She doesn't as if she will resign.

It doesn't look like a vote of no confidence in the government will carry.

It was clear she was going to be the fall guy for Brexit when she became PM, but I'm starting to think only a stake through the heart will stop her making a bigger mess of things.

She's a tough old bird, I'll give her that. Some say its resilience , others arrogant and stubborn , and probably deluded, thinking she can still save the sinking ship, when all she is doing is taking the country further under.

Teresa May is a remainer. Maybe she is far more clever than we think and everything she has done so far has been in the aim of crafting a stay-in situation, and she's taking one for the team.


Nah, don't be silly. I'm giving her too much credit.

Remain or leave, Teresa May and her husband will still have millions in the bank when its all done and dusted.

Same as Corbyn who is also a millionaire having barely done a real days work in his life.

I have no real steadfast political leaning but look at the upbringing and background of all of these people representing us at high level none of them could be described as real people people with an understanding of real life.

At national Level I want to vote Labour right now, as this Tory government is hideous, and did at the last election but the reality is the party is in no better state than the Tories. People might say that Corbyn is true Labour politician and that might have been the case if it was the 1960’s but the World evolves and if he were to become Prime Minister in the real World in 2019 he’s surely going to have to compromise a lot of his beliefs on a daily basis?

Can’t we rip it all up and start again as this system isn’t working anymore?

Not sure if he is a millionaire in the same sense of the word as May and her partner, who has business interests that if it were his wife, she would have to resign her position. At nearly 100k a year and been an MP for 35 years or so, obviously Corbyn won't be short of a bob or two, but he can't help how much he is paid, I would imagine with Corbyns value probably agrees MPs get paid too much, but then so do Bankers etc, who earn a lot more. To say he hasn't done a days work in his life is absurd, he is an MP , a bloody good one, its such an easy job I don't see any queues of people wanting to do it. At least Corbyn has committed his life to putting money in peoples pockets and making their lives better , rather than taking money out of peoples pockets and making their lives worse. Its a no brainer for me, the world has evolved , has as left wing politics, it wouldn't be like the 70s in future, not that I think the 70s was as bad as people make out, people must stop reading the Sun and the Daily Mail, they really should. This country has fallen so far behind we need a sensible left leaning Labour government to save it, otherwise your children and grandchildren will go to hell.

A millionaire is a millionaire!

My comment about not doing a ‘real’ days work in life is not to suggest that being an MP isn’t an important job just that like the rest whatever his values he’s still a career polictian who came from a privileged background and has no real first hand experience of working and living in the real world. We can’t relate to these people.

Agree on The Sun and Daily Mail comments entirely but I think think in perverse way those two gutter rags have helped Corbyn gain popularity especially amongst young people. I still don’t see him as leadership material I think he’s served his purpose now though and Labour need someone who can realistically win an election.

I suppose so, a millionaire isn't really a big deal these days, I'm sure we know a few ourselves, unknowingly more than likely. I don't know about relating to these people , I think I can, the problem lies in that many of them cant relate to us, for the reasons you suggested. There are both good and bad millionaires , even tories and poor people of course , Corbyn is one of those, I would imagine he spends very little, because he lives the life of a true Socialist. I think you could have a pint and a decent conversation with him in the Jacksons Arms or The Globe , whereas I cant imagine doing that with May , Mogg or Johnson, they certainly live in a bubble.

I think Corbyn is what is required, you are entitled to your opinion, and unfortunately I have to agree, there seems little appetite for the radical policies that are needed to sort this country out and that Corbyn and only Corbyn would implement. Unfortunately in a democracy its what the people want not what is needed and sometimes the people do the wrong thing, that's the problem with democracy, as we have seen with Brexit. I would hope if Labour do get defeated at an election, they would continue along this Socialist path, with a new leader more acceptable to the voters. To guarantee winning an election we could of course lurch back to the right with a Bliar like leader, but a tory lite Labour IMO wouldn't address the serious problems plaguing this the UK , some of the problems I may add that arguably Bliars Labour played a part in creating, at best it may at least halt its rapid decline.

David Lammy's Berxit speech in case anyone missed it. There is hope....

