What are they up to? ie who is funding them?

One of them, Soubry, is my MP. If she stands here again she has no chance of winning her seat back.

My journo mate reckons a general election is imminent, so I don't understand why they've done this with the prospect of losing their seats.

The people from both Party’s should stand for re-election. They stood on the original manifesto pledge, so time to see if the public actually is behind them.

I'd like to think because in all good conscience, they cannot remain part of their political parties as it had such a conflict with their personal beliefs. I think there is room for another political party considering the crap currently on offer under various banners.

New Party? We had this with the SDP in 1981. 50% poll ratings they got and we all know how it ended.
They know that, because under the first past the post system they’re wasting their time.
I suspect as Brexit leaving date approaches they’ve broke ranks and are making a last ditch Kamikaze attempt to pull the hand brake on.
They’re making a big deal of reaching out to the country, so all stand for re-election and let’s see if the country reaches out to them. I suspect they won’t.

Sadly it isn't a political party as that would trigger by-elections, and as mentioned before they'll probably lose if they were put up against thier previous parties. People don't vote for the MP, just what the party stands for or what they always have. It does leave the government with a majority of 8 though, so if only 5 of the MPs (DUP and conservative) vote against, it's stuffed. But it is an uneasy question of, if it's not a party, why is it getting donations and the MPs acting together?

I don't think there will be another election, mainly as the timing for it before now has been better and it hasn't happened. The leadership contest and the no confidence vote didn't trigger an election so i'm not sure what would. No Conservative MP thinking of switching would be stupid enough to do so with such a slim majority, as then yes an election would be likely. So i think we've seen the last of the Conservative switchers. I think there a re a few more Labour to come though...

Lib Dems have to be the biggest pissed off group as they are centre politics, what this new group is, and yet they are now up against their own.

The popular theory is that with both the main parties lurching to the far left or the far right, the time is ripe for the emergence of a centrist party which will appeal to the majority of the electorate who have no wish for idealistic extremism, of any persuasion.
If a flood of MPs join this new idea and they stand on a sort brexit ticket, the belief is that they will get a landslide.
Interesting theory and it is extremely plausible, simply because the unifying factor will appeal to a lot of people who are fed up to the back teeth of all the shenanigans going on at present.
Let's face it, we are all fed up with all this bickering.
If someone like Hilary Benn chucks his hat in, they would have a ready made leader, who has a lot of appeal.
My MP Caroline Flint and the guy next door, John Mann will be interested, of that I'm sure.
As for the Liberals, they could be persuaded to prop up a Centrist coalition if it were necessary.
Far fetched ????? Maybe but there again, maybe not.
Interesting times ahead.

A snap election would rumble all the 'Independent' defectors as First Past The Post is brutal - but has also prevented UKIP from winning any seats.

Can't see it happening though - the Tories won't go though another General Election with May as their leader. We're screwed and there's no end in sight.

I can't fault your optimism Mr Imp, but when you look at the track records of those involved, they are pretty much all self-serving career politicians.

That's fair logic, but to play devil's advocate...if they we're going to be deselected anyway for someone more left leaning when the next election comes, then why not go down in a blaze of glory and self publicity doing as much damage as you can in the meantime.

Speaking for myself, I would welcome a new approach. I have never missed voting in a General Election since I was first eligible to vote in 1966, aged 21. I am now 74 and can safely say I am not in tune with any of the major parties, at this time. I have always voted Labour but will not vote for this present regime. If I was currently a Labour MP, I would almost certainly defect to this new group. That being the case I would vote for this new anti extremist group, for the same reason. I do think this left v right crap has run it's course.
Caroline Flint, my present MP, is brilliant and if she put up as an Independent, or in a new party I would vote for her, as would many in these parts. I think that would also apply to the neighbouring MP for Bassetlaw, John Mann.
I can't see the Tories being too keen to call an election but if they did I think people would get a shock. These defections are not overnight decisions, they have been the subject of discussions for quite some time. Ever since Corbyn got elected in fact. Don't be surprised if there are a few more. These "pioneers" are just a toe in the water and if a snap election isn't called, they have over two years to mobilise into a force to be reckoned with.
We'll see.

