I had a call from the in laws the other day telling me I'd been caught speeding while we were back home in the summer, excellent, I was sort of expecting it as I saw the moment it happened but a while had passed and I thought I'd dodged it but I suppose it took a bit longer to get to me because I was in a hire car. I was coming into Knaresborough just off 60 limit down to a 30 and a Police Bike was at the bottom of a hill tucked right into a corner with a hand held speed camera. I was doing 36 mph in a 30, to do 30 where he was you'd have had to brake reasonable hard coming down the bank (much like the local Police favourite coming from Elwick tucked into the entrance to High Tunstall School). I reckon just about everyone who passed him at that time in the position he was in would have been in excess of 30 mph, and many wouldn't have even seen him, it was ambush nothing to do with road safety purely to catch people out.

That was after my Dad got a ticket from the night he picked us up at Manchester Airport on the M62. It was the night England played Croatia in the World Cup Semi Final, this was during the first half so you can imagine the road was empty. We must have passed single figures in terms of other cars. They for reasons unknown had a variable speed limit set at 60mph, no roadworks, no accident, no traffic, probably the quietest that section of road has ever been. But a variable speed limit. My Dad got flashed doing 70 (the actual speed limit which is outdated in itself but that's another issue) on the empty M62. He has been driving for nearly 50 years without a point on his licence or being involved in a real accident, he is a safe driver. Yet he the other day attended a 'Speed Awareness' course in Sunderland for doing the speed limit on a deserted motorway!! Comical really.

I have now just been reading about a section of the M1 in Derbyshire that is now a fully 'smart' Motorway. Meaning if you exceed 70 mph at any time you will get a speeding ticket. This is apparently to catch out dangerous drivers and to reduce accidents. On a totally separate issue it was the most profitable section of road in the UK last year.

One of my real concerns in life, especially living in the Middle East were the standard of driving has to be seen to be believed, is dangerous drivers. Bellends on an ego trip who think they are in rally who have no concern for the safety of others need to be dealt with but it's surely got to a stage were Police forces can't deny anymore this is no more than a money making racquet designed to claw back budgets? Yet again working people are penalised for going about there daily business, I feel massively sorry for anyone in the UK who drives for a living or who's job involves a lot of driving. This speed tax must have been become a real nightmare as getting caught a few times and you are out of work. It must be a constant concern.

A proper rant that but it's getting fairly ridiculous .

For once I agree with you!

If people stuck to the limits then no body would be fined or have to worry.

Everybody who has ever driven a car has at some point exceeded the speed limit so it’s not really that simple is as I suspect you know.

Is speeding always dangerous? Dangerous driving can involve driving too slowly for example or driven within the limit with out due care and attention.

What about variable speed limits how can the example I gave about my Dad be justified? 70 mph on motorways as cars have developed and improved in terms of safety is completely out dated never mind 60 for no plausible reason other than to catch people out.

Anyone else noticed an increase in magpies recently on roads? Surely there isnt a plethora of insects and stuff to eat on the tarmac compared to the grass etc?

With all the cleaver tech on the market now you would think all cars would have a system in it linked to satellites etc that would warn the driver.
Unfortunately my car is 11 year old and lacks such kit.

Just Greggs pasties thrown out of car windows.

Have to agree PJ. I'm no fan of daft driving but the use of cameras and 'smart' technology seems to be aimed at revenue generation not safety. Over here Macron dropped the speed limit on roads with no dividing barrier to 80kmh claiming it would reduce deaths caused by dangerous overtaking. Result is more speeding tickets all round and even more ridiculous overtaking because the knobs who do it are more enraged than ever when they're stuck behind an ancient 205 doing 78.

I've got speed limiters and speed limit detection on my car but it is all out of date now thanks to the twat Macron.

Only noticed more dead badgers on the roads recently, magpie levels remain normal.

You can get sat nav apps for your phone that do that but that’s hardly safe either is it? Waze that I use here has it.

Has anyone actually proven a link between increased road safety and speed traps?

