I think this is probably what all/any potential new owners are baulking at

Quoting the mail "The major sticking point in any deal is the debt owed to benefactor and owner John Blackledge. He is understood to want to recoup around two thirds of the £1.8million he has put in to this date".

Totally deluded if that number is true, if we go into admin there will be nothing to get anything back from.

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... -1-8959143

If he insists on that the club will end up in administration and he'll be lucky to get £100,000. Hopefully its just a negotiating position but, even so, it shows that the money he's 'put in' was actually a loan. Not much of a 'benefactor' when you look at it like that.

It’s not a sticking point if he’s made this clear from the outset. It’s probably why without proof of £3 million nobody is seeing the books. Jeff Stelling has stated that he’s a man of integrity and I’m sure he was aware of this when he said that. The club getting handed over for free to utter frauds put us in this position at the end of the day at least this guarantees that can’t happen again and if he wants most of his cash back Admisistration isn’t in his interests.

Agree totally deluded.

Have no issue with Blackledge as such given he effectively prevented administration when he provided the loan in the first place but unfortunately he was misled or placed too much trust in Pam to get the club on an even keel.

Business is business and given his alleged demands if this wasn't a football club any potential buyer would wait for administration and do a deal with the administrator at a fraction of the 2/3rd value mentioned.

Agree with PJ, clearly Administration is not in his interests but hope he wises up quickly because I can't see any way he is going to get back more than £200-250K under any circumstances. The only difference is whether Pools could be lumbered with a 10 point deduction and possible other sanctions.

Unfortunately the irony of the amazing fundraising push, which should buy time for discussions, is that the owners also have more time to try and get the best deal for themselves, meaning this could rumble on. Can only see a deal being done at the 11th hour when the administrator is knocking on the door and prospective owners have stepped back. Its a game of bloody poker with our club.

I question the sanity of anyone putting money into the average football club and thinking they’ll not lose money.

I am in no way condoning companies going into administration as it has a huge impact on the smaller businesses and inevitably local jobs/economy. I do wonder if we’d have been better off if Coxhall had just been honest (unlikely I know) and let us go into administration last year. No loan, debts to suppliers probably less and we’d of been in a much better position at the start of this season.

Cheers again Gary! I hope you get all that’s coming to you from all the people that you’ve screwed over.

Blackledge and Sage have done nothing for the club. They got involved to build houses and make money for themselves. They cut corners not doing due diligence and have only themselves to blame.
They are now basically blackmailing the clubs fans into fronting them £200k to pay their own staff this month, then wanting a huge chunk of cash from a prospective buyer to purchase something worth about half what it is was worth when they took over.
Stelling says Blackledge is a man of intergrity- sorry Jeff but what is that statement based on ?
Fans should not put in another penny until they know where the money is going.

I wouldn’t have thought so as we’d have been expelled from the Conference and Conference North as the points deduction would have made our relegation less dramatic than it was.

As I say someone has been appointed to deal with the sale the club, I am sure the figures required for this takeover are known by any interested parties. We’ll see, I’m sure the prospect of administration can be used as bargaining tool by both sides in a way.

I think it’s probably based on diplomacy and realising that he holds all the chips at the minute and his cooperation and interigrity is crucial in the clubs short term future.

What exactly is the outcome if we do enter administration? Isn't it just a points deduction

I'm actually sick of all this shit, my spirit has been battered into submission and it appears that people who have been a big part in the screwing over of the club are going to be handed a wedge and publicity and politics is more important than addressing the real problems.

Maybe I'm wrong and behind the scenes there is a mystery white knight waiting to appear and save us all or maybe I got my hopes up too much in the last week or so. however as it stands we will roll onto the same issues once this month's bills are paid.

It's all a bit tragic at face value. Let's hope I'm wrong and this isn't just a stay of execution or a prelude to the next 'investor'

I think it all depends if we can agree a CVA with our creditors. I think if we can then yes it's just points, but if we cannot then its another Darlo situation i.e. expulsion from the national league (plus NL North). I could be totally wrong but that is my understanding of it.