Age 74? well that's you sorted then regardless. BENN? FLINT? MANN ? absolute sycophants, might be ok as constituency MP's but all 3 are morally bankrupt , that's obviously the attraction to many

You are deluded, every one of the MPs that have left both parties will lose their seats.

This new party don't even stand for anything how is anyone bar old closet tories like you going to be enthused by a centrist party against tax cuts for the rich, against renationalisation of public services and pro austerity. what share of the youth vote are they picking up?

You couldn't even name a policy of Corbyns you disliked last time you starting spouting this I've voted labour all my life but im a closet tory nonsense.

[quote="unruly poolie"]

You are deluded, every one of the MPs that have left both parties will lose their seats.

This new party don't even stand for anything how is anyone bar old closet tories like you going to be enthused by a centrist party against tax cuts for the rich, against renationalisation of public services and pro austerity. what share of the youth vote are they picking up?

for me they come over as traitors to their party and hope for power and their own agendas to come to the fore. they were voted in by their electors due to them being a member of a certain party. should stand for re election in a by-election as quickly as possible to give them some form of credit.

Has corbyn got any policies, apart from making the Labour party unelectable??? There's one policy that I named I didn't like.
You seem well versed in this new party (that hasn't even been formed yet, according to you) that you say doesn't stand for anything but you then go on to list numerous things that they are for and against.
Typical delusionist bullshit from a typical stalinist who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

As for a share of the youth vote, there hasn't been an election yet in which their share of the youth vote can be counted. Or haven't you been able to grasp that yet.

As a footnote. As always I will do what I think is best for me, my family and my Country and I can unequivocally assure you that voting for any right or left extremism is not on the table.

To be fair Mr Snow the SDP were flying and eating into both of the major party's electorate. You had Foot and the likes of Hatton on one side and the Baroness on the other and both had popularity ratings lower than a snakes belly. Then along came the Falklands War, Maggie flew and it all but killed off the SDP. Had it not have been for Galtieri then who knows what would have become.

Sorry

That's rich coming from a supporter of CORBYN, ABBOTT and McDONNELL.
A Corbyn supporter spouting morals. What morals has a man who supports terrorism and racism got.

Remember the old adage, politics and religion are taboo as it causes CHEW, be like John, John hates chew!

Caroline Flint is a remainer but as her constituents voted to leave, she represents their wishes. Personally she is for the EU.
My concern is how she performs as an MP and I am quite happy with that.
She is not happy with Corbyn as leader and that is a fact. Whether that would make her leave the party is questionable but I personally think it is a possibility but we'll see.
I agree with the rest of your post. If this new group becomes an official party I think that their manifesto would include dropping brexit and that would command a lot of votes, especially if the other parties still persist in pretending they are fulfilling the result of the referendum.

Comes from a man I once sat in front of at Cheltenham who spent the whole games slagging off Pools greatest ever centre forward before he took on 4 players and slammed it in the bottom corner for a one nil win.

After that had happened I'd of thought it was best not to air your views in public but yet you persist.

Can you quote the match and the centre forward's name, as I don't slag players off, either home or away and Pools greatest centre forward, in my eyes anyway, used to go to Cheltenham to watch horse racing and, to my knowledge, has never played there. I think you're mistaking me for somebody else.
As for airing my views. That has absolutely sod all to do with you and I would suggest if you don't like my views then don't read them. Like most other stalinists you encourage the stifling of free speech if it is remotely criticising your communist viewpoint. In fact if stalinists like you got their way there would be no free speech in this country, the press would be government owned and voting for anything or anybody other than communist members would not be permitted. Which is why your brand of politics has been rejected all over the world and it will be rejected here.
I'll make you a promise. Get your Momentum and hard left colleagues to return the Labour party to an electable state and I'll consider returning. So will thousands of others. It's not us who are closet tories it's people like you and others of the hard left who are keeping the tories in power but you are all too thick to see that. We have the worst tory government in living memory and yet we still can't oust them.
Doesn't that make you wonder.........just a little bit.

