They don’t know though do they?

Saying something is ‘unlikely’ is not a statement it’s still speculation no matter how unlikely it actually is

Talking about the ins and outs of Phoenix club at this stage is not going to get more people onside with the Trust and what it all needs to be about now which is building membership and becoming stronger. If they went in with your approach we’d just see more finger pointing and vindication from noisy people/idiots who said from day one it’s what the Trust wanted. The Trust just need to be ready for when it does happen that would be a point when we’d see a huge spike in membership, revealing projected costs for a new club isn’t what people want to hear at this stage.

Taking advice from supporters direct is the way to go at this stage for me and sitting on hands is the correct thing to do at this stage. Liquidation would be an absolutely devastating blow and an incredibly emotive thing to happen. Talking about coldly ripping things up and starting again will not engage people and to be honest of the examples he gave of clubs who have been in our situation Chester who went down that road was the least positive outcome for me as they are back in trouble again. Cross that bridge when it comes.

It’s a good point PJ but then again we know whatever th trust will say some sections will always be against it.

To me it’s just how the message is delivered. So make it clear it’s not the preferred choice, however we have researched costs and structures and this is how a Phoenix club would look like and our target fundraising effort would get us off the ground for this.

Still think they are doing a great job though. Saw a comment saying they had done nothing in three years as if it’s just a case of starting up a group and thinking that a month later you can be getting pats on the back as saviours.

Alternatively we can face reality. It would have been presented as a contingency plan not a desired outcome.

Given the choice between starting again or blindly giving any more money to crooks I say roll on Guisborough and Bridlington. (I'm only guessing at potential opponents)

I am facing reality please don’t patronise me, people will not accept this without a fight so in my opinion it’s too soon in proceedings to present it like that. People will not give up on the club, a pheonix club is the very last resort for many people some might not even have the stomach for that altogether but when the push came to shove get on board. Things may and probably will escalate very quickly it’s at that point the contingency plan would come into play and membership in the Trust will spike, going too early could cause problems and jeopardise that. Supporters direct have the most experience in this the guy last night had been doing it for ten years I’m they are advising on caution for this very reason. Everyone has to buy into so why really so alienating people?

I’d also like to put forward the fact the liquidation means lots of people losing jobs, absolutely devastating for them and their families many have worked for Pools for a long time. The Trust can not be seen to be advocating a pheonix club publicly until the worst happens or it will risk losing a lot of public support.

Just my take on the situation.
Liquidation will happen its just a question of when not if.
When that day arrives im sure the vast majority of our fans will get on board and realize the Trust will be a major factor in rebuilding our club from scratch.
As for a phoenex club with a slight name change that dosent bother me one bit.
Ive called us POOLS and to me it will still and always be POOLS.

We got Jeff Stelling on board who im sure will be making a generous donation to the Trust.
And like i said last week hopefully Mr Cosgrove will come back on the scene to invest in the club.
Maybe a consortium and trust run club with decent financial backing can be quickly achieved to get us back to where our brilliant loyal support deserves.
Keep the faith and never give up my fellow Poolies.

If the worst happened, today, tomorrow, the week after... I'm confident they are capable of knowing what to do. They dont have to announce that.

Exactly and they have the advice of an organisation that have experience of every outcome.

True indeed.

One thing that is certain from over the last 2 years, going to the meetings, following things closely online is that no matter what the trust does it cant please everyone.

They mention we have a plan for admin/liquidation and its OH M G THE TRUST WANTS TO FOLD THE CLUB.

You dont mention it and it's OH MY G THE TRUST HAVEN'T GOT A PLAN FOR GOD SAKE DO SOMETHING.

Its only a no-win situation with a small minority of fans with an anti-trust agenda based on ancient personal grudges. There are others who are being won over because the people they abuse are turning out to be right. The new trust members and some of the people commenting during the feed last night are realising that all the worst things that were said about JPNG, Sage and Full Ninety are true.

The trust needs to keep pushing that message. The bad stuff was true, because of the leeches there are only two routes left - white knight or admin/liquidation leading to phoenix club. In the first case all the trust has to do is welcome the millionaire and ask if they can have representation. In the second, they're the only organisation that can set it up so that eventuality has to be openly planned and built for. If a tiny minority don't like that so what?

There's no point in the trust laying all there cards on the table for every possible outcome or nuances of each outcome. No one knows exactly what the situation is or will be so detailing a plan to a wider audience is a bad idea.
They are planning and telling us that that is what they are doing.
Encouraging noises for each and every eventuality.
Well done the trust

It’s not about the tiny minority Mr Toulouse, the ones who have been anti Trust and had personal angendas from day one I am past giving a fuck about. That Ebbsfleet lark the other day was the final straw for me. Embarrassing and patheticx

If was working for Pools, or had a close friend or member of my immediate family doing so I would not be happy about a supporters group discussing the formation of a new club at an open public meeting. It’s not whats required at this stage, the stage were it is required may come very soon until then I don’t seem what would be gained by projected budgets when nobody is certain what it the exact fallout will be. Why risk bad feeling from hundreds of people before it’s even began?

