https://www.thornegazette.co.uk/sport/f ... -1-9522274

Are we a angry negative club?

I think we're a pissed off bunch of supporters who just want to see us win at home more. Especially against bottom clubs. Also Money you say, show some empathy. Sorry to say Money, why don't Players show some EMPATHY. Fans travel hundred of miles to home and away games. Then that's the attitude and performance they put in. We know you're trying to change things. You have to appreciate that Pools fans have been watching crap for past 10 years or so now. Nothing seems to be changing. Rant Over.

Doesn’t your post prove he has a point?

He’s been here five minutes and is seeing things with a fresh pair of eyes. Some people will just not give any manager a chance, they always know better whatever the manager says is wrong. This mentality needs to change or we might as well jack it all in.

This is what he's talking about probably

Yes my post does prove his point!
Still what did he expected when he took the job. He was going to get an easy ride. All fans get behind him? Keep changing squad. I know he wants to assess everyone before he makes changes. Still before you apply for a new job, don't you do your homework and research. He should have known what we needed.
Everyone knows we're a angry negative club. As a manager you don't come out after getting beat by shit like Maidstone at home. That's his point and should keep it when it matters.

I'll bet you want him to be able to predict the future too?

I have never liked the way our fans are so quick to boo, or the way they get on some young players backs as soon as they make a mistake. It creates an atmosphere of negativity which must influence the players. But.... I listened to Money on BBC Tees when I was driving home after the game and he seemed to be suggesting that a lot of blame for the team's performance and the fans' expectations are a result of the supporters being "antagonistic" and the media putting out fake news about him. He had a very strange attitude in that interview. It is way to early to be calling for his head or anything as stupid as that, but this interview did worry me a little...

If the players did it on purpose I'd agree... but they don't, so I don't. Get behind the team.

Untill money can change the balance of the team we are pretty much stuck in the manner of our current situation which i might add has had nothing to do with money.
Take kitching and look at our lhs no out ball to a winger and we expect kitching to be a cross between renaldo and shergar.

You can't expect a manager to waltz in to a club in terminal decline, instantly know the ins and out of the squad and fix it immediately.

He's been here a month, has barely been able to get on the training pitch due to the number of games we've had.

The squad is poor and unbalanced. He needs time to put it right.

He does need time but theres been very little new manager impact from him that virtually every other club gets. Dover a prime example, bottom of the league not so long back. His experimenting has pretty much thrown two games away against gateshead and maidstone.

I'd rather a long term improvement more than a quick fix, surely you would too?

I agree there's an angry, negative mentality around the place at the moment but I'm not sure why he finds this surprising.


I appreciate he has to choose his words carefully infront of new employers when he's been here barely 5 minutes but, as Horden said on another thread, we've had, what, 7 or 8 miserable seasons on the bounce now including 2 relegations and a flirtation with going out of business. What did he expect?

I'm happy to give him time as I have been with all the other managers and appreciate that turning the fortunes of the club around is not something that can be done immediately. I just find him saying it's surprising a little odd.

Yes I would have a long term fix, than quick fix. My point is...

GET off the high horse, stop blaming fans for been angry and Negative. We spend a lot of money on watching, travel and accommodation.
I am behind him. I wish him the best of luck along with Pools owner.

They a time and place to say things. Not a month into the job.
Why doesn't he say.

"I understand the fans are angry and Negative. We are working on it behind the scenes. Please stick together and stand with us. All I ask for is the fans do they bit and we'll do our best. Please be patient, Rome wasn't built in a day."

Or is this passing the book the norm now.

Well said - and he could add, "despite what some others might say, I actually think that some fans actually do know a bit - not a lot, but sufficient to deserve respect".

Money isn’t blaming the fans. He is saying that an undercurrent of negativity running through the club, which is true, and that we all we need to pull together to turn it around, which is right.

What is the problem with that?

Money knows home form has been dreadful for years We had the perfect opportuntiy to win two on the bounce at home, start winning over the fans. What does he do experiment. We all want long term improvement but when you have just played as well as you have all year at home, then decide to experiment again your asking for trouble especially when you want to win the fans over and pretend your aiming for the play offs. We have a game against telford this week or against darlo in two weeks were surely experimenting is the time if any?

Money knows home form has been dreadful for years We had the perfect opportuntiy to win two on the bounce at home, start winning over the fans. What does he do experiment. We all want long term improvement but when you have just played as well as you have all year at home, then decide to experiment again your asking for trouble especially when you want to win the fans over and pretend your aiming for the play offs. We have a game against telford this week or against darlo in two weeks were surely experimenting is the time if any?

A fair point, however making 2 changes in the midst of the Christmas period is hardly experimenting.