I use Road signs. Usually a circle with red outline and the speed limit in the middle. Smaller repeater signs will also occur along the route.

hth.

Its just another tax , just like parking charges, in a country that is rapidly going down the tubes.

Oh is that what they are..............

Wouldn't dare speed me.

Don't think anyone disagrees with speed laws In principle, its just a lot of people in this case are victims of entrapment. I have been done twice, not for speeding , but driving in a bus lane , never paid either, though one of them, I was re-imbursed a year later, as another driver challenged it in court and won, meaning thousands got refunds, which is a case in point, in a lot of cases its just plain wrong, I was forced into a bus lane because of heavy traffic flow in a town I didn't know well. Are people not allowed to make a mistake anymore? what happened to common sense? its all a money making racket.

I once enquired as to how speeding fines were collected from foreign drivers. The answer given was that they were not collected as it would cost too much to trace them!

If indeed speeding fines were to for safety reasons, the cost would be incidental. Speeding fines are without doubt, a form of taxation.

Absolutely loads of evidence to show that speed kills, and the positive implications of enforcing limits (and other examples of bad driving). In order to have fixed or mobile cameras in any location, the police or LA have to follow a formula that is quite difficult to satisfy. Before installation, there has to be a 'test' of the speeds generated there. The average speed, and top speeds, at the chosen location have to be way above the limit, and there also needs to be a certain level of KSIs (Killed and Serious Injuries) for that road. The thresholds for each of the three metrics are very high. So no, camera locations are not just picked out of the air or used to generate 'revenue' (anyway, the police no longer receive these fines and haven't done so for years); this is just a typical misinformed tabloid type moan, with no basis in fact. Also, the growth of community speed awareness projects are due to these thresholds; the local community have asked for cameras, the tests have been done, and the metrics don't support a camera, so the police suggest a community project.

The numbers killed and seriously injured on our roads each year are truly shocking, and part of the reason for this, I think, is that there is an entitled culture amongst motorists who think the law doesn't apply to them, or that they're good enough drivers that they don't need to worry about infringing the law. Ask any driver, and they'll tell you that they're 'better than average' (something that's not statistically possible). Driving is one of the most dangerous things we all do, yet we never really face up to that fact.

And it may be worse where you are PJ, but it's not a race to the bottom.

Clamped


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got a speeding fine in Sunderland. Going 35 in a 30.

Done the speed awareness course and it does make you think about your speed as you realise every mph really counts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tea and biscuits?

I do think pj makes some valid points. The places that camera cars park in Hartlepool are hardly accident black spots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah. At Marty’s school

Mind numbingly boring for most of the times but it does make you aware of stopping speeds n stuff like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What is the formula/justification for these mobile cameras and hand held cameras to appear at various locations without warning?

Apologies i have just seen you say it applies to mobile cameras.
It wasnt that long ago i saw a van where Little India used to be in Seaton Lane.
Never heard of accidents there? Straight Road only a few houses on one side?

I have no issue with fixed speed cameras or even mobile cameras in built up areas I am aware of the issues and extra risk an extra few miles an hour can cause. I am not someone who would ever intentionally break the speed limit in a built up area or drive in a dangerous aggressive manner. I haven’t been wronged I was speeding and will take whatever punishment I am given. I wasn’t intending to speed though I was slowing down from 60 to 30 on an unfamiliar road, I think the biker copper was in a good place to get people as I don’t think everyone else was driving slower than me. My Dads was totally ridiculous though.

I think the location of some mobile units and things like variable speed limits on motorways (like the actual example I have given, why was an empty motorway set at 60mph for a pretty big section was someone concentrating more on the match and pressed the wrong button!?) are a completely separate issue and have little or not as much as they should to do with safety.

Also even though any death on the road is shocking the UK’s roads are pretty much the Worlds safest and after driving here for a year when I was back on them they felt incredibly safe!