PS
I've had a look at our performances at Cheltenham and I can't find a Pools 1-0 win. I was there when we were beaten 1-0 in our relegation season to this league a couple of years ago. I can remember us winning there 2-1 in around 2001 and I think that is our only win there and I didn't go to that game.
So we haven't won 1-0 there, so there has never been any centre forward scoring in a 1-0 win, never mind one who I slagged off all game before he eventually scored for a 1-0 win.
You really need to get your facts right before YOU slag people off.

Calm down lads!

Mr Unruly, I've known Mr Derwent for a long time and I don't think he's the type to slag players off as you described.

The game you might be thinking is when we drew 1-1, Porter scored a beauty after getting the ball on the halfway line.

Don't remember Adam Boyd scoring like that?

Cheers John.
I've just looked up that match and Porter scored in the 53rd minute, which doesn't represent the whole game. Any way, who used to slag Mr Porter off. Do you know anybody? He was a favourite of mine and just about everybody else. I wish he was still with us and who wouldn't.
If I remember right Richie Barker was centre forward at that time. I'm also not sure I attended that match. I certainly can't remember Joel beating four men and scoring a beauty, which I surely would if I had been there.
On top of all that where's the connection??? If I called Joel every name from a pig to a dog (which I wouldn't) what's that got to do with my voting intentions or my dislike of the hard left.
There's far too many associations and assumptions on here and if people want to direct them against me, that's fine but the same people must expect the same in return.
If you don't like it don't dish it out.
I've voted Labour in every election since 1966, which is more than most on here if not everybody. That doesn't entitle anybody to call me a closet tory or a Liberal for that matter, simply because I have withdrawn my support from the party whilst corbyn et al are hi jacking it. Calling people names or making things up will only alienate them even more. it's time for people to make up their minds. There's one thing for sure I'll never ever be a hard lefty. I love my country too much for that.

Just as a matter of interest, I have checked and both of our Doncaster MPs, Ed Milliband and Caroline Flint have stated that they have no intentions of leaving the Labour party.
Is that good news or bad news for the current regime???

If a new centre party gained momentum and won say 100 seats it would condemn the country to coallition governments which we can do without imho.

I agree Phil but I'm hearing all sorts of conspiracy theories. Things like moderates saying that Momentum are encouraging de selection of people who are not 100% behind corbyn. If these moderates are de selected it will cause more furore for corbyn than if they resigned. Bloody complicated isn't it.
Another one is there is no need to rush the job as they don't need to. Whilst ever the two main parties keep up their infighting the feasibility of what they are doing increases.
I think there is a lot of clever scheming going on here.
One of the unknowns being discussed is where the media will put their support.
Personally I think it is fascinating and happening before our very eyes.
Fact is often stranger than fiction.
Where do we put our money????
The Establishment is hard at work, that's for sure.
Exciting innit or not ???????????

Totally agree, but their downfall would have been feet on the ground. It’s all about logistics, the structure to put the initial favourable publicity into practical use. They got the great reception but with a first past the post system were always going to have a problem.
I do remember them being formed though and they were very popular. I was on an exercise at the time and one of the comm’s lads was referring to S.D.P. I was plotting a chart for the next day and was really pissed off as I thought he was referring to the plot and me thinking I’d cocked up big time. Bastard.

I don’t get the ‘morally bankrupt’ line of reasoning. Because someone sees their party differently does indicate moral bankruptcy.
The sad ones are the sheep who parrot the Party line regardless. I’d rather have a good constituency MP than a party Stepford Wife/ Dales.

