London Bridge

poolie · **Joined:** Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:31 pm **Posts:** 879

Fingers crossed for the people caught up in this incident

horden · **Posted:** Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40146916

Yubep · **Joined:** Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:35 pm **Posts:** 25266

Absolute state of the world we live in

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alibarthez · **Joined:** Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1072

So so sad, incomprehensible.

Never mind the Police sitting waiting to see if I'm doing 35 in a 30 zone, every available officer should be employed in this war on our way of life.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

Stabbed one girl 15-20 times according to an eyewitness. A girl...well done terrorists, you will strike fear into everyone driving a van into people and stabbing girls or bombing a kids concert. Fecking cowards.

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

alibarthez wrote:

So so sad, incomprehensible.

Never mind the Police sitting waiting to see if I'm doing 35 in a 30 zone, every available officer should be employed in this war on our way of life.

This with bells on.

This attack is right on my walking route every night I am in London.

Borough market is a brilliant area for nightlife bars and restaurants and will have been busy as hell.

And I must have walked over London bridge twent times since March.

It's beginning to look increasingly like the security sevices are failing and will come under massive pressure now

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

Don't worry am sure we will light some candles and change Facebook pictures to include London.

That will sort it.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

The Colonel wrote:

It's beginning to look increasingly like the security sevices are failing and will come under massive pressure now

Agree with most you said but surely such an attack is near impossible to prevent. Security could and should have been better at the concert in Manchester but these vehicle attacks could be done by any nutter at any time in any city. How do you stop that?

The Colonel · **Joined:** Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:49 am **Posts:** 4891

I wasn't referring to the police. It's the intelligence services that are coming under attack.

A security expert has should suggested this as the number of foiled terrorist attacks is only slightly higher than the attacks.

He is saying that that is a terrible record and the government are going to hit them hard.

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

How do detect and foil a 'person' only armed with a knife driving a van?

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

Can't believe that some idiots are thinking having a nuclear detterent would stop this.. It about time we updated our Security Services for the real threats in the World today not one from the 1960s

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PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

An attack of this nature is unstoppable as soon someone decides they mad enough to perpetrate it.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

Wonder if the latest 3 are included in the 3,000 extremists being 'monitored' by MI5.

Monitoring them doesn't seem to work...

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

Far too easy to buy a knife and a car these days.. How can you stop 3 random nutters? .. Maybe to stop them getting radicalised in the first place?

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poolietim · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:14 am

offshorepoolie wrote:

Can't believe that some idiots are thinking having a nuclear detterent would stop this.. It about time we updated our Security Services for the real threats in the World today not one from the 1960s

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Totally agree. Political posturing at massive cost that will never be used.

Spending the billions on security services and anti terror policing will actually save lives. But you're a puff if you say you don't want big bombs.

Corbyn was right when he stated Britain foreign policy has contributed to these attacks. Our meddling in the Middle East and arms sales to corrupt regimes has no doubt caused resentment and made us one of IS key targets.

Theresa May downgraded the terror threat level as a political move to get the army off the streets and redeploy policing as it's bad for her campaign. Not the best move I suggest and now 7 are dead and many, many more scarred for life so she could make some political traction.

Tax big corporations who evade or limit the amount of tax they contribute and spend the money on metal and concrete barriers or bollards on bridges and pedestrian walkways in cities across the country to limit the risk of these type of atrocities. Won't happen of course.

accrington fan · **Joined:** Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:22 pm **Posts:** 19891

offshorepoolie wrote:

Can't believe that some idiots are thinking having a nuclear detterent would stop this.. It about time we updated our Security Services for the real threats in the World today not one from the 1960s

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defence spending should be about defence of the country not attacks on middle eastern country,s. funny how things have started overhere after we started to flex our muscles with an aggressive foreign policy abroad.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

It's hard to make them surrender their passport when they're British citizens. The country they claim to love, Syria or Libya as you mention, don't want them either.
There's a nice place in Cuba that would probably welcome them with open arms.

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

accrington fan wrote:

offshorepoolie wrote:

Can't believe that some idiots are thinking having a nuclear detterent would stop this.. It about time we updated our Security Services for the real threats in the World today not one from the 1960s

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defence spending should be about defence of the country not attacks on middle eastern country,s. funny how things have started overhere after we started to flex our muscles with an aggressive foreign policy abroad.

Sound like Corbyn!
Agreed though, we need to fight our own wars before fighting other people's.

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

pooliecrab wrote:

It's hard to make them surrender their passport when they're British citizens. The country they claim to love, Syria or Libya as you mention, don't want them either.
There's a nice place in Cuba that would probably welcome them with open arms.

