Just watching this on BT. Both teams are fucking terrible. How bad must we be to be so far behind them ?

Full division is shite.
But a few pundits n managers make it out to be a quality n hard league to get promotion from.

Well it clearly is a hard league to get out of when you're shite

Top of the league are more consistently less shite. Even when Pools flirted with relegation pre Chris Turner we weren't as bad as this division were we?!
No one can tell me they'd rather have Featherstone, James and Magnay over Di Lella, Baker and Ingram.

i watched the Solihull v Orient game and I thought it was a massive display of thuggery suitably disguised, as usual, as commitment.
The referee was harassed by the players from start to finish and that is all too evident in this league.
Why they put up with it is beyond me.
Top of the table clash.......gimme a break.
I have watched two seasons of this rubbish and my patience is wearing thinner by the day.
I want to back my club and support it both financially and actively but there needs to be a massive improvement in the handling of games and players by the officials and the authorities.
We all know what is needed to succeed in this league but whether we want to watch it week in and week out is another question.
I want to see an obvious moderation in some of the tactics allowed in this league and they are allowed, I'm convinced of that.
I'm not confident that this is going to happen or even encouraged, so the question hangs over whether we, as individuals, are prepared to put up with it.

We have got to (he says sat 3,500 miles away ) we have got to build a team capable of winning in more than one way to succeed at this level, like Orient managed to grind out what they needed yesterday. The good thing is they haven’t had to resort to tin hats every week and are still what you would call a football team. With Hignett as manager we aren’t going play in this this League like Lincoln or Solihull in terms of style but we certainly need plenty of the qualities teams like that have and get good at the ugly side of the game if we want to be in the mix. What we crave most is a winning team, start winning on a regular enough basis to get us in contention to get back up then I can’t see many caring about how it’s achieved given the rubbish we have put up with in recent years.

Nobody wants to be at this level it’s a horrible league and the football is crap, but our club needs us now more than ever.

Orient are back in the Football League at the second attempt. Solihull played us off the park a few weeks ago. I'd be happy to see the back of them via the playoffs - or Salford, take your pick.

The standard of officiating ranges from average to terrible - the clown in black who let Bromley get away with about a dozen second half stoppages for fake injuries to hold onto a 1-0 lead was unbelievably bad. Clueless refs like him need removing from the list - but it doesn't seem to happen.

There's no way Hignett will stoop to the Bromley level of gamesmanship, but Pools do need to toughen up and wise up to have any chance of getting out of this league. A couple of hard men are definitely needed.

[quote="Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father"]

The standard of officiating ranges from average to terrible - the clown in black who let Bromley get away with about a dozen second half stoppages for fake injuries to hold onto a 1-0 lead was unbelievably bad. Clueless refs like him need removing from the list - but it doesn't seem to happen.

its the system where the officials are more interested in what the assessor reports have to say about them than the teams they have to manage. they seem all cloans or clowns for me. look alike, all referee alike and avoid being controvesy like the plague like letting most things go. it will not change till the sweet FA change and that will take longer than it will take pools to get back into the league.

This season I have swerved some home games and all away games, apart from the Leamington cup game, just because I can't be arsed.
I will almost certainly renew my season ticket, even if I do pick and choose games. That way I will still be supporting the cause without the pain.
I never imagined it would come to this but the alternative is counter productive from the club's survival point of view.
Like PJ says, if the Vic does become a fortress and we win the majority of home games that will definitely make a difference.

Don't wish to denigrate anybody's posts, but how many times over the last 10 years have we heard the phrase " we must make Victoria Park a fortress "
Would be great if we actually managed to sign a player or two who might make that happen.
( wonder if the likes of Mick Tait & Gary Strodder are still available )?

Every club in the country has wished to make their ground a fortress ever since the first ground opened, and they will continue to wish that until the last ground shuts.

Home form this season.
Won 8
Lost 8
Drew6
Avoid defeat v Salford and it will be the first time in 8 seasons in a row where we lost more games than we've won.
Fortress Vic is coming back.
UTP.

I couldn't agree more ! So why do the club feel the need to trot out this tired old cliché year after year ?
We all know a sound home record is the bedrock to a successful season. Just wish they'd instill it into the player's !

I couldn't agree more ! So why do the club feel the need to trot out this tired old cliché year after year ?
We all know a sound home record is the bedrock to a successful season. Just wish they'd instill it into the player's ![/quote]

Thing is, during the early IOR years, I never expected to see us lose at home - it was FortressVic................

But you're right about the 'tired old cliche' and the first thing I'd like to instill into the players is..............'you're being paid for this, put some effort in...'

Does anyone seriously believe any player doesn't but effort in? That's a more tired cliché than fortress Vic!

At the end of the day its the players career, if it doesn't go well at Pools they could be looking for another line of work. I imagine they all want to do well and all try to, sometimes in sport though your confidence isn't high or the opposition are just all over you or sometimes both. The two seasons we've had at this level don't boil down to lack of effort it's the fact that the players we have had haven't been good enough and haven't had the the mental strength to consistently grind out results at this level.

[quote="PJPoolie"]Does anyone seriously believe any player doesn't but effort in? That's a more tired cliché than fortress Vic!

Yes I do - but don't bother giving me a PJ-Lecture.

You'd like to think so, but obviously it doesn't always apply, especially at the end of the season. Speaking after the Barrow game Hignett said he could see the players weren't 'at it' even in the warm up!

That's a slap in the face for the manager, not to mention the fans, and it'll be interesting to see what the starting 11 for the Salford game is.

IWeve all seen plenty of Pools games were certain players don't put the effort in.
Add in the fact they not very good it's a recipe for failure.

