https://www.hufcsupporterstrust.org.uk/ ... ch-2018/83

Serious shit


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My gut feeling is this is what The Trust would of preferred all along. I have my doubts and based on experience of other clubs that have went to the wall, would rather play the long game than go for a short term fix. 20% stake, but still a minority shareholder, with not much of a say in the grand scheme of things ,and every possibility the club could still be run by amateurs/sharks and carry on leaking money , and be in the same situation in 2 years time.

I'm all for a club run by the supporters, but for me it has to be lock stock and barrel, 100% run by the supporters.

Totally agree. In simple terms how much of whatever we raised will be paid now or over a longer period to Sage for their loans. The price for their shares has always been £1 and how much is needed to pay off all the liabilities we do not want to keep. Ie ex managers players contracts coxhall claims pay offs to Pam, Paul and any other hangers on. A figure to the nearest hundred thousand will do.
Then we will know how much is left to restructure. No sane local business will invest in a pig in a poke.

Otherwise let the Phoenix rise from the ashes

There are a whole host of large businesses available for a pound. You could have had BHS for that before Christmas. No the question is what is the agreement on Debt. Sage haven’t invested a penny. All funds that have gone into Pools have been in the form of loans. The club for nowt is a nothing statement.

How much debt is the consortium planning to take on?
What is the structure of the repayments?
What is the monthly operating costs over the next 12 months?
What is the income projection?

Without those figures it’s impossible to make a judgement.

If the repayments are substantial then this will only postpone administration for a year.

Businesses for a pound ! your mob doing a great job with the economy Mr I

As you say, all we can do is speculate until some figures present themselves, but to me it sounds about as stable as someone in debt, struggling to pay the rent, no food in the cupboard, going to Wonga for a loan to pay off the debts.

Unless Blackledge is going to budge on what he expects back on his loan I feel this is a non-starter, we could potentially be playing in Conference North next season, with a lower income and still stuck with the same debt/players. A multi millionaire or a fresh start are the only viable options

Seems like the answer to the latest request is a no from people on here, and it goes without saying that our “friends” on the other board will also be against it. In this event it sounds very much like it’s all over. Goodbye HUFC it’s been a crazy ride!

No idea on finances, no idea who the main owner of the club will be, no idea what you will get for the money, would be worth you guys reading up York City's current situation.

I would assume the desperation to keep the club at the level you are will make people want this to happen but I wouldn't put anything into this currently.

Fair play for your Trust to make the effort as I guess they feel that it ensures they have made every effort under the current circumstances, puts them in a good position if they need to be the 100% owners at some point.

To move you forward and raise that sort of money then I would guess you all need a lot more details which seem to be hidden behind NDA's.

What’s the crack with #savejeffsclub as well

Dunno but we need more hashtags!

They seem to be saying Sage will walk as long as they get a cut of any sell on payments for Carson, Laurent, Simpson etc and a cut of FL payments if we ever get back there. That is probably the best deal they could have hoped for but completely agree they have no chance at all of raising it as a lot of people would rather see the club die than support the Trust. Also cant see many people backing a consortium with Raj Singh involved after what happened at Darlo. I wish them luck with it but they wont be getting any of my money. I also wont be supporting a Phoenix Club in Northern League 2 or wherever they end up unless its completely fans run so like Geoof says its goodbye from me as well .

Any investment needs transparency. Personally I would have rejected the NDA. It’s been clear since musgrave walked that there was only one serious investor and he will only go forward with the fans on side.

This appeal is dead in the water without being backed up by a lot of numbers.

Probably realise the only way they will get big donations is by aiming it at rich footballers and Sky executives who only know us because of Jeff Stelling. They are not going to get much from the people of the town are they after all that Fuck The Trust carry on ?

No matter what people do it’s just a fuckin huge stinking pile of shit mess.

I’m off to cry over Joel porter videos


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What is even the point in NDA’s at this point, no fucker is interested in buying it and average folk like me certainly won’t be throwing money about in to a consortium effort without knowing any medium or long term plans and how much they will be.

I agree with NDA’s in some aspects such as people’s wages etc btw

Agreed, a total figure would suffice.

Why is this Teesside businessman unnamed? is it because Stelling is worried there may be a backlash if it ends up being the man who condemned Darlo to the Northern League? After all the man has a track record of pulling the plug on a football club in a way not too dissimilar to what Sage are doing. He doesnt take criticism too lightly at all and has form for throwing his toys out the pram if he is criticised. Is he an ideal person to take you forward or is Stelling just desperate to get anyone on board?