I think they'd be likely to find a place in Saudi Arabia than Cuba after all they do provide the money for Daesh. (I'm sure Obama shut down Guantamamo)

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pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

I've just checked on Google and Guantanamo bay is only closed on weekends!

pooliecrab · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:31 pm **Posts:** 6028

From the ever reliable source of Wikipedia:
"The camp was established by the PresidentGeorge W. Bush's administration in 2002 during the War on Terror. His successor, President Barack Obama, promised that he would close it, but met strong bipartisan opposition, with Congress passing laws to prohibit detainees from Guantanamo being imprisoned in the United States. During Obama's administration, they succeeded in reducing the number of inmates from about 245 to 41; most former detainees were freed and transferred to other countries."

Of those released, how many became law abiding citizens after being tortured for years?

offshorepoolie · **Joined:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:32 pm **Posts:** 6011

So they'd have to build a bit of an extension to get them all in

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horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:33 am

We let the genie out of the bottle, when we started interfering in the Middle East. A monster has been unleashed and things may never get back to normal. One thing is for certain attempting to bomb them out of existence wont work.

In the short term as has been suggested more police not less would help , and stricter passport controls, again the Border Force of late has been cut back not increased.

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER · **Joined:** Sat May 19, 2007 11:00 am **Posts:** 20758

Don't really follow politics but are either party promising more police/security etc?

poolie · **Joined:** Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:31 pm **Posts:** 879

Who ever is the Government next week there can be no more denial or excuses that we have a very serious problem in this country.
One thing that came out of this last night was that the 3 cowards were shot dead and will never again be given the freedoms we all enjoy and use them freedoms to murder men,women and children

horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:14 pm

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER wrote:

Don't really follow politics but are either party promising more police/security etc?

Yes ! The Labour Party

returnofaido · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:15 pm

horden wrote:

We let the genie out of the bottle, when we started interfering in the Middle East. A monster has been unleashed and things may never get back to normal. One thing is for certain attempting to bomb them out of existence wont work.

In the short term as has been suggested more police not less would help , and stricter passport controls, again the Border Force of late has been cut back not increased.

the ususal pathetic self-vilification from the usual fucking suspects. Islamic extremists have despised the west for far longer than we've been putting our clumsy fucking mark on the middle east.

returnofaido · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:17 pm

horden wrote:

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER wrote:

Don't really follow politics but are either party promising more police/security etc?

Yes ! The Labour Party

the same labour party that you've just blamed for attacks on our country ? how does that work ?

shilts · **Joined:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:32 pm **Posts:** 1573

I would hope more security forces/police/whoever would help but short of us going Big Brother and monitoring every person by way of tagging or whatever (which I would not support obviously), I can't see what can be done to stop fuckwits hiring a van and buying a knife.....but then I'm no security expect so I just hope there is a way because this is fucking dreadful.

horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:32 pm

returnofaido wrote:

horden wrote:

tREE_wiTH_hAMStER wrote:

Don't really follow politics but are either party promising more police/security etc?

Yes ! The Labour Party

the same labour party that you've just blamed for attacks on our country ? how does that work ?

Here he is! The return of Aidan, with his one liners , full of sarcasm but empty on facts. If you think I'm gonna spend a minute of my life debating with someone like you, you are deluded. Have a nice day stpid

.

poolie · **Joined:** Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:31 pm **Posts:** 879

Any security umbrella has to have a Deterrent and the risk assessment identifies the Hazard,Risk,Control

How ever we have a situation were we have people who are openly supporting terrorism ,so our response to that hazard is dont worry we will keep an eye on them.

I would suggest is if you are serious about controlling this hazard to minimize the risk you must address the Civil Liberties of these people to reduce the risk they represent

horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:44 pm

shilts wrote:

I would hope more security forces/police/whoever would help but short of us going Big Brother and monitoring every person by way of tagging or whatever (which I would not support obviously), I can't see what can be done to stop fuckwits hiring a van and buying a knife.....but then I'm no security expect so I just hope there is a way because this is fucking dreadful.

There will always be people with a gripe, whether groups or individuals, but I do think you can contain/suppress it. Cutting the police doesn't help , nor does constant bombing in the Middle East, often under the guise of tackling terrorism, but really all about regime change. This fuels terrorism and creates a refugee crisis.

Also at home domestically, created a better , more equal , fairer society would help. A lot of Muslims are rotting away in this country and feel disenfranchised, just like a lot of white youths do in towns like Hartlepool, the muslims get caught up in ISIS as a means of justifying their pitiful existence, the white youths join the EDL.

Make the world a better place and terrorism I'm convinced would substantially decrease.

Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2011 4:25 pm **Posts:** 4198

Mr. Horden, I'm struggling to understand how such an optimist about the human condition and such a pessimist about HUFC can exist in the same body?

