Dont disagree Horen. My post wasnt really referring to that. More the fact that the jobs they do still need doing and wont be done if the only foreign workers allowed here are highly skilled professionals. And I completely agree about the minimum wage.

What about the European Defence Union E11/E12.........European army by the back door being pursued by the current conservative government based on an initiative set out by the French / Macron in 2017.
All very under the counter stuff as it would be very embarrassing to a Tory government.
Is the uk seriously capable of mounting any significant operation without the support of our allies?

Who cares anyway? We are a small island that has long since been the keeper of world peace. Its about time those thinking we are gave their heads a shake. Its about time people realised their isnt a british empire any more. Thank god.

All turning on each other now .It's Flint v Thornberry today.What a mess they are.

To be fair to Boris, that's the Manifesto he ran on, and the others knew it - it's a bit late for them to back out now. Whether he delivers it - whether it's even deliverable - is another matter, but that's the bed they have as a party agreed to lie on, so...

Johnson won and brexit it happening. What's not so clear is how he will deliver 50,000 new nurses 40 new hospitals and mass prosperity brexit will deliver. With the added complications of winning seats he never thought he would he has to spend even more now. All of those jobs he will have to create post brexit as well. He has made huge promises and cant back off now and blame any opposition.

I expect an announcement on the 40 new hospitals before christmas and I expect my firm to win at least 2 of them. We cant wait to get started.

Just out of interest how does a government actually deliver all of the new jobs promised when they wont be employing anyone or making anything? Did the people of Burnley think that through? If I was a billionaire investor I wouldnt invest in darkest Lancashire would you?

They’ve already said the 50,000 new nurses thing might take ten years and that they don’t know how they’ll keep the 18,000.

I imagine Johnson will deny ever mentioning getting Brexit done next.

To be honest I can’t be bothered with all these arguments it’s over and all the whinging and moaning won’t change anything but there are just two things, Valient says more people didn’t vote Tory than did well look at Hartlepool, over 25000 people did not vote Labour who managed 11000. You can make figures look what you want. The other thing is Labour MPs are now admitting they got it wrong well if that is true surely all the idiots who didn’t vote for them must have got it write. I have just read that three Labour councillors in Trimdon, Labour heartland, have left the party, well if people like them, Labour diehards, have given up on Labour what sort of message that send out.

No one is arguing that in terms of the electorate Labour got it wrong. But as we now have a tory government with a large majority its now their problem to sort out. Nowt to do with Labour. Labour for the next 5 years are redundant.

Johnson promised to get brexit done and make everyone prosperous. He now needs to deliver. No excuses. And I want my 40 new hospitals to build now as well. And I want 50,000 more nurses in Hospitals as well.

Its all on Boris now.

and Labour didnt get brexit wrong. they got the mood wrong. Doesnt make Brexit right. We will find out in the 10 years whether brexit was right or not.

You've just about summed it up young man.
Like it or not, until labour become electable, we have the tories well into the dark, distant future. There is no alternative. Plus the fact we need a credible opposition and i can't see us getting that any time soon.
You are right about labour diehards turning their backs on labour, hundreds of thousands of them. Instead of trying to get them back Momentum types are labelling them all sorts of names, none of which will encourage them to go back.
Momentum wanted all the soft centre blairites out of the party and they have achieved that. It was the Blairites that made the party electable in 1997 and anybody who disputes that corbyn, momentum and hardline line leftists have now made the party unelectable, needs to have really strong words with themselves.

I think we should now put all this to bed and let them get on with it. Beating ourselves up, and each other, isn't going to to improve anything.

Let them all have their inquests and leader elections and periods of reflection and see what they come up with.

However the bottom line is labour have to make themselves electable or continue to take the consequences.
The day everybody realises this and accepts it, is the day we start to move forward.

An interesting side note of the election is that if the voting was for under 35s only Labour would have won by a landslide. If was over 45s only the conservatives would have won even more seats.

So yet again the old crusties are makin sure youngsters get the government they dont want.

Who would have thought it.

so now we are definitely getting brexit done, even though the next generation dont want it. I would ban the over 60s voting.

I don’t know where you get these figures from they are just speculation. So you would stop people with knowledge and experience from voting. Remember the last labour left the country in a financial mess.

That is the best suggestion you have ever come up with.
I'm assuming you would also stop the over 60's from paying tax as well.
No say ......no pay.
As soon as you like. I'm voting for you.
No taxation without representation..............I like the sound of that. I wonder if it will catch on.
I knew if you posted long enough you would hit the jackpot.