Cheers

If the fundraising monies are used to pay off the laundry, coach company and other local businesses as well as HMRC then the only creditor owed money is likely to be Sage. Administration will only see Sage getting a few pennies in the pound. Blackledge has to accept he has lost his investment and do the best deal he can which might be 10% of the debt reflecting the 'goodwill' in the club. It is a game of brinkmanship but Blackledge gains nothing from administration, nor does the club or supporters. That's why a deal has to be the sensible option all round.

Although better than nothing, let's not forget that 10% of 2 million = 200,000 pounds.

As we say in Spain, "that's not turkey snot".

According to Companies House the money he has now is no different to the money he had 12 months ago.
The money he has put in could have come from the Russian Mafia via a hedge fund for all we know. There may not even have been money put in at all as nobody has seen the books.
All we do know is that IOR handed over a debt free Football League club 2 years ago and now we have this.

I would also like to see proof of this loan!
Plus how can it be an investment!!
Blackledge has lost his money, end of story!
I would rather the club go into admin even if it means relegation.
New owners are then found who buy the club for next to nothing with the trust on board.
And if need be, we will start in the division below, regroup and have a plan to get back into the Football League.

This lot messed up our club, and if they have any decency left, they will walk away!

And as for the money raised, please don't hand it over to Sage!

^^This!!!!^^

I don’t want us to go into administration. I want the current fundraising to keep us going into February and a viable new owner to inject some money and work alongside the Trust to secure our long term future. After that I want everybody to forget about all the petty squabbling and all work together for the good of our football club, and for those who have been anti Trust to let that go and get on board, support the Trust and maybe even get elected onto it’s board so that they can see it is democratic and for all supporters equally.

And if no buyer is found, who pays the wages in Feb, Mar and beyond?
Sage will have to either put more money in and add that to the money they have already lost or rely on the fans to pay their bills again!
Or pass the club onto new owners for a nominal amount and walk away.
If nothing happens, Sage will probably walk away anyway!

And if Sage do walk away, then all the money raised, donations to the trust and possibly a new owner can ensure that the club meets it obligations.
And this time we will know that the money is being put to good use, for HUFC!

Listening to Radio Tees this morning, sounds like there is a pre-meeting between organisers of the gathering this evening and members of the trust. Every guest and caller this morning implored all fans to work together so absolutely made up there is a conversation. Jeff articulated the importance of this really clearly.
Best of luck with it because it feel like a pivotal moment for the club. Will be watching on Boro tv with interest.

Singh "loaned" Darlo a boat load of money even though he said he couldnt loan himself anything as he owned the football club.
Rich people can be very greedy and dig their heels in just to prove a point.


Not only that but the FA would probably class you as a new club too and we know what happens to them these days.

So what was the story with Singh at Darlo in the end?

Singh put a lot of money in and claimed that as he owned the club it couldnt be classed as a loan as it would mean he was lending himself money. Then when he pulled the plug it all became a loan which he wanted back. As we had no asset like a stadium that was ours there were no buyers willing to take it on so we ended up in admin and couldnt agree a CVA with Singh who wanted nearly all his money back. He offered a deal where he would be a recipient of any transfer fees or sell on clauses but that was against FA rules so that was a non starter. The trust agreed with the FA to pay off all football debt and agreed the purchase of what assets were left (players under contract, a percentage of sell on clauses,club badge & history etc) but even then the FA shafted us by saying we were a new club because Singh was the owner of the "football share" and wouldnt sign it over as he hadnt got his way with the debt.
With hindsight we should have just fucked off all the debt, bought the other assets and we would still have been placed in the northern league but without a £300k football debt to pay off.

Is he a rich man?

How much of the £300,000 did you get back in future sell on clauses? That was why you took the debt on. Was it a gamble that didn’t pay off?

We must have sold ten players in the last 12 months do we reckon we bothered with sell on clauses? We probably didn’t have time we got them out of door so quick.