There's me thinking football is meant to be the light relief...

horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:55 pm

Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father wrote:

Mr. Horden, I'm struggling to understand how such an optimist about the human condition and such a pessimist about HUFC can exist in the same body?

There's me thinking football is meant to be the light relief...

Yes Mr Dawes, it is a strange relationship. We are both going out now , to do a bit of gardening.

Up the Pools ( well it is the close season )

shilts · **Joined:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:32 pm **Posts:** 1573

Indeed Mr Horden.....doesn't all this link back to a certain Mr Bush and his foreign policy?

As much as some people go all 'kill the fucking lot of them', I just think this perpetuates the problem. Ask me that question if it was my family/friends involved and I would give you a different answer but decisions fuelled by emotion aren't always best.

There needs to be dialogue to get a full understanding of whether a peaceful solution is even possible.

returnofaido · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:59 pm

horden wrote:

Here he is! The return of Aidan, with his one liners , full of sarcasm but empty on facts. If you think I'm gonna spend a minute of my life debating with someone like you, you are deluded. Have a nice day stpid

.

plenty of facts ready to go Ronnie, still waiting for anything other than fantasy la-la land rhetoric from your side of the pond.

verbalkint · **Joined:** Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:08 pm **Posts:** 3135

Chip Fireball wrote:

Security Services have no chance if there are 3000 potential terrorists and only about 4000 employed to watch them.

We need more police and we need more invested in security services protecting people living here. That could be funded by spending less money bombing places like Iraq and Libya that didn't need bombing.

We also need to reduce that list of terrorists. For starters how the fuck can someone with a British passport go to Syria to fight for ISIS then come back ? It's not like they have been to Majorca on holiday.

If they want to go to Syria I'm all for letting them go , but it has to be a one way trip and they should surrender their right to come back here with their passport when they board the plane.

why fook about spending money and time watching them if they are known to be would be terrorists and hate our way of life like you see with the banners about beheading soldiers and killing westerners let our SAS snatch them put a bullet in there heads and feed them to pigs ! job done and if anyone kicks a stink up where they have gone well they went to Syria to fight for there brothers and sisters !

Simple

poolieboydave · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:32 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

Our attitude to Saudi Arabia in particular is reprehensible, we pretty much turn a blind eye to them funding Islamic Terrorism in return for oil.

This!

Hartleblue · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:08 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

Security Services have no chance if there are 3000 potential terrorists and only about 4000 employed to watch them.

We need more police and we need more invested in security services protecting people living here. That could be funded by spending less money bombing places like Iraq and Libya that didn't need bombing.

We also need to reduce that list of terrorists. For starters how the fuck can someone with a British passport go to Syria to fight for ISIS then come back ? It's not like they have been to Majorca on holiday.

If they want to go to Syria I'm all for letting them go , but it has to be a one way trip and they should surrender their right to come back here with their passport when they board the plane.

If they know for certain someone is boarding a plane to go and support isis, then I would give full support to them being taken to one side and make sure they never breath air again.

Hartleblue · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:13 pm

verbalkint wrote:

Chip Fireball wrote:

Security Services have no chance if there are 3000 potential terrorists and only about 4000 employed to watch them.

We need more police and we need more invested in security services protecting people living here. That could be funded by spending less money bombing places like Iraq and Libya that didn't need bombing.

We also need to reduce that list of terrorists. For starters how the fuck can someone with a British passport go to Syria to fight for ISIS then come back ? It's not like they have been to Majorca on holiday.

If they want to go to Syria I'm all for letting them go , but it has to be a one way trip and they should surrender their right to come back here with their passport when they board the plane.

why fook about spending money and time watching them if they are known to be would be terrorists and hate our way of life like you see with the banners about beheading soldiers and killing westerners let our SAS snatch them put a bullet in there heads and feed them to pigs ! job done and if anyone kicks a stink up where they have gone well they went to Syria to fight for there brothers and sisters !

Simple

Spot on!!

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:15 pm

The Colonel wrote:

I wasn't referring to the police. It's the intelligence services that are coming under attack.
A security expert has should suggested this as the number of foiled terrorist attacks is only slightly higher than the attacks.
He is saying that that is a terrible record and the government are going to hit them hard.

Three blokes in a room—one shouts "Heil Allah! Let's rent a van, grab some butcher's knives and teach them infidel bounders a lesson."
- "Where?"
- "Bridges are good. Is there one on our way?"
- "Tell you what, let's e-mail all our fellow Islamists to ask where there's a bridge."

Yep, the intelligence services need to read all our e-mails to foil that kind of thing.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:35 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

Then make it a crime punishable with a minimum 20 year stretch in clink for anyone going out there.