That is the best suggestion you have ever come up with.
I'm assuming you would also stop the over 60's from paying tax as well.
No say ......no pay.
As soon as you like. I'm voting for you.
No taxation without representation..............I like the sound of that. I wonder if it will catch on.
I knew if you posted long enough you would hit the jackpot.

Your last post wasnt that good you felt the need to repeat yourself.

I was joking about the over 60s voting. Thought that was pretty obvious. I will send out a 2 minute warning next time.

Interesting article

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 46661.html

That’s why we did not vote proportional representation we would always be in termoil. The only ones who want this are parties like Lib/Dems who have no chance of getting in and having someone like Nick Clegg swanning around as Deputy PM.

recession? Who cares. We have taken back control.

To be honest I believe the election was based on two things, Brexit and Johnson or Corbyn for PM.
You had the choice between a man who had the best education money could buy (Eton), a degree from one of the worlds best universities (Oxford) who went on to beat the darling of London Ken Livingston to be mayor of one of the biggest cities in the world and he and he did such a bad job that labour stronghold London voted him in for a second term. He then began a political career and won four rounds of votes to become party leader. Or
A man who left school with 2 A Levels grade E (you get that for turning up) dropped out of university after 1 year and visited S.American Marxist countries. On returning he worked for unions before becoming an MP. In other words never had what we would call a proper job with responsibilities not even given a portfolio in his party. On top of that a known supporter of some terrorist organisation..
Not much of a choice.
As far as manifesto’s go we all know that all parties promise the earth before an election but all you got from Corbyn was hit the rich,hit the rich, to everything, in fact the rich would have been on universal credits by the time he was finished with-them!!

As I say all parties promise the world before elections. You don’t mention all Corbyn promises like four day weeks (apart for NHS) up to £30000 for waspi women and lots of other things which I doubt he could deliver. Even you don’t believe everything politians say.

You think being rich enough to go Eton, and by definition getting into Oxford qualifies you for PM?

Do you stand and doff your cap to rich landowners driving past you in Ofxord road?

And whats wrong with hitting the rich over and over again. They do it constantly to the working man. Did you miss the financial crash?

Well do you think Corbyn had the qualifications to be PM. All I am saying is if you were on an interview panel for a job of this proportion would you consider Corbyn. In my experience he wouldn’t have even got an interview with his CV.
By the way Oxford Rd was a posh area to me when I was young, a born and bred Wagga Lad.

Don’t they all look after each other. Losing the London mayor just shows how well Johnson did to win it not once but twice. Yes London a safe Labour area if they trusted him twice must mean something.

So was I, a joke worth repeating.

Some stats - seems the divide isn't class these days or North/South but age, appears a certain age group have sold their children / grandchildren down the river.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... h9MgLsPYoQ

I alluded to this earlier.

So johnson says he is bringing the country together under a one nation tory regime. Yet he has no genuine mandate in scotland. And he has no mandate at all with the under 40s. His one nation tory rule appears to be for the rich the blue rinse brigade and the far right lot that wanted brexit at any cost.

And lets face it most of the young that did vote Tory will belong in the rich daddy category.

Mr Horden.
I don't know how many stats you want or how many bags of sour grapes you want or how many straws you want to cling to but your form of Government was totally rejected by the electorate. More significantly your own kind turned against you. You know the reasons and you know where the blame lies.
Once again the oldies have come to the rescue of gullible youngsters and protected them from disaster, like oldies always do, like our parents and grandparents did.
It's our job.
An electable labour party is the only answer to the tories.
One day you'll stop blaming everybody and everything that comes round the corner and have a good look at yourselves and the part you played.
Unless of course you want the tories in power for the next generation.

It’s quite telling that the likes of Tommy Robinson and Katy Hopkins didn’t need to back some minority far right party they were telling people to vote conservative!!

Horden has merely quoted some facts from the election. How is that sour grapes? Dont you like facts? And yes the youth will be thanking all of us old crusties. Except in a generations time when they wont and we will be long gone and they will be left to pick up the pieces. Maybe your off spring wont be as thankful as you seem to think.

It would appear that most labour MPs have turned on Corbyn and his cronies saying that his policies were wrong. Well if they think that why would we want to vote for them.
The bottom line is that at the time of the election the party was rubbish and people just baulked at the thought of a government run by Corbyn with McDonnell and Abbott in senior positions.

Another strange thing I’ve noticed is people who voted Tory are still spending more time taking about Corbyn and Abbott than the are about the really trustworthy bloke they voted for delivering on all of those promises.

The elections gone now it’s time to look forward Johnson can’t hide in any more fridges it’s over to him.