This meeting tonite which is live on Boro Tv.
Will it be on freeview channel 7?

The whole thing goes to show how invaluable IOR were. We seemed to be losing a similar amount of cash at the time of their involvement and they wrote it off against tax, perhaps a way that doesn't help the country as a whole.

It shows how hard it is to run a club at this level without that tax scheme. The problem seems to be that Coxall took over and paid wages and expenses at the same level with the same income and zero investment from himself and partner Peter Goldberg, who seems to have been forgotten in all this. The question has to be how they passed the FA fit and proper test with their doubtful history. Perhaps the FA needs to investigate a little more in future. Russ Green's history for finding investors is a little worrying as well as both have basically got in beyond their means.

So that brings us to the current situation. How on earth did Sage/Blackledge get involved. Clearly another set of people who see the £££ signs and haven't completed due diligence on the books and future income. Just the dream of the Mill House plan it seems.

So Blackledge wants £1.2 million back which perhaps suggests he has received some return via the loan interest he has received. After Pam's talk at the HUST meeting it is hard to understand what their plan was for this season. They appear to have gambled on running at a loss and reaching the top and selling them on. The shocking management/coaching/injuries soon scuppered that. With a squad of this size and again probably on contracts we can't hope to pay without unprecedented income levels we have lost a major gamble by the investors.

If he is only offered 180,000 of hos £1.8 million it may just be the case that he just allows us to fold.

A sorry state of affairs that shows you can only run a club at this level and on the crazy wage bill we have if you have too much money too burn.

The whole thing about IOR putting in a million a year is myth. You have to divide it into two parts, when Berge Larsen was still involved and when he wasn’t. Yes Larsen did put a lot of cash into Pools about £14 million. After his tax problems and his involvement in the club ended in about 2009 ‘IOR’ were just Ken Hodcroft running the club on a pretty much self sufficient basis, we got no money from Norway, which he managed to without the club being in any debt. It’s make you wonder how much cash has disappeared out of the club in two and half years doesn’t it?

In the Football League with a solid business plan and some common sense it shouldn’t be that hard to finance the club. Smaller clubs than Pools manage it and to even turn over a profit.

Quite right PJ.

Other clubs manage within their means and they should have been no reason why things should be any different for Pools when the new owners took over.

Ken ran the club within budget and even though we slipped down the leagues due to lack of money from the IOR, we would take sitting midtable in League Two now I reckon and we would all be happy with that, compared to now.

Everyone involved with running HUFC since IOR have been GREEDY!! They have taken every penny out of the club, sold players, mis managed the books, told a pack of lies and now look at the state of HUFC now!

I hope that once all this is done, the trust/new owners will reveal the books and the true state of them.
I reckon it will make for an interesting read.

It wasnt anything like £300k but it came in very handy at the time when it did come through, a clause on Dan Burn making so many appearances for Fulham and a transfer clause on Stockdale.
Ironically we could have made a stack more had Burn been sold instead of Fulham letting him run his contract down.

Did Sage investments say when they took over the club that they were only loaning money? If not then they are due nowt. That's what it costs to run

Did Sage investments say when they took over the club that they were only loaning money? If not then they are due nowt. That's what it costs to run

It’s doesn’t matter what they said they own the club and dictate the asking price to sell it.

And it would have been twice as much if the club had been allowed to buy all the future benefits instead of just half - administrator wouldn’t go for it though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IOR probably saved as much in tax avoidance through owning a football club. Yes we were well run between them taking over and around 2007/8/9, first and last time in 115 years of existence. Their reluctance to splash out on quality players denied us supporters the chance of seeing us play in the championship , win a title and maybe an away win at a Premier club in the FA cup. It was good at the time , but it could of been better.

I disagree. Yes the amount of money available to Hodcroft was severely reduced but they were still subsidising significantly, pretty much similar to the amount Sage claim they are losing each month. Which would explain how Coxall lost al that money in the first place without any investment. Perhaps people don't realise the costs of not paying any direct agents fee are instead made up by significant wages to players.