Mr Speaker, I have faced many challenges in the two decades I have sat in this house.

But Sunday 7th August 2011, the morning after the Tottenham riots, was by far the greatest.

Walking on broken glass, past burnt-out cars, homes and businesses, comforting men and women still in their pyjamas, I saw the place I had lived my whole life turned to ashes.

Many members of the community were urging me to say that the killing of Mark Duggan by police, which had sparked the riots, justified this rage.

That the families made homeless, the burnt out buses and houses, and the looted shops were worth it.

They told me that I had to say this wrong was right.

Mr Speaker, it was not easy. But I had to look my community in the face, and tell them this violence was a disgrace and condemn it unequivocally.

Why? Because we have a duty to tell our constituents the truth. Even when they passionately disagree.

We owe to them not only our “industry” but also our “judgement.”

We are trusted representatives, not unthinking delegates.

So why do many in this House continue to support Brexit, when they know it will wreck jobs, the NHS and our standing in the world?

--

This is the fundamental dishonesty at the heart of the Brexit debate.

Most MPs now recognise it in private, but do not say it in public.

Brexit is a con.

A trick. A swindle. A fraud.

A deception that will hurt most those people it promised to help.

A dangerous fantasy which will make every problem it claims to solve worse.

A campaign won on false promises and lies.

Vote Leave and Leave.EU both broke the law.

Russian interference is beyond reasonable doubt.

And by now every single campaign promise made in 2016 has come unstuck.

Brexit will not enrich our NHS - it will impoverish it.

A trade deal with Donald Trump will see US corporations privatise and dismantle the NHS one bed at a time.

And even those promises on immigration – which has so greatly enriched our country – are a lie.

After Brexit immigration will go up, not down.

When we enter negotiations with countries like India and China, they will ask for three things.

Visas. Visas. And more visas.

And they will get them because we will be weak.

Then there’s the myth about restoring parliamentary sovereignty.

The last two years have shown what a joke that is.

The Prime Minister has hoarded power like a deluded 21st century Henry the Eighth.

Impact assessments have been hidden. Votes resisted and blocked. Simple opponents of a government policy bullied and threatened to get into line.

Even when we forced this meaningful vote, the Prime Minister cancelled it, certain we would reject her disastrous deal.

And oh we will reject it.

Because this is a Lose-Lose compromise, which offers no certainty for our future.

All it guarantees is more years of negotiation – headed by the same clowns who guided us into this farce in the first place.

--

Mr Speaker, we are suffering from a crisis of leadership in our hour of need.

This country’s greatest moments came when we showed courage, not when we appeased.

The courage of Wilberforce to emancipate the slaves, against the anger of the British ruling class.

The courage of Winston Churchill to declare war on Hitler, against the appeasers in his cabinet and the country.

The courage of Atlee and Bevan to nationalise the health service -- against the doctors who protested it was not right.

Today we must be bold, because the challenges we face are just as extreme.

We must not be afraid to tell the truth to those who do not agree.

--

Friends on this side of the house tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns.

The former miners, the factory workers, those who feel they have been left behind.

I say we must not patronise them with cowardice. Let’s tell them the truth.

“You were sold a lie.

Parts of the media used your fears to sell papers and boost viewing figures.

Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson exploited the same prejudice to win votes.

Shame on them.

Immigrants have not taken your jobs. Our schools and colleges failed to give you skills.

Hospitals are not crumbling because of health tourists, but because a decade of austerity ground them down to the bone.

You cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build -- not because Mohammed down the road who moved in.

And wealth was hoarded in London - when it should have been shared across the country.

Blame us, blame Westminster. Do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes.

And do not be angry at us for telling you the truth.

Be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie.

--

As Martin Luther King said long ago “There comes a time when silence is betrayal.”

So just as I speak plainly to the government this time around, let me also speak to the opposition about some home truths.

There is no left-wing justification for Brexit.

Ditching workers’ rights, social protections, and ending environmental cooperation is not progressive.

This is a project about neoliberal deregulation.

It is Thatcherism on steroids, pushed by her modern day disciples.

Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism, it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US.

Socialism confined to one country will not work.