I don't know who you are trying to convince, maybe yourself. Well good luck with that.
No UK wide party has a mandate in Scotland. Their main party want the break up of the uk.
And why do you keep quoting johnson......he is a liar isn't he???? Or so you keep telling us.
You are actually causing inflation and price rises in the uk with your ramblings. There isn't a bag of sour grapes to be had for love nor money.

Well let's quote the biggest fact from the election.

Conservatives in power with a massive majority.
Labour sent into oblivion.

There you are I can quote facts.

Yes we have just said that. Labour sent into oblivion by the rich the media the blue rinse mob the far right and thethicket get brexit done at any cost mob.

But not by the under 40s. Its a shame that its them that will pay for it and not the over 60s most of whom hanker back to the good old days and the british empire. They really shouldnt be allowed to vote on something that will affect people more in 10 years time than it will them now. Logans run got it right.

I'll go along with that, PJ but I'd like to add that there is massive furore also over corbyn et al within labour ranks.
Comments I've heard from tories include, you leave nice mr corbyn alone, look what he has done for the tory party. Let's face it he has done the tories a massive favour.

I agree....nowhere to hide for bj but we still need an effective opposition to hold him to account or he just might get away with more than he should.

Of course he will get away with more stuff. He has been given a huge mandate to do so by foolish ex labour voters so ingrained with their hatred of Corbyn they couldnt see the devil in front of them. Spread enough horse manure about Corbyn and deflect the real bile surrounding Johnson and watch the gullible fall for it.

so true derwent. no one can do anything about it now. just that the labour party need to use a bit of common sense in the new year and find an electable leader along with a similar shadow cabinet. practical policies that the country require and not policies that appeal just to their members that only look good in theory.

Look man. Corbyn was never going to win. he is 70 so needs to retire anyway. But Labour voters needed to stick together to stop Johnson being able to run a dictatorship. But people decided they disliked Corbyn more so gave the real evil one the dictatorship he craved. If every traditional labour voter had voted Labour they still wouldnt have won but at least there would have been some accountability.

In years to come people will accept that they screwed up giving Johnson this much freedom.

You still have a mental block against the real reason labour have been sent to oblivion.

Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott, momentum and the hard left Unelectable.

labour vote down, torys slightly up its hardly being sent to oblivion though.

As far as I can see the only bile on here is coming from you. You are a very bitter man and all because you can't accept the democratic will of the people. You couldn't with brexit and you can't now.
I don't think the way to get these ex labour voters back is to go around calling them names like foolish just because they didn't vote as you think they should have. If you want evidence of this find a mining constituency that now has a tory MP and go into the local miner's welfare and call the one's who voted tory using your favourite insults. I suggest you try Harworth in Bassetlaw, that's two miles from where i live. See what reaction you get in there.
On a personal note, I don't hate Corbyn, I hate what he stands for and I'm not alone in that am I.
Five years at least of your whingeing will be music to my ears cos it will remind me of the historic moment when honest down to earth working class folk refused to bow to communism by the back door.
Be open and honest, you know like you want johnson to be, and form your own party with reference to communism and communistic values........you can call it errrmm, The communist Party if you like, or any variation you like.
Leave labour to become credible again so the country can have at least a credible opposition and maybe a government in waiting.
Of course the first thing you'll require is honesty and guts. Are you up to that challenge??

It is hardly a setback though Mr Accrington. Maybe somewhere in between eh?

How many of these over 60s that you mention we’re alive during the heyday of the British Empire that you mistakenly believe they all crave to go back to?

So by your own reasoning then Blair’s Labour government was a dictatorship and had Corbyn’s Labour Party won this election with a clear majority then they would’ve been running a dictatorship too, that’s one strange interpretation of British politics- the words insane and bitter spring to mind but that might not be true, you could just be shit stirring instead.

too many.

So we have a huge proportion of the population aged well over 100?

Why didn’t any of the political parties mention that in their campaigns?

Blairs government became a dictatorship because he got too much power and then became a war criminal. I think you are misundertanding things here though. The tories are known as the Nasty party for a reason. You can love them all you like but I suspect you are comfortable financially and probably have shares.

This tory government will and can do whatever they like for the next five years and will do. And I forecast they will start out for say 2 to 3 years giving hand outs and starting to discuss major projects and major investments in the North. That will dry up but the flame will be re-lit just prior to the next election. They will win again and then pull the plug on everything. By which time Johnson will be nearing the time he hangs up his wig.

And lets just put this on record. I have never stated I thought it would happen or even wanted it to happen, and thats a huge majority for labour. So at least read up on what you are arguing against.

I am massive believer in proportional representation and by that system we would have a fairer and more moderate government now. One I could stomach even though it would be tory led.

Come on now you are not that dumb even for a tory. You knew exactly what I meant.