Isn't the point that Mr I is making though that the planning realistically has to start now?

I get the idea that the trust can't just say let's start a phoenix club now. But that's not what's happening. It's simply a case of we should get a plan in place now so we are ready to go when things finally fall through. Then we won't have to deal with the turbulence that will come with that on top of trying to plan a new club. He even says contingency in one of his follow up posts.

If people want to view planning for a phoenix club as saying I WANT a phoenix club that is their prerogative. There already seems to be a broad consensus on the futility of reasoning with people who are always going to view your intentions as bad.

Do you not think planning has started?

He is saying last night should have been a platform to discuss a business plan and costs of a pheonix club, I strongly disagree with that.

We're all singing from the same songsheet.

1. Prepare for liquidation and rebirth
2. Be political about how we present the Trust to those who are not yet on board.

Several people have expressed it very well.

Adults can discuss a contingency plan and set about preparing the foundations.
Children can put their hands over their eyes and pretend its not happening.

It is.

I don't know if planning has started. I'd like to think so but I honestly don't know.

I agree that it could be seen as divisive but I don't know how you get around that given I deem talking about what a phoenix club entails worthy of discussion. I'm surely not the only one?

I dont' see the harm in discussing what running a new club actually entails in terms of costs and planning.

I agree with MJ's comments that there are now effectively two outcomes to this. Either a rich benfactor comes in and keeps the club going or the endgame. The club folds and we have to start again.

We have no control over whether a benefactor comes in. Unless you take the stance that the trust should be doing more to entice such people.

We have full control over looking into what starting a phoenix club would entail and I think an open trust meeting would be a good place to discuss this issue.

I’m fairly certain the Trust have a contingency plan ready to go, hopefully it’s never seen or heard, onbviously the most likely outcome does look the worst right now but the Trust can’t be seen to be giving up on the club. At this point using last night was not a platform to be selling a pheonix club, if that eventuality happens it will not need selling.

PJ's been on great form the last week; I think he's got this spot on.

I think the issue of club employees is valid but we can be honest. Their livelihoods are at risk because the club has been deliberately wrecked as part of a plan for some unscrupulous operators to line their own pockets. A miracle investor might save the situation but that looks very unlikely.

The Trust wants to be in a position to do something positive if an investor doesn't turn up and the worst happens. To do that it has to plan and build funds now. Nobody currently working at the club could possibly see that as being to blame for their situation or the Trust welcoming bad news.

I don't think Mr I was suggesting going into minute detail about how a phoenix club can be run. More that given how starkly the current situation was laid out at the meeting some more open discussion about what to do in the worst case scenario might have been productive in pushing fund raising forwards. I'd say that was fair and reasonable comment.

Didn't catch all of the broadcast but they definitely said they were still in discussions with one potential buyer but had also already have been talking to the MP and the Council to secure rights to play football at The Vic next season if they have to start a Phoenix Club. They also got a highly respected panel to give us a lot more information about what has gone on at the club. Thought they did a good job of keeping all options on the table and making it clear whatever happens their position will be stronger if they have money in the bank which is what the Rangers fan said on Facebook at the weekend, people will only take you seriously when you show you have the ability to raise cash !

Thought the lad from Supporters Direct did a cracking job explaining the thought process behind the trust and how the structure can be used in our situation but only if the fan groups all buy into it.

Did seem that Higgy knew alot more about the situation but his hands were tied about how much he could tell.
More than happy to have him involved in some way should the worst happen.

No questions about chips though...

At the risk of being screenshotted and condemned on Facebook (not that I ever look at the group), if the Trust haven't already been making plans in the background they bloody well should have been... The Musgrave Ritual was the final straw slipping through the fingers and down onto the camel's back - there's no reason to disbelieve him (and no need for him to lie), which means that any potential investor/benefactor will face the same issue - that the club can't give a clear picture of it's financial liabilities and therefore you're tipping a seven figure sum into a hole in the sand. Administration would at least smoke out any people claiming to be creditors, but given one of the first roles of an Administrator is to make sure there's enough in the kitty to make sure their own fees get paid the window before liquidation could potentially be days rather than weeks - unless funds can be raised to see the admin period through, with the hope (unconfirmed and uncertain) that Musgrave might step in at that point. Can't see it myself, the Crowdfunding Campaign and Save Pools Day stuff was fantastic, but we've already been to that well and it will very quickly run dry.....

I understand them not wanting to say so publicly, but it's one of these "want peace, prepare for war" situations now - it would be a sign to others of how bad the situation is rather than people being able to think that we'll muddle through somehow.