Whether you like it or not, the world we live in is global.

We can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border-lines.

The party of Keir Hardie has always been International.

We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them on the biggest issue of our lives.

If we remain in the EU, we can reform it from the top table.

Share the load of mass migration, address excesses of the bureaucracy, and fix the inequalities between creditor and debtors.

We can recharge the economy.

We can re-fuel the NHS.

We can build the houses we need, after years of hurt.

Hope is what we need.

Remain in the EU.

Give Britain a second opportunity to decide.

Wow.

Where is Guy Fawkes when you need him?

LATEST NEWS FROM WESTMINSTER -
202 for the deal, 432 against the deal....Diane Abbot is said to be disappointed at the draw

Lammy's speech was brilliant. He has a brilliant mind.
If he was leader of the Labour Party they would become immediately electable.
Considering the state of the Tories, we could be looking at a landslide but the big question is....would the current controllers of the party allow him anywhere near the leadership?????
I could not and will not vote for Corbyn. The only thing he has ever done politically is make the Labour party unelectable. He is the Tories best friend.
Currently the only chance Corbyn has of getting to number 10 is the country being fed up with the Tories, whereas the Labour Party under the likes of Lammy would storm in. Voting Corbyn et al into power would be akin to jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
The above is just the humble opinion of a lifelong Labour supporter.

She doesn't look much like Rasputin, can't dance like Boney M and as yet there's no evidence she's exerting a malign influence on any of the female Royals, so I'd say the jury is still out.

She’s the Black Knight off Monty Pythons Holy Grail.

I have watched the debate today and what has come across loud and clear is that Jeremy Corbyn has totally united the Tory party.
The man is a total liability to the Labour Party.

Your apparent dislike of one man Corbyn , is quite frankly embarrassiing , for someone who purports to be a lifelong Labour supporter

Jesus Horden, you have to admit Labour will never get in with him at the helm, bloody liabliity, him and that loopy bird Diane, need an upcoming younger man to pick them up, that dark skinned lad from darn sarf spoke really well the other day!

It might be embarassing to you, Mr Horden but not for me. Rather than being embarassed I am extremely annoyed that he and his Momentum extremists have hi jacked the party I have supported all my life, and voted for in every General Election since 1966, and made them unelectable. He is the reason we have a Tory Government and today he united the Tory party, something which May couldn't do.
Marxism has been overwhelmingly rejected across the World and he is a confirmed Marxist. It doesn't work, mate and I have no time for it.
As for disliking him, I neither like or dislike the man as a person simply because I don't know him personally but I do know his record and that is what I don't like.
You can support him if you wish and that is your right.
I never will and that is my right. Try and respect that.

I do respect that, you will also respect why I don't like the neo-liberals you clearly support like Bliar and co , who hijacked my party in 1995. You're just pissed off that we have reclaimed it back. Marxism hasn't been rejected across the world it has been suppressed or when it manages to slip through the net, despite all the attempts to make sure it doesn't, you get your military coup, which I'm sure you would get in this country if a the likes of Corbyn was elected. Marxism as you call it, could work, if it was allowed to and people weren't so fookin greedy.


If you still think Jeremy Corbyn is a ‘danger’ to Britain, a ‘traitor’, or just a total clown, it could be too late for you – you’ve been brainwashed by a handful of foreign billionaires.
That’s what I wrote more than two years ago in an article about the continual smearing of Jeremy Corbyn in the press. It turns out things haven’t got better; it’s worse than we imagined.
At the time, the article pointed out that whilst newspapers play a crucial role in British democracy, it is troubling that the majority (around 80 per cent) of the UK press is owned by a handful of (predominantly foreign) right-wing billionaires.