Travelled down to Portsmouth on the May Day Bank Holoday. Left here at 5.00am and on a glorious sunlit day on a deserted motorway from joining the M1 it was 60mph all the way down, which seemed odd, but as there's gantry cameras all the way gown you're stuck at sixty because someone hasn't programmed it for the bank Holiday.
There was plenty flying past us, but the car was set to 60 on the limiter for the M1 as you never know what's going to change from gantry to gantry..
So, I just don't chance it anymore. More patrols and less automation may be a better option.

I can see your point with the managed motorways example. They're usually used to enforce a lower speed limit to reduce congestion, and there's lots of evidence they work. In your dad's example, one of two things could be to blame. There may have been reports of an incident or debris in the road, in which case the reduced limit is justified. Or they may have simply been malfunctioning, which happens a lot. That's a shit reason to get a ticket, but they're still enforceable if the limit was clearly indicated.

The police would definitely prefer this, as they can then focus on all the different driving offences on the roads (and they do a fair bit 'normal' police enforcement, through the use of number plate recognition technology). The problem, in a nutshell, is 'austerity'. When looking at where to make cuts, most PCCs and CCs see roads policing as an easy target. There are some forces that currently have a handful of traffic officers, and even those that take it seriously (such as WMP) have seen their number of traffic officers fall by more than half.

A mate of mine got done on the M180 when there was just his car and the police car on that particular stretch, nothing else in sight. He was doing 80mph whic although is over the limit, its hardly dangerous driving.
Speeding isnt the issue, its dangerous driving thats the problem. Speed in the right places is fine especially in modern cars. Speeding or dangerous driving when its busy or built up is what needs targeting.

There's enough loons on the road.Speed kills.Hopefully in this case a International arrest warrant will be issued..

The idea that the police don't benefit from issuing more tickets via cameras isn't true. If you take the fine and the points it goes straight to the treasury and the police get nothing but if you go for a speed awareness course the force organising it keeps the money you pay to do it. Given that most people opt for the courses to avoid points that must generate a fair chunk of revenue.

That's partially true. Most of the courses are offered by private companies; they have to be paid. A slice also goes to other organisations (such as the road safety trust). This leaves a very small percentage that goes to the police, and it's a drop in the ocean, really, especially as there are limitations on when a course can be offered (based on past record and the level of the offence). Most of the officers I've spoken to (can you tell I'm currently researching the enforcement of driving offences?) would rather that courses not be offered - they don't believe in them - but are forced to due to guidelines.

None of that takes away from my main points; there are restrictive requirements for when a camera can be used and, as a society, we don't seem to be willing to face up to the fact that driving is an inherently risky activity and we need, therefore, to consider our own behaviour. Just look at this thread; lots have said something along the lines of, I understand that speeding is dangerous, but...' Why is it that we think, in this example, that we can push the boundaries of the law because we think it's safe to do so? That's not a rhetorical question; I'd be interested to know what it is about driving that makes people think they don't need to worry about the risks, or that they don't apply to them or in specific circumstances?

I'll take partially true as a result given you know a lot more about this than I do.

In answer to your question: Jesus built my hotrod and nobody with a good car has to justify anything.

So if we all agree speed kills and the slower the vehicle is driven the risks are lowered, theoretically if all speed limits are reduced by a further say 50% then there would hardly be any accidents at all?
We can agree that cars are more advanced reacting quicker (servo brakes, power steering etc. etc.) than they were 50 years ago yet we still have the same speed restrictions

The 70 MPH limit was introduced in 1965.

I think we can all agree that cars have improved in terms of efficiency and safety, motorways themselves have improved in that time and the driving test is far more demanding.

So taking all of those things into consideration if they are going to have variable speed limits why can’t at non peak times that raised to 80?

Because if shit does go wrong the changes of death multiply massively for every 10mph over the limit. Yes avoiding an accident may be improved, however walking away from an accident is less likely. 70mph is more than enough to get you around the country.

To right

I have to pay a speed tax when I get my 11 incher out and start laying and boy can it go

Take the train........you know it makes sense!