Just a quick question re the prize draw of 20% of takings. Doesn't prizes have to be 70%, or am I mistaking this with something else?

All I ask before parting with cash for anything is to be able to make an informed decision.

There is nowhere near enough information available.

I am also afraid to say I don't really like the Trust statement and I am massively behind the Trust. It reads to me as utter panic and headless chicken like pleas whereas, for me, it should be well thought out and reasoned statements - as we have had in the past. For me and to get my immediate backing, I would need the full facts and figures and I am disappointed the Trust hasn't been able to provide this.....I accept there will be things that can't be said but there is no mention of how we would finance ourselves beyond this initial fundraising, what's the point in ensuring we can run for 6mths, a year etc if ultimately we're going to be just as fucked then as we are now.

I do not want to start again and as stated, with the right facts and figures I'd be bang up for throwing in my hard-earned but this is just so disappointing and I am gutted that I don't feel I can contribute.

I was going to post but Shilts has said exactly what I was going to! Nail on the head on every aspect.

On the assumption that most of the people who post on the Bunker are not in a position anyway to help the Trust substantially towards its target of (deep breath) £250,000 - I'm not sure I see the point of all the posturing about 'knowing the full facts' going on on here?

Instead of queuing up to rubbish the initiative, how about keeping a united front and not giving the hacks another easy knocking story?

I wish the Trust the best of luck and hope local businesses and wealthy individuals rally to support its call for donations.

This. You’ve put it much better than I can but I feel the same way. I’ve been massively behind the Trust but somehow this latest statement and plan of action seems off to me. Nobody seems to be questioning Raj Singh and why Darlo didn’t want him back. It feels like even if this is successful we’d still have a Blackledge & Co holding us to ransom (future transfer fees or whatever) and it feels like all it would do is delay the inevitable. I don’t want to start again either, far from it and I don’t doubt the intentions and hard work of anyone but I just feel really deflated now. I understand that there are no other deals on the table but I’m wondering if no deal is better than a bad deal. This has been going on for so long now, it’s like watching a slow decline from a long terminal illness. Do we really want to drag it out for another year or two. Anyway, I generally read everywhere and not comment anywhere as last time I got copied and pasted completely out of context but I just had to say how gutted this latest statement has left me. I think it has finally hit home that this really looks like the end. Completely happy to be proved totally wrong of course as the people involved undoubtedly know more than I do.

Errm...because we are being asked for money to save the club without having any knowledge of a plan going forward.

Rubbish the initiative? Who has said that? It has precisely zero to do with that and as I said, if I had belief in what I was being asked for money to support I would be sticking in what I can afford right now and would continue to do so.

Also, you saying that Bunkerites probably don't have the resources to help the Trust/Jeff achieve this aim (which may be true on an individual basis) flies massively in the face of you saying we need to keep a united front. What you're alluding to is there is no point us doing anything and need to rely on businesses and those with cash to sort it out?! That's just daft in my opinion Mr Dawes and rather defeatist. From little acorns do mighty oaks grow. With the right thing to fight for I am sure Poolies would be all over it.

In no way is this a personal attack but I do think you've badly missed the point with all this Mr Dawes.

If Stelling has asked them to fill the hole in his Consortium they probably felt they had no option but to go along with it or they would take the rap for killing the club. They seem willing to take Stellings word for it that this is the only way to save the club so perhaps it is Stelling who needs to come claen about who is in this Consortium and what exactly Blackledge wants out of it as he seems to be the one doing all the wheeling and dealing. Agree with those who are saying that the statement is too wishy washy and they are probably only going along with it to keep him happy though they have said they will hold a public meeting so I guess they are going to ask for permission to get the NDA lifted.

It sounds like it is utter panic because it is. We are deep in the shit and we have known it for a while, and it is crunch time now and decisions have to be made to try and keep the club as it is now or start raising money for a Phoenix club.

But If they said the money was for a Phoenix club they would have been hammered, so the trust can’t win in that respect.

They need to keep pushing for the terms of the NDA to be relaxed otherwise they won’t get near the target. Then measure the feelings further to see if fans want to pin their hopes on keeping the club in it’s current form or not.

No one is rubbishing anything, just sensibly asking questions about being asked to contribute money to something with little clarity.

Whats the point of a united front if we are all skint as you assume.