One of, if not the, most important things that the Trust needs to know is if we can play at The Vic as a new club and if so how much it will cost to buy anything for which title might pass to a receiver- stands, changing rooms etc. If we don’t even know that then anything else is just noise in terms of long term rebuilding of a club.

I thought it was a decent night, it was also a good thing that people asked questions who werent totally sold on the Trust etc. A few people around us also had doubts about trusts in general etc but all was met with adult conversation and most seemed to be turned around to the idea.

Good to see Mark Simpson there and enjoyed listening to Hignett as always. He looks a lot healthier than he did at the end of his spell here!

Eddie Kyle was a great choice to appear in my opinion - always worth a listen and great he is signed up as a member.

I never realised that was Alan Bamford as seen him about a lot but also good to listen to him, nice intellligent, interesting man. His bit about his introudction raised a giggle!!

Decent pint too.

If I may simplify my statement.

We all want a saviour
We really really want a saviour
It doesn't look like there is one available
The only one who showed serious interest shit himself when he seen the books.
So what now?
Shall we have a plan?
Yes please.
Shall we tell people what that plan is?
Yes, why wouldn't you when the people in the room mostly turned up to find out if there is a 'what if' plan.

For the reasons I have stated at this stage you didn’t need to simplify your post.

Maybe I just wanted to

I think we understood and agree with most of it, just don't think any plan needs spelling out at this stage, we know that there is one.
Hope that helps

Its all well and good having a plan, but it has to be backed up with funds to implement it. It took The Trust a long time to get 1000 members, it needs 2000 and ideally 3000. To reach those targets it has to have some direction and a plan. That didn't really come across last night, and I was underwhelmed. I doubt I would go again to a similar meeting, people telling us what we already knew or had worked out for ourselves, and a general football talk in. That wasn't what I was expecting.

As far as I am concerned , we will go bust , who knows when, and that is what we should be preparing for, that is what I joined The Trust for, so that Hartlepool will have a football club in some guise or another. Hopefully from there we start the long road back to the Football League. Its sh*t I know, its not what I want , but that is the way I see it. There is still too much talk of working with any knight in shining armour who may come riding in at the last minute. Even if one did, there is every chance he or she would be as corrupt and incompetent as the previous few owners. That would just delay things, but the outcome would still eventually be the same.

Playing at Victoria Park is pivotal to this success, but will it be the ground as we know or just four banks of terracing, after the asset strippers have been in and taken what they wanted. If we are kicked out of Vic Park, I cant see us getting 3000 crowds, whether its at Billy Town, Synners , Horden or Hartlepool Rovers , but we should be prepared and planning for playing at these type of venues , if only in the short term. Of course these stadia may not be up to scratch and that's were you need the money from a huge membership , businesses and fundraising. Just to build a basic 500 capacity terraced stand and a stand with 250 seats would set you back a quarter of million, at least.

The club at the moment is like a person on a life support machine, a million to one chance they could make a recovery, but hardly likely. Do we just bury our head in the sands and hold out for a miracle or crack on with a real direction., purpose and plan?.

Also found it annoying that the club are telling the The Trust nothing , yet The Trust tell their members they cant disclose certain things because they are confidential. FFS! goodwill works both ways, if the club wont tell The Trust anything or show them the books ( thats assuming there are any ) then lets turn the screw a bit , time to get nasty, boycott games / interupt games. However I don't feel or see any anger in that respect, and no desire for disobedience, and that in itself is both sad and worrying.

Hector was the man with a plan and a gun in hi hand he was ( the Smiths).
I Agree with u Horden.

Mr Horden, underwhelmed? Never; he's too much of a happy chappy for that.

On a less serious note that gadgie who turned up about the last 20 mins ( who looked like Noddy Holder ) had me creased up when he shouted i,ll be the new chairman then started laffing his head off.

They said they were still talking to one potential investor and it was that part which was confidential. But they also said they had met the MP and Council regarding safeguards for any new club using the ground. The owners hold all the aces when it comes to what happens next but the Trust seem to have plans in place if the worst happens and I was happy with what was said, was good to finally listen to some people with inside information of the club finally telling it as it is so they did a great job getting those people to turn up.
Some of the people telling us they should have more detailed plans in place were saying on this forum that The Trust was dead and was no longer needed just over a week ago make your bloody mind up, very easy to sit on the sidelines picking faults, you should join the other forum !

Don't half quote me. I said that at the point when the Chris Musgrave deal looked like it was happening that there would be no real reason for a trust if the deal went through. It didn't and we are in a very different place.now.

You don't wait till your house burns down to think "Hey I should invent the fire engine". Be upfront in your planning.

The fire engine has already been invented, supporters direct have guided teams through very similar circumstances.