Last week The London Economic revealed an even more sinister picture, with revelations that around £2 million public money was funnelled to a charity in Scotland which posted disparaging stories against Jeremy Corbyn and other Labour figures.
It should be extremely disturbing to everyone that a ruling Government is using Public funds and official resources for party political purposes. This is the sort of thing we’re told happens in rogue states and banana republics, not here in Great Blighty.
In addition to this, The London Economic today reported news that one of Britain’s leading barristers has claimed he has evidence of BBC bias against Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn. Jolyon Maugham QC, director of the Good Law Project alleges that the BBC has indulged in showing “coded negative imagery” of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn since his election in 2015.
Make up your own mind
The Conservative Party is in chaos. Whilst the ruling party’s mismanagement and in-fighting is creating one constitutional crisis after another, poverty is increasing, services are failing, and debt is rising. But with such a weak and incompetent Government in power, why are there those still those supporting it?
Here’s why…
They’ve already told you what to think on a multitude of issues. You think you made up your own mind, and you think you’re right. But, you didn’t, and you aren’t.
How do I know this? Because blind policy based voting results (whereby voters tick the policies they agree with, without knowing which party they were voting for overall) are always radically different to the actual vote result when it comes to general elections and other major political votes.
Had all votes in previous elections been cast on policy pledges alone, studies suggest the Green Party and Liberal Democrats would have both had a turn at power by now.
What this means is that people generally have a different perspective when presented with policy pledges, yet vote in a completely different direction. Why? Because these chaps’ media outlets are bombarding your brain with high level right-wing propaganda:
Lord Rothermere, a billionaire living in France, owns the Mail, Mail on Sunday, and the Metro.
Rupert Murdoch, a billionaire US citizen, owns the Sun, Sun on Sunday and is the man behind Fox News, BSkyB, News Corp, etc, etc.
Alexander and Evgeny (son) Lebedev, an Ex KGB Russian Billionaire, owns The Independent, Independent on Sunday, The Evening Standard.
Richard Desmond, a billionaire, did own the Daily Star, Sunday Star, Daily Express, Sunday Express. Now owned by Reach (previously known as Trinity Mirror).
David and Frederick Barclay, billionaire brothers living on a private island near Saark, own the Telegraph, The Spectator, and the Business.
The Sun, for example, claim to have backed the winner of each general election since the notorious Sun headline, ‘It’s The Sun Wot Won It’ referring to the 1992 John Major Tory victory.
The tabloid had led an increasingly personal campaign against the then Labour leader Neil Kinnock, culminating in the famous election day headline: “If Kinnock wins today will the last person to leave Britain please turn out the lights.”
The same campaign is running against Jeremy Corbyn right here, right now.
Is Corbyn the man of integrity we hear about from his constituents, or the national traitor that we hear about in the press?
Think Corbyn is an unelectable loser? Apart from what you’ve read in your daily newspaper, how much do you really know about him?
Corbyn is a phenomenally hard working MP who passionately fights to protect the poor and vulnerable, seeks to protect the NHS, wants to nationalise natural monopolies and take back publicly financed utilities that were sold off to investors at a pittance, aims to stem the flow of capital from the poor to the rich, and campaigns tirelessly to seek diplomacy over war.
However, what is perhaps most threatening of all to the overseas billionaires is that Corbyn wants to stop corporate tax breaks, close down overseas tax avoidance, and stamp out wage inequality. This makes him hugely unpopular with the wealthy elite.
OK, maybe you do know a bit about Corbyn, but still dismiss his credentials out of hand. Sadly, it may be too late for you. The handful of right-wing media moguls running the bulk of the UK press have planted a seed, the roots of which have now grown deep within your subconscious, telling you that Corbyn is ‘dangerous for Britain’, just like Kinnock was.
Of course Corbyn isn’t perfect, I for one have my own reservations (his impotence over the EU referendum has deeply disappointed), but all I ask is that you look past the newspaper and media smear – some of which has been funded using taxpayer’s money. Our national newspapers are full of stories ridiculing Corbyn, smearing him, or even worse, not featuring him at all.
Socialism is a bad word… but the UK invented it (NHS, public services, National Insurance, etc)
Why does Corbyn get such bad press? Because he represents the biggest threat to the right wing ideology and stability of the super rich – the same people who own our national media.
One of the best tricks of the press is convincing people that a Corbyn Government would result in Britain becoming some sort of Communist State (like failing Venezuela), which of course is utter rubbish.
A little less neo-capitalism (i.e. clamp down on those extorting us) and a little more socialism (i.e. sort out the NHS and our public transport), is all that most people ask. Yet, the national press has brainwashed the public that ‘socialism is bad’.
In case you didn’t know, we don’t need to be one way or the other – we can find the right balance – which we certainly don’t have at the moment with a Tory Government that is actively closing hospitals and reducing our police force amid a rising population. It doesn’t make sense.
You may not agree with all or any of Corbyn’s policies, but it should trouble you that newspapers exercise power and influence in a number of ways. It is not just that they have a giant megaphone letting them dominate the public debate/thought. They have privileged access to politicians (just check out Rupert Murdoch’s wedding guest list) and have the ability to effectively set the political agenda.
However, none of the newspapers have privileged access to Jeremy Corbyn. Love him or loathe him, he’s the modern equivalent to the un-bribable Chicago cops who took down Al Capone. An untouchable politician. But, what use is a left leaning politician to a right-wing media mogul billionaire if he won’t even get into bed with him?
Think about this…
A perfect example of how the right-wing press paints a dire picture of Corbyn was reflected in news rooms when the Labour leader turned down tickets to the opening game of the Rugby World Cup in 2015. The press slaughtered him. As did a number of high profile MPs.
The press claimed he had ‘snubbed’ the invite to the opening ceremony. Boris Jonhson was quoted saying “This is turning into a national joke…Come on Jezza: Scrum down for England.”
What wasn’t widely reported was that Corbyn had prior commitments, ‘scrumming down’ to meet with his constituents, the people he was elected to represent and serve.
He sat down for a private meeting with one of his homeless constituents to listen to her issues, as well as a full to the brim waiting room of others who had turned up to his weekly constituency meeting.
Whilst other politicians were quaffing down the free hospitality in the premier VIP seats, Corbyn was doing what the public elected him, and pay him to do.
Make up your own mind
The public has been crying out for a politician who isn’t part of the Bullingdon Club or Etonian alumni elite. Someone who stands up for their principles and isn’t a media lap dog. But, it seems those very characteristics could be Corbyn’s undoing unless the public take a closer look and shake off the propaganda shackles.