What he is saying is pretty true and straight forward really, is it understandable based on the last 8-10 years at Pools - yes of course, does screaming criticism and abuse at your own players during a game help - no of course not and only people without a brain think it does, is this going to be fixed quickly - no as only a longer turn upswing in home results will change the atmosphere. Basically there is nothing to see here in his comments

However I also agree that he hasn't helped his cause with the team selection for the Maidstone game at all. A change at centre half, centre midfield and centre forward following a very encouraging team performance where people seemed to be gelling quite well and complimenting each other was very bizarre. He has seemed determined to do things his way, put in players he has brought in or back to the club and prove his point about Magnay as a defensive midfield player. Net effect is that is a pretty huge change right down the spine of the team right after a good display and some good football. I agree it is bonkers to call for his head but it's also ok to constructively question selections like this which seem quite baffling

Well it looked like an experimental team to me against a team he probobly thought he could get away with it against. We have played two of the bottom 5 and picked up 1 point. He certainly needs to be careful or we could get dragged towards bottom 4.

It's hard not to be negative or angry as a set of supporters when your team has averaged 18th in the league over and 11 year period. We are not used to managers coming in and having a lasting positive impact and it's natural to be sceptical under these circumstances. I'm not saying it's helpful but it is almost inevitable.

If the fans are the biggest problem with the club, then getting them onside straight away should be one of your priorities surely? Whether he is right or wrong and I know he's just trying to be honest, these kind of comments make his job harder from the start.

If he had picked the side against gateshead and played exactly the same way and same sort of fight he wouldnt of needed to make any comments about negativity he would be shutting the fans up with results.

As Pools manager it’s obviously dangerous saying anything as someone will manage to take it out of context.

Seriously who has suggested the fans are the biggest problem?

Why say anything. is he having ago at the board? Own players or himself

Money having a go at somebody...... Question is who?

Or is it the Mail making up a story to piss us all off?

What makes you think he's having a go?

Well in the story he saying fans are complaining about James on the wing. Then says have some empathy for the players. Staying the obvious to fans to get behind them. Maybe reading into it to much.

You're right he doesn't say it's the biggest problem. But at the same time I'm struggling to understand what he is trying to achieve by saying the club is "angry and negative".

Or maybe not reading it properly? He asked for empathy for himself because he's been lumped with a team with no wingers. He's effectively forced to play James out wide and is then called worse than shit for it.

The balance in our team is shocking.

1 left back
5 centre mids, 4 of which are almost exactly the same type of player.
0 wingers
0 players with genuine pace

He has a lot of sorting out to do, most of which will have to wait until the Summer.

He’s saying at as he sees it, why pussyfoot around things need to change?

Do you think he’s wrong?

I dont have a problem about Moneys so called mini rant.
He will bin the out of contract shite in the summer and hopefully replace them with better players who can play to a system he will implement next season.

If Solihull can challenge for promotion after being shit last season then there's no reason why we can't give it a good go.
My take is if next season doesn't go to plan ( going for promotion the CEs podcast words) then the moaning will be justified.

As Fans we know this. So why say anything in the first place. That's what I can't understand. State the obvious to fans who know what going and gone on.

He's very cleverly directed the negativity away from the players...

It's what good managers do.

So he's not allowed to say things we know?

Initially , until they can't do it anymore. Only results keep people in jobs in football.

Okay deflect blame from players but at least be man enough to take the blame yourself if it was your fault. He went from winning to getting boo off in 5 days but then says to fans that isn't a backwards step. He changed the defence, the midfield and attack who else is there to blame but Mr Money ? People would have more respect for him if he just admitted he got it wrong even Bates had us near the top for a few months this guy is making things even worse should have just give the job to Hignett and saved a wage.

Unbelievable.

Who are these people

You mean Hignett who was being hounded out of Town with pitch forks for making a couple of wrong subsitutions the other week?

Hignett didn't want the job though Face Paint Army, which I find strange, in fact I find the whole Hignett thing strange

This board is developing into a fecking Bulgarian soap opera with more sub plots and gormless conclusions than the day me mam revealed the truth about Uncle Billy.

What's wrong with Bulgarian soap operas like? Loved Hotel Balgariya

So PJ you saying Saturday wasn't a backwards step from Tuesday. I wasn't at the game and I don't think you were as well but getting no points and playing badly has to be going backwards from winning and playing well. If Moneyman is going to make stupid comments it is only going to wind people up like when he said we were the better team at Gateshead and deserved to win. I was at that game and we clearly were not the better team, for 80 minutes we were awful and everyone there knew that so why does he say it ? The squad is not as bad as he is claiming because they were top 6 for 3 months and we should not be losing to part time teams at the bottom of the league.