What is a local business/wealthy businessman in Hartlepool? the bloke who runs the fruit and veg stall in the indoor market, rents out a couple of houses to druggies? there is no one out there, the couple of people with money are probably no better than the ones who got us into this mess.

I thought it was a bit dodgey that the amount that Jeff said he needed to raise was so similar to the debt owed to Sage. I'm completely pro-trust but so gutted. Sounds like SAGE either don't know how to negotiate in the face of possibly getting nowt or they think we are really really gullible.

Posturing?

We are being asked to invest 250k. Don’t you think the investors deserve to know whether the business is sustainable or not and what our money is going?

If the debt is wiped off and the only money required is to sustain the club going forward, 850k in the first year was mentioned due to players on contract until next year, the 2nd year you can manage your budget based on incomings v outgoings and whether the club will be full or part time based on relegation, also a committed commercial dept driving advertising, sponsorship, business meeting venue, catering, lottery, stadium tours etc
So many unanswered questions we all have, however what you can bank on is the Trust board will not commit funds or sign anything until a full disclosure of consortium agreements have been verified by a legal representative and assurance that trust members will not be liable for any debts.

It is good that so many people have different questions, certainly a challenge when all the answers are not at your fingertips, however we will endeavour to supply all the answers as soon as we can legally.

Both The Mail and Trust now seem to be saying the £1.8 million is for running costs only and they will need nearly a million of that just to get us to the end of the year which sounds about right based on what the club claims to be losing at the moment which is about £120k a month. Also saying only money given to Blacklege will come from player sales which seems to be fair if these are players he brought to the club or who they have sold and done deals on for a cut in any transfer money like Carson and Amond. If the guy has lost £1.8 million he isn't going to walk away with nothing at all. Think it would look better though if Stelling came out and made a statement saying Blackledge wont get a penny of the money fans are being asked to put in as I can see people responding much better to that.

I've invested a bit of money. I've been impressed with The Trust. Impressed with supporters direct. Maybe it won't work out. But I have a feeling that if an amount of money is raised and invested by the trust with this arrangement, this is the way to go right now to try and save the club in it's current guise.

Yes, where would we be without the benevolent knight in shining armour Blackadder. Gawd bless ya Mr B.

I'll be sticking £250 in. I'd rather not see the club die; it's been an important part of my life (though I do try to remember that football is only a game and my interest in Pools is only a hobby). I'll think of the £250 as a donation - it's not an investment. When is football ever an investment, except for the likes of the Glazer family?

There's people on here who are completely convinced that liquidation and a phoenix club is the only way to go; they've expressed clearly enough why they have reservations about the line the Trust is currently taking and I respect that.

As I've said more than once, for me it's a last resort - I categorically would rather the likes of Jeff Stelling explored every avenue to restructure the club as it is now than start again in the Evo-Stik League. I seriously doubt that I have the stomach for watching that week in, week out.

For the last ten years supporters have been subsidising owners that have been disinterested, criminal and incompetent, in that order. Not one of them has actually "invested" any money in the Club. Whether it be IOR's phantom losses or Sage's stupidity in loaning a known con-merchant thousands. We have also subsidised, with a few exceptions, a number of useless Managers/Coaches. The "few exceptions" were given no time or money while the rest were given too much time and, at least, what little resources that hadn't been purlioned. Supporters have also subsidised a large, and largely bone-idle and talentless, playing squad - some of whom seem to have taken root in the very fabric of the Club.
During these ten years we have sold more players, for more money, than, probably, in the previous 100 years of existence, virtually none of which has been ploughed back into the playing squad.
I'm sick to death of it.
If the future, at least foreseeably, is to be some kind of feeder club for Blacklege's bank balance then forgive me for being rather unenthusiastic. And the thought that coxbergblacklegeduxburywatsonjones may get more money out of MY Club doesn't bear thinking about.
This financial mismanagement, theft, shitstorm, call it what you will, has to end now.
If nothing is left so be it.

No sell out, as the Daleks would say LIQUIDATE, LIQUIDATE, LIQUIDATE don't give a single penny to the Leeches

Quite sad to say it but I’d prefer a fresh start.

Same, it sticks in the throat to have to give money to these people in charge

Have the Trust just got an open donations account set up or is there a scheme to pledge an amount with payment triggered if the target is met? If the latter is an option then I’d be interested depending upon the level of financial information that they published with the scheme and knowledge of exactly who the other members of the consortium are.