Brilliant post Horden!!!!

Look Mr Horden I really am not prepared to read your posts on this subject any more, simply because you can't resist stating what you consider motivates my position. Just accept what I say about my views on the matter and stop speculating my thoughts, which you generally get wrong. I stopped reading after the first paragraph or so. You are not satisfied with writing your own views but you have to express what you think are mine. I am my own man and formulate my own opinions without the influences you are making up in order to underline your point of view. The only thing that influences my opinion on Corbyn is his record, as I have said. I have never mentioned Corbyn as a traitor or a clown, you are a downright liar on those accusations and at that point I stopped reading.

Do whatever you want Derwent. I obviously can't change your mind, you are too stubborn for that, but I am not having you accuse Corbyn of things he is not and has not done. You crack on with your dream of one day, getting your sit on the fence/middle of the road/all things to all men party that will change feck all, into power.

I will do as I want with or without your opinion, criticism or advice. I simply do not rate your opinion, although I fully accept you're entitled to it.
Apart from being a Marxist, which Corbyn stated he was on the TV, what else have I accused him of which he hasn't done.
I am not stubborn and I can be persuaded to change my mind. Corbyn has managed to change my mind. If you actually knew me you wouldn't talk such tripe. People who do know me would tell you of my political beliefs. My stance is, once again, I won't vote for Labour while Corbyn is in charge. On change I will say I will only vote for Labour when he steps down and is not replaced by another Marxist. If you must quote me or comment on my position and views then stick to that statement. Anything else you describe me as is pure speculation on your part.
On my dreams which you also seem to consider you're qualified to comment on, once again you are wrong. My political dream is the World is rid of Marxism as quick as possible.
It really is becoming clear that you can't get anything right.
I suggest you stick to your other fantasies of being an expert on football. I can handle that notion cos it makes me laugh.