All they’re doing is rushing round the studios banging the drum and getting maximum publicity. They’re political fireworks, they shoot off brightly, make lot’s of noise then next day they’re burnt out and damp.
The thing that unites these two groups is Brexit, they’re desperate for a second vote and the clocks ticking as they’re all under pressure from their constituency party’s and face deselection, so it’s their last chance, their last throw of the dice.
More desperate straw clutching than sun lit uplands I’m afraid.

the thing is many just vote for a certain party no matter who are standing in an election with places like hartlepool and barnsley being good examples. when these defectors do put up to be re elected they will have to face this as well as any people on the leave side would tactically vote against them.

The problem with nearly all constitutions is they are not born out of consensus. Even the protocol for drawing up a constitution is not born out of consensus. And once the constitution has taken hold it's bloody difficult to change it, short of a revolution led by bona-fide consensus seekers.

Or to put it another way, the government chooses the rules that the government has to abide by. There are means of achieving a reasonable consensus, but they are totally not in the interests of those who hold the reins.

What these entitled careerist politicians forget is that when it comes to campaigning you need people. Labour did better last time round because they had lots of new motivated members campaigning and then knocking on doors to get the vote out. With no national organisation this lot will burn out exactly how Snowy predicts.

In the meantime, they're causing lots of bother for their old parties which might be fun to watch but who knows what impact it might have on the wider world?

The thing that I'm constantly baffled by is how Labour came to be labelled anti-semitic when the Tory party has full-on racist loons of all types at all levels. I appreciate that Zionist has become a bit of a dubious term to use nowadays but I can't see how criticising someone for defending Israel's actions towards the Palestinians is in any way anti-semitic. Some of the Israeli state's critics are clearly anti-semitic but there are lots of others, including plenty of left-leaning Jewish people in Israel, who aren't at all.

I think Brexit is playing a major part as well, Snowy.
They are all staunch remainers and if they were to produce a manifesto today, it might go as far as promising to scrap the idea altogether. I wouldn't be surprised.
That could lead to more defections from the main parties as more remainers see it as their last chance.
Sarah Wollaston ( one of the tory defectors) alluded to this this morning and went as far as to say she expected more defections within the next two weeks if Theresa May continued with her stance of refusing to rule out a no deal and no backing for the so called "people's vote".
I cast my mind back to 2017 when May called a snap general election. I have never full understood her reasoning but now it becomes clearer.
After Cameron resigned and she became PM she set about negotiating brexit but at every turn she came up against the ERG led by Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al who made it quite plain that they wanted brexit without compromise. After a year of frustration from within her own party she clutched at the straw of a general election, thinking that if she strengthened her majority, that would go towards shackling the hardliners. Her gamble failed and boy have they made her pay for daring to stand up to them. Ms Soubry ( another tory defector) made great play of the fact that the tory hard right was in control of the party, aided and abetted by the DUP.
Meanwhile the labour party have dithered and dallied to a point where nobody knows whether they back brexit or not, whether they back a people's vote or not or indeed are actually serious contenders to lead the country to who knows where and, like the tories , are lurching further to the extremes.
The so called centrists have seized upon this and could be creating an unstoppable wave of momentum (of another kind) which could eventually lead to control.
If this doesn't happen, it will at least shake the established parties out of the extreme journey they both seem to be on, which is causing them to be further and further out of touch with ordinary folk.
I will say it again. I do not know who to vote for anymore, because of the relentless lurch to left or right extremism. Us versus them causes conflict and conflict causes division and division causes chaos.
Unless the two main parties get their heads out of the sand, get their acts together and stop all this bickering and in fighting, which ordinary voters are sick to the back teeth of, this new party will sneak up on the rails and eclipse both of them.
People say we only got the referendum result because people were fed up of mainstream politics being so out of touch with what was happening to vast areas of the country, that they voted leave as a protest.
How true that is I don't know but what I do know is history will repeat itself and it could and probably will.
I said after the referendum that regardless of how people voted we all needed to work together to get the best possible outcome for the country. That hasn't happened and we are paying the price for division.
If these centrists can somehow unite the country and alienate the extreme factions in both mainstream parties then we will have another chance for us all to work together.
Let's take that chance this time.