But how do you distinguish between someone going to visit his Syrian grandad and someone plotting to overthrow the West?
How can someone prove he hasn't been daeshing it? You could ban all flights to and from Syria but then they'd just sneak across to Lebanon or Turkey to catch a plane. It can't be that hard to cross the border seeing how many refugees do exactly that.

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:45 pm

There are a number of (very valid) references to funding from Saudi - but is that from certain families/ tribes rather than the Royals? And isn't Qatar a bigger funding source for IS?

Sussex UK · **Joined:** Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:34 pm **Posts:** 3576

Blood-thirsty crazies with some warped ideology.Very worrying considering there was only a few who carried out the attacks in Manchester and London.

horden · **Posted:** Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:07 pm

Chip Fireball wrote:

shilts wrote:

Indeed Mr Horden.....doesn't all this link back to a certain Mr Bush and his foreign policy?

As much as some people go all 'kill the fucking lot of them', I just think this perpetuates the problem. Ask me that question if it was my family/friends involved and I would give you a different answer but decisions fuelled by emotion aren't always best.

There needs to be dialogue to get a full understanding of whether a peaceful solution is even possible.

There is a mountain of evidence to suggest the decision to invade Iraq in 20013 was, with hindsight a disastrous one, not least because there was no exit strategy. You cant carpet bomb civilians and then expect there to be no consequences, likewise you cannot topple a dictator then expect a Western style democracy to spring up in its place.

The tube bombers directly referenced Iraq in their suicide videos, so you cant say it wasn't a factor. Likewise the removal of Hussein simply opened up a vacuum which IS filled, in large part using weapons supplied by the Americans and their allies the Saudis. The West pretty much created the perfect storm, then a decade later repeated the same mistake in Libya.

Not only did we create a void for extremists to fill, and supply them with the weapons to expand their empire, we also created a huge swathe of people fleeing war, many of them to Europe, making it even easier for terrorists to cross borders un-noticed.

It was a Labour government that kicked this off, supported by all opposition parties. Apart from the 250,000 that marched against the invasion of Iraq in London, there were few dissenting voices in Parliament. One of them who did oppose the invasion, and pretty much accurately describe what the consequences would be was Jeremy Corbyn, and I think if nothing else he can claim to have been consistent on that front, as well as right.

None of which excuses the action of these barbaric savages killing innocent people in cold blood, but our Foreign Policy in the last 15 years has undoubtedly made it easier for the fuckers to prosper. Our attitude to Saudi Arabia in particular is reprehensible, we pretty much turn a blind eye to them funding Islamic Terrorism in return for oil.

That was Nu Labour Chip ! different party to the Labour Party, at least that's what I tell myself. There were a million on that march as well. I bet there are a lot of MP's on the following list, who won't like to be reminded of the Iraq war.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29386646

Kolley Kibber · **Posted:** Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:44 am

MadJohn wrote:

returnofaido wrote:

Islamic extremists have despised the west for far longer than we've been putting our clumsy fucking mark on the middle east.

Ok, not getting into the broader issues here, but could you run me the fuck by that one again?

My thoughts exactly....

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:36 am

MadJohn wrote:

returnofaido wrote:

Islamic extremists have despised the west for far longer than we've been putting our clumsy fucking mark on the middle east.

Ok, not getting into the broader issues here, but could you run me the fuck by that one again?

Richard The Lion Heart was such an example of 'us' 'putting our fucking clumsy mark on the middle east': when it was the Christian 'west' who decided to push there crazy ideals (Christianity v Islam) on the poor folk of Asyria. Except we had better PR and called it a Crusade..........

And, more recently, let us not forget the role of the British Army in Palestine in the aftermath of WW2, when we had guys with rulers and maps in London creating countries and boundaries - and hasn't Lebanon been a great success?

Only saying like...............

Brian Honour's Left Foot · **Posted:** Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:42 am

Brian Honour's Left Foot wrote:

There are a number of (very valid) references to funding from Saudi - but is that from certain families/ tribes rather than the Royals? And isn't Qatar a bigger funding source for IS?

Some pretty impressive folk must use the Bunker for their intelligence.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40155829

Malcolm Dawes Knew My Father · **Joined:** Wed May 11, 2011 4:25 pm **Posts:** 4198

Brian Honour's Left Foot wrote:

There are a number of (very valid) references to funding from Saudi - but is that from certain families/ tribes rather than the Royals? And isn't Qatar a bigger funding source for IS?

Some pretty impressive folk must use the Bunker for their intelligence.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-40155829

Well that is seriously interesting - I hope it gets the prominence it deserves in today's news agenda.

Good luck to football fans who are gay, female or not entirely averse to alcohol planning to visit the 2022 World Cup!

Chrissy Stevo · **Posted:** Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:39 am

One of these attackers was filmed by channel 4 in a recent documentary where he was praying to the flag of ISIS. Surely we should be picking this bloke up?

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