After last nights failed vote of confidence, the Labour Party will start putting the screws on Corbyn for a second vote. Corbyn doesn’t want a second vote because that to me would mean compromising his real beliefs about the EU.
The trouble is, Blair’s minions still hold the majority of seats and let’s not forget their horror when he was elected and their multiple efforts to depose him, they did not want him as leader.
Tony Blair still stalks the corridors of power in the Commons and his political ‘offspring’ still guard his legacy.
ALL Party’s have their dark backgrounds, be the motivator be money or power. Let’s not kid ourselves.
I’m just thankful I’ve never had loyalty to any Party and never could. The whole of Parliament is starting to look like a rest home for unemployable failed middle class graduates/ gobshites out of touch with the real world.

I reckon Corbyn knew fine well that they would lose the vote. By going ahead he has done what he said he would - tried all the possible routes to get an election. Now he can go on to the other options, such as trying for a second referendum, without being accused of being inconsistent or giving in to the Blairites. He also can't be accused of bottling the no confidence vote because he called it.

There isn't any wing of the Tories that would want to see Corbyn in power, none of the Conservative leadership hopefuls wants the poisoned chalice of power just now, and everyone knew May was going to lose the vote on her deal so Labour must have sounded the DUP out. The idea that he might have thought they'd win the no confidence makes no sense at all, it just needed getting out of the way so moving to a new position doesn't make Corbyn look weak.

I totally agree. There are people in the Labour Party who would rather see the tories win the next election , if it meant the end of Corbyn and the resurgence of what the Labour Party is meant to stand for, that of helping working people and standing up to the enemy of those people , the rich elite. Sadly it seems there are even some Labour supporters who would rather see the tories have another term in power as well , biding their time, watching the country go further down the tubes, until another Bliar rises from the ashes.

Agree. You don't need to be a maths expert to realise that as long as the DUP backed the gov up, May would escape, that's what the DUP were meant to do, back the gov up, the worry being, what have the gov got to do for them in return. This is just the start, there could be many more votes of no confidence to follow. Once we see what the outcome of Brexit really is, then the DUP may jump ship, then it would be a different story. Personally I do not want a second vote, and anyway I think there could be a good chance the result would be the same, but increasingly I'm beginning to think, that it could be the only way of sorting this mess out. God knows what would happen if a second vote returned the same result, and the same chaos and playing for time ensued again,probably a civil war.

Corbyn may well have been a marxist in the past but the labour party are not "marxist". I was a Leeds supporter in my distant past but got over it.
Horden stated "A little less neo-capitalism (i.e. clamp down on those extorting us) and a little more socialism (i.e. sort out the NHS and our public transport), is all that most people ask." and if people read the policies of the labour partly (not how the press interpret them) you will see thats about what they are proposing to deliver.
Corbyn asks straight questions and never gets straight answers and seems to bust a gut to answer a straight question honestly but he is always walking on egg shells just in case he uses a phrase that the press will seize on to rubbish the other 95% of what he has said. (he is a politician ffs)
May in contrast sidesteps better than JPR Williams and to see the contrast between them watch Prime Ministers Questions (in it entirety).........its a joke.

Very true Bluestreak. Corbyn when interviewed is probably as you say, always on the defensive, worried about the press picking up on something that can be blown out of all proportion. On Marr on Sunday he was asked the same question he was 2 years ago " do you back leave or remain " . He would be committing hari - kiri if he answered it honestly, all he can say is we will honour the vote, that to me is shrewd , although personally as far as votes go I think he would be better off getting the leave voters onside, and maybe secretly he believes the same thing, but with a party In the main on the remain side, both MPs and members , again that would be unwise, at this stage at least. When a vote is 52/48 there are no easy options , someone is going to be upset.

Lads can someone answer this question.

When you negotiate with a union you know as a last resort if negotiations fail they can instruct the work force to walk out knowing full well the damage that this action will cause,so on that basis you do everything to avoid this outcome to suit both parties.

So now you have Corbyn saying remove no deal if he was a union man negotiating on your behalf would you allow him to do so or if he becomes PM should he pass a law against the trade unions removing the option of a walk out ?

Comparison really doesn't work Mr Poolie.

When a union walks out it is always with the aim of walking back in reasonably soon and hopefully with a better deal than they had before. Any damage to the members is planned to be temporary and recoverable through the better deal.