When it comes to knocking on doors, no one does it better than those on the left.

As for this new party, they are nearly all, pro Israel, pro EU pro war and pro austerity, whats not to hate?. In the main this is about in the short term propping up neo-liberalism and de-railing Corbyn.

People shouldn't be ashamed to be anti Israel, its a horrible country that persecutes Palestinians and props up the US. As usual this is all about those with moneyed interests. The Labour defectors are all part of the pro Israel group. True Socialists should be on the side of the oppressed not the oppressors

Vote Lib Dem then. We have always had a wishy washy party in between what you call the extreme right and left. Though I think it bizarre when you called Corbyn extreme left, when all he wants is what we took for granted in the 60s and 70s under Labour governments. Some of the things that have made your retirement very comfortable.

As well as the 60s and 70s...there are also those of us who have the results of the last Labour government to thank for all the crap we have now in our 30s. Country in debt, poor economic management, soaring house prices, independent bank of England that can let bankers do what they like, PFI hospitals that never get back into the black, unachievable targets in NHS, university tuition fees, more targets on teachers, the introduction of academies. I'm not saying that the Tories are excellent and done nothing wrong but you can't just look at it from one side and say the Tories or anyone else should never be voted for just because we always vote Labour

They’re political opportunists. They’ll be history in weeks. Unless.... a sizeable rump follow them out of the door.
I think you should look at things with less dogma and ask questions as to why this is really happening. Stock Dave Spart retorts don’t answer the problem.

Exactly. That's why I believe Socialism is the answer, as New Labour weren't Socialists, that's why they got rid of Clause 4 and booted out the likes of Galloway. The tories and New Labour were two peas in the same pod, just like the Republicans and Democrats in the US, both are no good for you, but one would shaft you in the morning, the other in the afternoon.

Despite the shortcomings of New Labour, I didn't hear anyone complaining at the time as they spent like there was no tomorrow. I said at the time around 2006, this cant go on, people earning 300 quid a week and living 500 a week lifestyles , and so it proved , however the tories have used that debt to impose their Victorian ideology upon us with devastating effect. A lot of that Labour debt was incurred building up infrastructure , which is no bad thing, it just cant be done without taxing the rich, individuals or corporations, which they didn't.

I'm not dogmatic, just someone who cares and knows what they believe in and what they want, not blowing in the wind like many. I don't need to ask questions, as I already know the answers. Dave Spart retorts may not answer the problem but they help blow out of the water the stupid assertions made by those who out of either fear, ignorance , greed or all three, those who prop up Capitalism with views lifted from the Sun or Daily Mail.

I don't want to vote lib dem thank you very much. I actually want to vote labour, like I've always done. My voting record of supporting labour is better than yours. However you and people like you have taken over my party and made them unelectable. Whereas I'll fight for your democratic right to vote for who you think fit, I don't have to agree with your choice. You, on the other hand, can't help but criticise my choice simply because it doesn't match yours. You have called me a closet tory, a neo liberal, a liberal and now you are telling me to vote lib dem. You need to grasp and understand how democracy works and you need to grasp and understand that because of democracy, especially in this country, people have the right to vote as they see fit, without being hounded for it. The answer to your problem lies in your left wing beliefs in which your kind suppress and bully others who don't share your views. It has happened all over the world and you would have it happen here. I mentioned three prominent members of the labour party who are MPS earlier on and you called them sychophants and morally bankrupt. These are hard working members of the party you claim you support and yet your usual scathing venom is released up them. Does it never cross your mind that your momentum like attitude alienates people, is divisive and is the main reason why people quote the present labour party as unelectable. I can't associate myself with that sort of attitude. We, as socialists, cannot change a thing unless we get into power. People like you are stopping us from doing that. People like you are ensuring tory continuity, far right continuity, austerity continuity and the suppression of the poor, weak and needy. We need to drag power away from these people but it is a step by step process. The steps you are taking are further to the left, to match the tory surge to the right. Two wrongs don't make a right. The hard left and the hard right will never agree and that only encourages conflict, as it has done all over the planet. We need to get to the middle ground where we can have consensus and fairness not one extreme or the other where fairness is only offered to whichever's own kind.