Good post ! and largely describes how people feel.

Its good that we can have this conversation in a civilised way, some great posts so far, hope the thread doesn't descend into the usual slanging match.

Interesting that some want a phoenix club, and worryingly some would rather see us die rather than things continue as they are.

I think the request for money from supporters is a big ask, £250 initially , then £10 a month for however long, for what exactly? a place on the board, with a voting strength of 20%. How much would change ? what would be the price of Season Tickets? would the club shop improve? would the catering be any better? more importantly, would there be any money spare to improve these things?. It seems there could be so many caveats in any proposed deal, it would be like going into a fight with one arm tied behind your back and your legs tied together, doomed to fail.

I have said from the start The Trust need first a membership of 2000, ideally 3000. It will take time to achieve this, especially given the rift between the fans , but once achieved it will be in a better position to ask for money off its members. I think a membership of 1200 is far too small for this current idea to work.

If the target isnt met, the money goes towards a phoenix club, so either way you have football at the vic next season.

I'd like to know who the consortium is, we are expected to trust jeff that they are good guys, so i guess it depends on if you trust jeff or not?

For me the issue is paying back anything to Sage whether that be today or in ten years. They got into a get rich quick scheme with Coxberg on the Millhouse Masterplan, didn't do any due diligence and predictably came unstuck. They overseen an avoidable relegation and then hung around in the hope that we could bounce straight back and they could recoup their money. No, no, no! Then they made a series of poor business decisions which cost a fortune, that's their problem and we shouldn't underwrite it. The fact that their money is shown as loans doesn't change that. They rolled the dice, funded crooks and lost their shirt.

The club is in a financial mess with stupid contracts handed out by people within the club who have 'connections' to players agency companies. Someone has had an earner there by the way. There are outstanding liabilities with Goldberg's cronies that are legally sound and will likely end up having to be paid. On top of that there are tax bills coming, remember that the last winding up petition was filed on the 1st Feb, that means that there are HMRC invoices due now. Their hopes now are based on the emotional attachment of the fans but most have seen through this.

So what if we have to start again a few leagues down. Does anyone really thing that we're getting back into the league in the next three years or anytime soon? It's a choice of an exciting time of a new club owned fully by the community and fighting our way back up the divisions as Darlo have done or avoiding relegation from the conference. Crucially we have a league standard ground, remember if Darlington still had Feethams they would be in the same league as us now and they've had an infinitely more enjoyable time of it over the past five years.

Finally, don't get too excited over a seat on the board when the rest is owned by a single businessman. Decision making in a private limited company is ultimately determined by shareholding. the guy who owns North of 51% is in charge.

Pay sage a penny / take on their liabilities - no. Start again with a club 100% owned by the town - yes.

I'd love to see full trust ownership too, unfortunately it seems the debt /running costs are just too high for the trust to tackle alone.

P.S. Depends are always canny on here, no banning if someone disagrees.

Just start again for me.
So called new club in 4 years time will probably be higher up the pyramid than struggling along as we are now owing money to previous owners and more fucken relegation battles which are becoming an annual thing now.
Feel sorry for the non playing staff who would lose there jobs but thats all part of life which can be shit at times.
I certainly wasent epecting this shite back in August.

Well said Mr I. Totally agree with the bit about the board, that is what I was trying to say. 20% shareholding is diddly squat in the grand scheme of things, almost like a sleeping partner. The sharks and conmen still rule the roost, but even worse this time, they don't even pay for their con 100%, they have the dopey fans paying 20% of it. Digging your own grave and the council charging you for digging it, no thanks.

Is that a no then, that this option and this level of info isn’t available?

If that’s the case then unfortunately I’m out.

Bet the officials of the Northern League are sweating buckets reading this.

I'm behind the trust provided lessons are learnt from other's mistakes, which I'm sure they will be. Don't let passion rule your head as appears to be the case with Stelling. He's doing what he believes is right but as far as I can see that's through desperation rather than sense and logic.
If money is going towards the current/previous owners I'll have nothing to do with it and will not renew my membership with the trust.

Pools, to my knowledge, have never been profitable. Certainly not to the extent they can afford to give up sell on fees or future revenue as a golden goodbye to current owners.

Very sensible and level headed approach.

I think starting again is the best and more sustainable option. Crowds pay drop a little bit but I think a good portion of fans are happy to turn up to the vic on a saturday to watch some football regardless what is going on in the background.