"If Moneyman is going to make stupid comments it is only going to wind people up"

Do people really get so wound up by what a man says about a game?

Fucking hell.

Money’s thoughts were well put and true. All sorts of reasons why it’s a negative atmosphere but it is... unless you’ve got pickled onions for eyes.

Can't argue with a word of what he's said. I actually hope he doesn't walk.

I honestly couldn't believe the shit I heard being dished out to the players from around me in the Town End. I felt properly pissed off and embarrassed. I felt like going on the pitch and just letting the players know that we're not all fucking muppets.

There is literally zero patience.

How the fuck do you think it makes a player you are meant to be supporting feel when he hears 'that was fucking shit' (at 100 decibels) when he miskicks a clearance? What do you honestly expect his reaction to be? Will he be motivated by that? I am fairly sure he's aware he's just made a mistake. How about, oo, errm, just keeping your fucking gob shut? Away days are so much better. We're loud and in the main supportive. I am not surprised that we're struggling at home. The atmosphere is awful.

I aren't saying sing your hearts out, although that would be good, do what you want, just don't go total bellend when you go to games.

These are the players, rightly or wrongly, who are representing OUR club. We want the club to succeed so get behind the fucking players respresenting our club because it doesn't take a genius to work out that getting behind them (or keeping your toxic bullshit to yourself and/or your other toxic mates) has to be better than getting on their backs during games.

And another thing, what message does it give to the owner? You trying to tell me he's completely detached from the bad feeling? What would you do? Keep putting money in? How long before you start thinking 'you know what, fuck this shit'?

I aren't saying blindly follow, just think about your fucking actions.

Shilts - great post.

You hit the nail on the head there. Totally agree.

Maybe the fans could try something different to change the atmosphere? The paper clapper things Leicester use could increase noise levels, which can only help. Noise is good, if only to drown out idiots who find their voice at matches. Provided it's not fecking vuvuzelas it could be worth a shot?

This board is currently as divided over this issue as Parliament and indeed the country is over Brexit. However Richard Money and several contributors are living in cuckoo land if they seriously believe that the knockers are going to suddenly clam up when faced with repeated individual and overall team performances as poor as those witnessed in the dire display against Maidstone.

The only way of improving the alleged ‘toxic’ atmosphere at the Vic is for Money to find a way of making the side much more effective against sides who arrive at the Vic fired up, treating the game as a cup final and setting up to secure at least a point (witness the Maidstone keeper time-wasting in the opening ten minutes with the score at 1-1) with the likelihood of taking home all three points as Pools run out of ideas and stamina - and the fans inevitably get on the players/managers back.

It’s no coincidence that the home form has been particularly abysmal for years as regardless of which regime has been in charge of affairs, as with one or two exceptions e.g. Nathan Thomas, the club has been far too content to sign up journeymen - half-decent footballers not short of application or commitment but definitely lacking in flair, pace and above all, goalscoring prowess.

The owners have been too readily prepared to build up ridiculously huge squads of such players at either L2 or NFL level, steadfastly refusing to break the wage structure rather than pay a little more to secure the services of a individuals who are readily capable of ‘dropping a defender’ in Money’s terminology and/or regularly taking half-chances to stick the ball in the net.

Whether this is partly due to the lack of income as a direct result of low season ticket prices is open to conjecture. I fully appreciate that it is very difficult to attract such players to the unattractive area of the UK that is Teesside/South Durham in particular and the North East in general but until this philosophy is changed we will continue to flounder in mid-table with little hope of ever escaping from this dreadful league.

I’ve mentioned previously that we should look at local part-time professionals if this is what it takes to acquire a couple of flair players or those with a nose for a goal or two - let’s face it we have repeatedly seen that visiting part time outfits hardly struggle for fitness against the current Pools side so that cannot be used as an argument against snapping up part-timers.

Good post Joe. What a mess. Saturdays defeat feels like it was 5 home defeats in one rather than just the one. It seems to have tipped many over the edge and the toxic atmosphere has returned amongst our divided fanbase. Saturdays seemingly meaningless cup tie v Telford takes on an extra significance now, the trophy that could save this season, lose on Saturday and I fear the shit will really hit the fan. Money looks like he isn't going to have a honeymoon period that most new managers come to expect.

If you look at things rationally and analyse the data, if anything HUFC are heading downwards rather than back towards the Football League, over the last 8 years, a few seasons avoiding the drop in lge 1 , before eventually getting relegated, the same thing then happened in lge 2, and now we are beginning to see the same thing happening in the NL. Can we fall even further? will our place in the natural order be that of a yo yo team between NLN and the NL?. If Money can't sort things out, it will start to look that way.