You have absolutely no idea what sort of retirement I have or how I organised it and yet, as usual, in your desire to denigrate my opinion, you comment on something you know absolutely nothing about and isn't a matter for this discussion. You can't help it and the main reason for that is your arguments never stand up on their own merit, they have to be embellished by intentional, unwarranted and totally stupid comments. Anyone who questions Corbyn is immediately further right of attilla the hun. Eight former labour mps have just left the party, citing him as unfit to lead. When was the last time that happened ? What is your reaction, yes you start criticising and categorising as per usual. Well you better sharpen up your vitreole a bit more because those eight won't be the last, until the party reacts with something better than vitreole as the deputy leader has demanded. I really don't know where you and your kind are planning to take us but leave me out, thank you very much. Surely there must be a corner of the globe where you can go and live your communist dream, without foisting it on the rest of us. Take Rees-Mogg, Corbyn and Johnson with you. Now there's a likely domino school if ever there was one. You can play right v left to your heart's content, while the rest of us sleep in contentment.

I just think the Lib Dems would be the ideal party for someone with your sit on the fence views on life thats all. Apologies if I caused any offence.

You and your kind? that remark just shows what a self righteous nasty piece of work you are. I'm delighted to be part of a Labour Party, that my kind have taken control of and pis*ed you off.

Friends, unless you start editing these quotes to a reasonable length I might be tempted to reduce the post size to zero.

That may be a blessing. Can you install a dogma filter.

Please dont, as much as i wish people would stop using the quote button, im enjoying watching derwent run rings around horden.

I’ll settle the Horden v Derwent ‘derby’ every quickly.
Derwent is a lifelong Labour voter who doesn’t like the way the Party is going.
Horden believes in radical left wing policies and no compromise.
Best ignore each other as this is just a Somme style exchange with no ground surrendered by either side.

You would say that about anyone who was up against me, because you clearly have a problem with me. My dog would run rings around you in a debate. Your posts rarely go beyond a sentence and are always snidey, I bet you're a horrible person in real life. People like you continue to ruin this forum.

Mr Horden.
Can I clear up one thing in your mind that you constantly keep quoting.
You say I am pissed off that you have taken back control of the labour party.
I can assure you that you haven't pissed me off at all.
What you have done is you have pissed off any chance of being elected and therefore ensured continuity of tory rule until you either change or another party emerges to oust them.
You of course can't grasp that concept.
If you stalinists had the guts to form your own party, I would have had more respect but you didn't do that because you knew what the consequences would be.
On the contrary, the eight labour defectors and three tory defectors had the guts to break away from the respective directions their respective parties are heading, even though they will possibly lose their seats.
"you and your kind" is not meant to be insulting, it is merely descriptive but I've changed it to stalinists for your comfort.

There you go again. You just can't help it. You are a perfect example of someone who can dish it out but can't take it. You'll never make commissar behaving like that.......oh wait.

Sorry Monty, I wasn't aware that there were limits. It would be helpful if you published guidelines.
I have never been able to apply accuracy to the word reasonable, so if you wouldn't mind helping.
Ta.

"Was" a lifelong labour supporter, Snowy.
I'd rather not ignore anybody. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and as I'm prepared to voice my opinion, I'm equally prepared to listen to yours.
I genuinely didn't know about any restrictions on post length etc, so if you want to ignore any of my posts cos they're too long, I won't be offended and I'll still love ya.