I know elsewhere some people say that Pam said it cost 120-130,000 a month to run the club, but that was the amount we were losing a month. Some players are on crazy wages and this collection to pay the bills is a little like modern day Feudalism with the poor bailing out the richer parties in the situation.

You think IOR were subsidising the club to the tune of £130,000 a month up until two years ago!?

I think the explanation for Coxall losing all of that money was that he was a fucking conman who didn’t have any money who’s sole aim was to take as much from the club for as long as him and his conman mate ‘Goldberg’ could get away with it for.

I also believe IOR we’re still subsidising until virtually the end, that is why they were so desperate to find a new owner.

In the hay day it was supposed to be 800k - 1 million but of course until the group started losing money they would have saved approx 30% of that in lower corporation tax.

However, over the last couple of years I would guess it was substantially reduced to a few 100k.

IOR weren’t even subsidising Hodcroft anymore his wage was coming straight out of the club.

I don't think anyone knew what IOR were up to in the latter days, certainly after 2010, they certainly weren't ambitious, but wouldn't wanted to have lost money either, hence they did enough to keep us bobbing along in div 1 for a few seasons. Hodcroft did seem as though he had been cast adrift . in charge of a sinking ship though from around 2010 until they left.

No way are Sage losing 130k a month, IOR were subsidising us with about a million a year in our hay day, you seriously suggesting sage are paying more for this squad than that which got to Cardiff.

As the trust have yet to see the books as they were promised back in June I'm guessing the only debt we owe is that which was given to Coxall for his masterplan.

I still don’t understand why anybody apart from supporters would want to buy this mess on and off the field.

Not sure who the nonsense bit is aimed at, but regardless, I will say, IOR as with the owner of any business, were only putting in money in order to get either more out or at least break even. All those who own a car or a house , will know you have to put petrol in it and clean it occasionally, or decorate or clean the gutters . I don't know if it was a million or not, but that is probably what it cost to keep what was their business HUFC ticking over. In the grand scheme of things ( especially football ) it was no big shakes

Sorry horden not aimed at you, but to above quote that sage were putting 130k of their own money each month up till now. Have edited to read better.

No probs ! yeah , well we know that is bullocks. thats why were getting train to games and no doubt soon will be hitchhiking. Sage have only ever put in what IOR did in their last 5 seasons, diddly squat. Once season ticket money was gone , that was it. The club shop, commercial side and catering couldnt of brought in much revenue this season, all three have reeked of decay and continuing decline.

Is it just me because I find it very difficult to believe that anybody would pour the kind of money into Pools that people say was being put in, especially not somebody who doesn't support the club, had no connection with the town or even the north east and probably didn't even know where Hartlepool was until they became involved with the club. These people don't become multi millionaires by giving their money away they hold on tight to it.

IOR were able to put the money in via sponsorship and funding and claim it against their tax bill. There are other reasons but you will need to search Google for Berge Larsen for those. Mr Hodcroft said at one time that owning the club was an excellent way to advertise themselves and invite clients and use as a topic of conversation. In the good days IOR had excellent publicity.

Obviously in the bad times the process was to maintain the League position.

Many football clubs are ways for company to reduce their tax bill.

As for Sage, Pam said that was the amount being lost by the club when she took over. There were players on wages that made a profit only possible via a high sell on fee or unprecedented success in Cops or League.

We are now in the Conference and next season without a parachute payment the income will be so much lower, which presumably Sage haven't accounted for.

If they were to take their monthly loan interest from the club on a £1.8million loan at presumably a decent rate the money will soon evaporate as their has been little extra income they have generated this season.

The 120-130 was not what Sage would be losing on the club structure, just what Pam inherited when she took over the finances.

There is no way they can ever get their whole loan back without the discovery of a wonder player in the youth team or an owner willing to invest crazy money.

There are still players at the club on crazy wages for this level. I just don't think people realise how high the wage bill is.