Anyone still behind this shit that’s spoiling football?

I remember people saying it was a good idea last summer.

That penalty that England got in the women’s Semi Final was never one in a million years but this shit fest provides at least one spot kick a match yet the joy is Hoovered from the equalising goal when a someone’s toe was offside? Can any goal be celebrated again until five minutes of checking?

It’s horrific. Fuck VAR.

Yup got it all spot on, I didnt think was a penalty at first but was a clear kick.

It wasn’t a penalty for me, it took it being slowed down from about five angles for anyone to see any type of contact. After the first replay even the commentator said ‘she just missed’

This bollocks has no place in football, neither were howlers or obvious errors it removes the joy and spirit from the game.

Contact does not equal a foul, that has got lost in the game it’s a contact sport. Slow motion creates a lot of penalties with this shitfest.

She only missed the ball because of the contact, u cant stop someone having a clear shot on goal.

They got them both correct, but I fucking hate the offside rulings.

They need to either fuck off using VAR for offsides, or scrap off side altogether.

Should only be used for red cards and penalty decisions

Fuck your reason I hate it

For me it’s not about be ‘right’ loads of wrong decisions are still allowed that influence the game, England’s second yellow? It’s a mess, totally spoiling football.

I hate it as well, even if it was a pen after 5 replays, its shit having to wait so long for a decision.

4 inches offside. How is that any real advantage?

But a corner when it’s not a corner, a free kick that leads to a goal are not important, also two yellows that lead to a red neither applicable to scrutiny? Only debatable penalties which are all given with shit show, everything is handball in the box and a toe nail is enough for offside.

Agree with this. What's the point of having a ref and linos if their decisions are going to be overturned for a foot being a fraction over an imaginary line at the approximate moment the ball was kicked?

No referee in real time at full speed would have seen that and given it as a penalty, that is why it wasn’t one. I doubt the Town End would have spotted that contact right in front of them. It’s the same with marginal offsides, the officials are generally quite good at that sort of level the score changing then going back after players are ready to kick off again is just awful shite

Read this back.

The thing I’ve struggled with VAR is the continued inconsistency. If England’s goal was disallowed for being a couple of inches offside, why wasn’t the penalty retaken as the USA keeper was clearly a foot off her line.

Hark at me getting agitated at the ladies football, maybe I’m not as much of an unreconstructed sexist as I once thought.

That’s a ridiculous post with all due respect, most officials and people in the crowd with functioning eyes could see what happened on that occasion, the fact you are going back 33 years for an example speaks volumes to how regular such a howler occurs. The frequency doesn’t justify this which is totally changing a game that didn’t have much wrong with it for the worse. Maybe bring in a managers challenge which can be used once or twice a game for such obvious howlers but I am for stopping at goal line technology.

It’s appalling, it doesn’t lend itself at all to subjective calls which take 8 replays to see what is now apparently an ‘obvious’ penalty!? These marginal offsides as are totally sucking the joy out of the game, plus it’s not eradicating controversy. Down with this mess.

I have and makes it sense to me, the penalty wasn’t given on the field by the referee because at full speed it was impossible to say if it that was penalty or not it was two people going for the same ball coming together. If it takes that many replays to spot any infringement then the referee has probably made a fair call at the time even the commentators who were biased towards England and were willing a foul spent the first two minutes of the check saying it wasn’t a penalty and that she just missed it.

Got to feel sorry for the refs, they get the big decisions correct and PJ is furious. Imagine if they got anything wrong?

I’m not furious I just enjoy the game and am annoyed someone in a suit is trying to spoil it.

Actually as well, according to VAR the officials made two wrong decisions which were corrected (clear and obvious errors according to this wank fest) The officials made two marginal calls at the time which were both fair enough for me.

I don't like the delay and would prefer to accept the idea that the officials sometimes get things wrong. I can live with it though, it does help to get more decisions right than wrong.

However, I think the use for offside should be stopped. Over the last few decades all the changes in the offside law have been to favour the forwards but now they're using VAR to detect extremely marginal offsides that don't give the forward any advantage. You've also got the weirdness of the linos being told not to flag because VAR will check offsides - that's almost like somebody decided that disallowed goals are a good thing and there should be more.

Finally why is everybody, including Phil Neville, praising the USA's game management? Morgan made a meal of any physical contact, including faking an eye injury to get Millie Bright booked, and there was a string of time wasting "injuries" late on. The ref even left Press on the touchline for about three minutes because it was so obvious she was wasting time and not injured. A lot of the game management just looked like standard cheating borrowed from the men's game to me.

I’m not going again until the town end is the ref


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The more Morgan was on camera the better tbh.

VAR has been an absolute shambles, especially in the Womens World Cup.

They gave her shoulder offside although her toes were offside too. Correct decision to the law. Problem is the laws aren't made for VAR so obviously something needs to change. The penalty I thought was probably correct in the end especially with it being for England haha but at first I didn't even think it was. I think we just need to develop a clear use for VAR and re-adapt laws to suit it especially offside.



That just about sums it up for me I wouldn't of been outraged either way.

I agree with Phil. At the end of the day you're either offside or you're not. And White was offside. I agree that because it's so marginal it can feel like justice isn't really being done but what's the alternative? Bring back the clear daylight rule? If people are angry that what seems a perfectly good goal was chalked off for nothing then it should be the offside rule they're upset at. Not VAR for correctly implementing it.

The penalty decision was also fair enough. White was clearly impeded from tapping the ball in. You can't let that pass as fair enough.

