobbery into millions of people where renters like me were actually looked down on by the new property buyers. their houses became a millstone round their necks in many cases and ended up just working hours and hours extra overtime for bricks and morter they eventually only slept in. when overtime became scarce their wives had to go out working whether they wanted to do or not. modern day family life was born with thatcher in the good old 80,s.

I’ve said before that I think Maggie dropped the ball when she sold off council houses without a program to replace them. As for renting, absolutely nothing wrong with renting your house from a council or housing association. Private renting with 6 month at a time created constant uncertainty. The tenancies should be open ended with no right to evict unless you don’t pay the rent, destroy the property or by by agreement.

Ultimately as long as you’ve got security of occupancy then renting is a far better option for many.

I think there should be a supply of council house for rent in every town and city, without the opportunity to buy, so that people have the choice. It gives people a start and, if they so wish, they can join the property ladder later by buying in the private housing market or stay renting all of their lives.
I will say though that the opportunity to buy all those years ago did establish an ability to leave something to the kids and still does.
There needs to be a balance involving both.

"The number of people claiming work-related benefits - which includes the unemployed - Is up 126% to 2.8 million.
But economists say the full effect on employment will not be felt until wage support schemes end in October."
All according to the BBC.
Lets see what plans emerge over the next few months.

Well said mr derwent.