Better recruitment with a disciplariun manager required. Time for Higgy to drop the Mr nice guy image or the club will just continue to go round in circles of failure.

If we don't go up next season then I will give up on the hope of us ever getting bak in the football league.
Will still go but only selected games become part time.

I remember Cloughie once saying before travelling to an away game on a wet and windy night in February that he used to count the number of "hearts" getting on the bus.
Hignett refers to being prepared to do the "hard yards".
We supporters often say that we can forgive a lack of skill but not a lack of effort.
There must be something in it.
When you hear chants like " you're not fit to wear the shirt" and then read or witness fans clapping their team off even after a defeat, it demonstrates a reaction to effort or a lack of it

As for cliches in general.......there are lots of them, they are mostly worn out and older than most of us but they've stood the test of time and will continue to get rolled out, so it is really a bit pointless bothering yourself over them.
Reaction to cliches can become a cliche in itself and just as tedious. There are bigger and more important things to worry about, like us winning most of our home games.

Sometimes teams just aren’t at it though it happens especially when that team isn’t very good it doesn’t mean they consciously aren’t trying.

Gary Lineker was talking about this very subject on the podcast he does with Danny Baker this week and he said he’s never seen a professional footballer who doesn’t go on the pitch to do his best, he was specifically on about Manchester United and the notion that they had ‘downed tools’ under Mourinho and have again now. When really at the point when Mourniho left they were just rock bottom confidence wise and the manager had lost one or two. The new manager picked things up but that bounce was only going to last a certain period of time because the bottom line is they are an average team especially defensively. You can see some similarities with Pools situation now apart from we haven’t sounded hundreds of millions on players!

Plus as a fellow pro if you saw somebody not trying and costing the team he’s also potentially effecting your future so they wouldn’t get away with it in the dressing room. I wish we had players good enough to pick and choose when they turn it on the reality is this seasons budget was about half way to bottom of the half League (according to Hignett in one of the podcasts) and that probably reflects in the quality of the squad.

I don’t think that’s a lecture or provokes any sort of defensive arsey reply it’s an interesting debate and the easiest and fairest question to ask anyone suggesting players don’t put in effort would be which ones? Name them.

We need at least one player who is vocal and berates/puts players in their place/keeps players on their toes when the time is needed. Am not arsed if he wears the captains armband or any of that crap but no fucker says anything. From what iv seen Raynes is the nearest we have had this season to at least giving the players some direction and keeping them right.

Especially if Hignett sticks to younger players then they need a leader on the pitch, someone they are almost scared of. A Roy Keane type personality but also a good enough player to be able to command respect. Imagine they cost a lot of money like.

Does this read like Hignett thought his players were trying on Saturday?

"I am hugely frustrated," said Hignett.

"I said before the game we were not at it in the warm up. I mentioned it to the players. I said you're not on the beach yet, I want a proper performance.

"We were second best all over.

"Fair play to Barrow they were better than us - more craft, more guile.

If you don't want to run about as much as the other team you will struggle against anyone.

"We didn't play like we train."

Then again, the quotes are from Liam Kennedy, so you'll probably reckon he made the whole thing up

The same quotes were on the official site, I’m not sure he’s actually accusing the players of deliberately of not trying, more of being outplayed and playing shit. I doubt any of the players turned up on Monday to sack it off and let themselves down they didn’t perform and didn’t get going. Maybe part of that is Barrow played well and were far better on the day maybe part of what Tree has said comes into as well were a big part of what is missing from the team is mental strength and leaders on the pitch. Maybe more of our lads when things are going wrong step backwards and inwards rather than roll up their sleeves and try to do something about it?

Donaldson did say in his post match interview on poolsworld that one or two home truths emerged in the dressing room after the match and suggested it got a bit heated.

"If you don't want to run about as much as the other team you will struggle against anyone" is not really open to misinterpretation.

You mean like the Raj comments you were right about the other week which were totally taken out of context?

He’s not saying they were doing that on purpose though is he? Barrow for whatever reason on the day were better, had more energy and movement. We were flat and shit. It’s good to read what Mr Derwent said though I suppose as it would be even more disappointing if they weren’t having a pop at each other in the dressing room after such poor display, it’s a bit late then all the same!

Your ability to set new records for obtuseness never ceases to amaze. Raj did give the impression in his programme notes the other week that he was disappointed with the Trust; the clarification that he put out in his Statement was very decent of him, but he had to admit that what he said in his chairman's column was "open to misinterpretation" (to put it mildly).

And yes, I think Hignett is saying - very, very clearly, for all but the hard of understanding - that he was disappointed by the lack of effort that the team put into the Barrow game. Fuck all to do with how good Barrow were - Pools' lack of effort let them look good.

I'll leave the last word to you - otherwise this turns into another pointless 3 pager like your Kennedy rant.

That was obviously so pointless it was an issue the chairman thought he had to clarify, plus my original interpretation of his quotes was correct as was feeling that the absolutely terrible article would cause trouble for the trust from the usual suspects. I think Mail actually editing aspects of the article so others must of thought the same as me.

You could be right he might have been suggesting the players purposely weren’t trying but managers comments I always think anyway sometimes would be a better a couple of days after the game once they have cooled down as he was obviously seriously pissed off with the display, but it’s your interpretation of those comments he doesn’t directly say it and he does mention Barrow and the fact they were better than us. Sorry again if that’s too pointless or obtuse for you.

Time to take the camels for a walk.

Just defending myself to be fair I don’t think the thing about Kennedy and the Mail was pointless or wrong, certainly nowhere near as pointless as this shite we are currently falling out over

Anyway I agree with Gary Lineker he was the golden boot in the World Cup and shit his pants on the pitch four years later so his comments have extra gravitas.

"Far end of a fart" springs to mind.