Disappointing for England. They should have at least taken it to extra time.

Because what is offside has changed so frequently since the rule was introduced, not that long ago the attacker got the benefit of the doubt on marginal calls. The current interpretation is wrong in my eyes you should have to be clearly ahead of the defender, not your toe or shoulder your full body.

It’s not perfect either, to be perfect they’d have to have a camera that moved exactly in sync with the ball and the attacking player to get it exact which sounds hi tech and pretty unfeasible, you are currently getting a camera angle that isn’t level with play. Football is a game that should flow, that should be exciting with moments that get people off their seats. People have almost stopped celebrating goals because they know what needs to come before it’s given that is not the game, it’s a joy Hoover.

Ultimately do you want to descend into a situation every soft penalty is given but good goals in open play are ruled out due to extremely marginal offsides? Why don’t we just start with a penalty shoot out to save time?

It needs readdressing though. Just because it's right now doesn't mean its 100% the way it should be. The goal was correctly given offside which no one is disputing she didn't gain any advantage in the position she was though so is that not harsh? Same as the Cameroon player against England and Lingard v Holland. Almost at the point where you can be offside because off your shoe size.

In cricket LBW gets umpires call if even if Hawkeye proves it was going to hit the stumps but i think it's less than 50% of the ball.

Giving the Ref and assistants the benefit in these marginal calls is the least that can be done in my opinion.

I completely agree with this. 100%. Similar to how the ball has to be fully over the line before it's a goal.

But ultimatley that's an issue with the offside rule. Not VAR.

The clear daylight version of the law makes it much easier for officials in the first place though and so they shouldn’t be reliant on VAR.

The most expensive players and top scorers in the Premier League next season are all going to be the best penalty takers. It’s just awful.

Theres never been such a rule as the attacker gets the benefit of the doubt, it's just crap made up by TV pundits.

Laws, not rules.

Never a law but I’m pretty sure it was a directive or understanding with officials. I doubt it was ‘made up’. Laws are interpreted in different ways, it’s another reason why VAR and Football don’t work together.

This article from 2004 has Keith Hackett confirming that previous interpretations have included periods when both attackers and defenders have been given the benefit of the doubt.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp

I think we established quite early in the thread that I want rid of VAR!

There was never a law saying give the advantage to attackers but every chnage of the offside law over time did that. At one point you had to have three opposing players (usually including the keeper) between you and the goal to be onside. Now, after a few stages of evolution, you need to be level with two. The changes were intended to reduce the use of the offside trap as a key defensive strategy because it was making football too boring.

The law needs to be updated to take account of VAR if they're going to continue to use VAR for offsides. Maybe limbs being offside is OK if the trunk of the body is level? Obviously the details would take some working out but the current situation is that attackers, who are likely to be facing goal and are therefore more likely to put an arm or leg in that direction, are being penalised even when their body is in line with the defender.

[quote="PJPoolie"]Laws, not rules.

have to agree to all your posts on this issue. i can talk from being a football referee and a football fan about this VAR nonsence. there are 3 officials at a game from decent level upwards plus a 4th official at football league level. if they are all used correctly which means binning the type of ref. who tells his assistants that only he will make decisions regarding foul play, then there is no need for the VAR rubbish. officials like fans at a game see stuff in real time so is VAR just for the armchair brigade. if the penalty had not been given or the offside goal stood i very much anyone would have spoken about the incidents after a day or so. the game has been sanitised too much already without use of technology to attempt to have any game error free.

Years ago the officials made decisions that were sometimes controversial and caused raging arguments in pubs, clubs, workplaces and any other venue where football fans congregated.
As Television became more and more an integral part of the game a momentous decision was made to have the ability to analyse almost every decision using slow motion and multi angle replays.
It could be argued that was the forerunner of goal line technology and then VAR.
VAR is in it's infancy and there are divided opinions on it, the same divided opinions that have always been prevailant in football and other sports.
Even when VAR gets it right some people just refuse to accept it. Forms of it are becoming more and more involved with sport in an attempt to "get it right" or "in the interests of fair play" but it does take something away from the "game"
We like to see action replays because our curiosity demands it but that's where it all started, in my humble opinion.
Football lovers refused to accept that the decisions of the match officials was final and used technology to prove their point and now we are faced with "ultimate technology" spoiling the entertainment.
Never was the saying " be careful what you wish for" more relevant.

I think officials should be allowed to give the decisions as they see them. VAR should only be used, where it is available, to correct what would be described in legal terms as manifest error or unseen violent conduct. VAR should not be used for mm assessment of offsides, its too disruptive to the flow of the game. I've never see rugby show offside decisions with mm precision and lines across the pitch.

its again just pandering to the armchair so called big match watchers and not most of us that freeze our nuts off actually going and watching live games on some freezing night in winter. with all this TV money splashing about it does make you wonder if the former is seen as the most important sector.

The thing that springs to my mind with all this is "computer says no"
I think there will be some changes in coming years as VAR ivolves or implodes, especially if the Big clubs spit their dummies out,.
I can hear it now, it's not fair ...were... who ever!!!
Thank F we don't have it at lower levels of football

oh dear lack of posting edit, that's evolves!!

Cricket has it spot on, allowing for human error enough to make a marginal call stay in favour of the original decision.
This is how it should be for football. Nobody is going to get every decision absolutely correct so instances of someone being offside by an inch should stay the decision of the on field officials. At the moment your body could be level but if you have you foot at a different angle to a defender you can be classed as offside, its stupid.