Meh. The 70 mph speed limit on motorways made sense in the 1960s when it was introduced - only 'performance' cars could cruise at those sort of speeds. Nowadays when white van man can cruise at 85 (and does) it's a joke.

Anyone trying to stick to 70 on a motorway today knows they will find themselves wedged inside an endless line of 40 tonners with no view of the road ahead, or out in the middle lane creating tailbacks for fun. The police know that a motorway top speed of 80-85 mph is realistic and have condoned it for years. Politicians are hypocrites on the subject - they know fine well that it makes sense but will never say so publicly as long as there's a campaigning tabloid to demand more safety. Speaking of which, in 2016 a report released by the European Transport Safety Council revealed that only Sweden had fewer deaths than the UK's per billion miles travelled in the EU.

That said, I'm all in favour of 20 mph limits in built up areas - pillocks racing around streets endangering kids, other pedestrians and cyclists deserve to be banned not fined.

QED.

You miss an important element in that calculation; the driver. Reaction times for humans haven't changed much in those 50 years, and all there's so much more in the car to distract a driver. It's true that a lot of those developments have reduced the incident of KSIs per mile driven, but it's still the most dangerous activity we (usually) engage in. And all those developments are exactly part of the problem I've identified; the technological developments make us feel safer, so we just ignore the risks (that materialise every day on the roads) thinking that technology will make us safe.

How my father-in-law passed his driver assessment course recently is too me one of this years greatest mysteries..Speed kills PJ.

I have a vision of PJ attempting to mount a camel

Casey Jones was always on time.. Unlike Southern Rail.

If they really wanted to clamp down on speeding the A19 would be deserted most of the time. Its not as though it isn't an accident black spot, especially the bit between Castle Eden and Hart, but no , they would rather concentrate on drivers going 5mph over the limit along Easington Road.

Keeping at least two-seconds between you and the car in front is as big a factor in avoiding an accident as is your speed is in my experience.

Many UK drivers simply drive far too close to each-other - and stand little chance of avoiding a collision, no matter what their speed is when an emergency-stop situation arises.

Keeping two of them chevrons apart - as is required on some limited stretches of Motorway in the UK - is a very good idea, and should stop just as many accidents and deaths as speed enforcement ever will.

It just won't bring in anywhere near as much cash...!

Discussing the number of accidents caused by tail gating rising on the radio this morning. I was astonished when a so called motoring correspondent said the main cause was drivers sticking to the speed limit and frustrating motorists behind them .....seriously?

The 2nd main cause of tailgating (behind impatient agressive pricks) is oblivious people sticking in the middle or outside lane for no reason whatsoever. The best (or worst) example of this is the A1 northbound just past team valley, 3 lanes from there and no one uses the left lane.

I’d say tailgating is a bigger issue than doing 80 on a motorway (when driving readponsibly at a safe distance from other road users), but penalties and bans are rarely imposed for and hardly compared to the revenue stream of speeding fines.

The thing what the thick arseholes don’t realise who do it it is that it’s THE major cause of congestion at busy times, especially the pricks who double it with weaving from lane to lane because they think the other is flowing quicker causing people to break behind. If people are patient keep some distance and let traffic steadily flow at the pace the congestion will allow then it’s a proven fact you get less standstill traffic.

I think a major crackdown plus more education needs to to put on it as it’s a huge caused of accidents and is for me outright dangerous driving. Driving above the speed limit in most scenarios (on motorways anyway) isn’t.

Oddly enough, the people I utterly despise. is where a lane is closed on a dual carriage way and given plenty of warning to get into lane, tear up the empty lane to squeeze in at the front. The only people coming close to them is the idiots who let them in.

I concur with that one but that epitomises the level of arrogance and lack of patience that makes your average dangerous driver.

Here they use things such as hard shoulders, pavements and central reservations to do that normally at high speed driving a killing machine like a Land Cruisers always whilst simultaneously being on the phone.