If the UK walks out it will be with the intention of never walking back in so any damage would be permanent. If there was a change of mind the deal on offer to re-join the EU would be worse than the current one, for example Britain is the only EU country to keep its own currency and that would never be offered again.

So, in short, no of course he wouldn't and pretending the two things are linked to make him look bad is silly.

Snowy makes a good point when he says he is not a blind follower of any party. I'm beginning to think that is where I have failed.
All my life I have lived in Labour controlled areas, namely Hartlepool and Doncaster. I struggle to see what successive governments have done for either Town and yet I have voted for Labour, unfailingly since 1966.
The one to which most people on here will relate is obviously Hartlepool. The Town has had a Labour MP and Council for the vast majority of my life and most on here. Talking to people and reading social media I very rarely hear a good word said about any of them but the people continue their blind faith and put them into power. Ian wright was virtually public enemy number one.
Mr Horden was right when he suggested I had been brainwashed but he got the source wrong. It is with socialism that I have been brainwashed but not the socialism of Corbyn. In the first instance I was influenced by Ted Leadbitter in the sixties. Mainly because he was the only politician who mixed with the people, spoke to the people, listened to the problems of the people etc etc. No other party bothered. I was a teenager. No other politician has been able to sway me away from the Labour party until Corbyn was elected leader.
However a new chapter has dawned. From now on whoever gets my vote is going to have to earn it.
Snowy is now my hero.....................apologies in advance Snowy.

No deal is like the nuclear deterrent, you have it, but never want use it. It’s a legitimate tool in my opinion. It’s like a game of poker.

Glad I never play cards with you. If you're going to use nuclear deterrents you can have my money, I only bet a fiver maximum so even a hard punch would make me fold.

I was brought up in a house where my mother was a staunch Tory and my Dad to the left of Marx( not Groucho).They argued like hell about politics and I was a spectator to it all. Oddly enough, over the years their views converged and in some cases crossed over, but it taught me to realise that one was right sometimes and the other was right sometimes. I learnt to balance views subconsciously.
The one major thing I did learn was, that anyone who votes for the same party continuously is a wasted vote, because that vote is already banked, you will change nothing. However, I’ve voted for nearly every Party just about. I am the floating voter, it’s people like me decide who gets elected in the marginal constituencies. Simple as that. I have no fixed prejudices, my mind not used as a waste paper basket for long family political voting traditions, just common sense to guide me and an interest in politics.
I hold my nose and mark the ballot paper.

I'm sure you're right Snowy, he would much prefer an election. He isn't getting one though and the membership are keen on another vote and he is a genuine believer in party democracy. That means he was left with the question of moving from one position to another, maybe second vote or possibly something else, without looking spineless. Losing the no confidence vote gave him options, not calling for it would have left him stuck.

The worst part is the cleaning up afterwards

Here's another comparison.
If a union leader and his/her members continuously requested consultation on a major issue concerning the future of the company, and then got the agreement to consult, would you expect that union leader to start demanding conditions before they even sat down, under the threat of not attending????

Thanks for your very sensible and balanced reply.
You and Mr Corbyn, in very different ways, have changed my perspective.
The only downside is I'll probably have to discuss and probe a bit more before my X is awarded to the most feasible or lying so and so.
You can't win.

Nicely put Snowy - and let's not forget (as most of the Westminster dimwits have) that the other player in this game of poker is the group of 29 who want to see us fail - and equally don't want a no deal brexit - so the threat is is ,more aimed at them than Corbyn, Abbott and his numerous luvvies.

Which is why the no deal scenario has to be kept on the table. If everybody is allegedly against it then get yer heads together and get a deal but as we all know there are people going to meetings with the PM, not to sort a deal out but to wreck the possibility of us getting one, under any circumstances.

But who put them in the cake in the first place?

Depends how far you want to go back where you will eventually arrive at a Cockerel shagging a Hen.

Who was the brave soul who, many years ago, saw a chicken straining and dropping an oval ball and thought....I think I’ll boil that and have it for my tea.

With soldiers of course.

And now for something completely different, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng

Or this especially from 2 minutes onwards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE

Why have we never had an up to date "Yes Prime-minister"......fiction or truth?