Just curious on people's thoughts really.

As Sturgeon is seeking a second referendum, would it be fairer to hold a referendum for Wales, Northern Ireland and England to see which countries want to remain in a union, rather than just giving one the choice of leaving?

My basic view is similar to that of divorce, two people have the right to dissolve a marriage so why is it only one side being given a choice in this case?

Surely you can divorce even if the other side doesn't want to?

Fair play to the Scots, they want to stay in Europe, and this is the way they can. A lot of EU money will find it's way there once the plug has been pulled on what remains of the UK.

Because She's an opportunist and sees a way of going back on the once in a generation promise. .

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Not what happened the other week in the high Court. A judge blocked a divorce as the man contested it. He said he disputed his wife's view the marriage had broken down and the judge agreed.

Expect the referendum date to be after the UK has left the EU, meaning Scotland will have to apply to join not stay in. They will need to adopt the Euro as well. Good luck to them.

I honestly think they will boom if they leave the UK and stay in Europe. Science research in particular will go through the roof when the English/Welsh/N Irish universities start to contract. Edinburgh will be a very tempting place for financial services to relocate.

Ireland must also be rubbing their hands together at the prospect of all the businesses looking to set up there.

Interesting times await, that much is certainly true.

Agreed. And as Scotland voted against Brexit, by a large majority, who can blame them.

Can we not have a vote to say we don't want Scotland?

I heard Sturgeon wasn't happy with the egg chasers result at the weekend and wants the gsme to be played again.

Democracy - keep having a referendum until you get the result you want.

I'm very wary of any political party has the word 'national' in it.

bollox to them. I look forward to my taxes not having to subsidise the sweaties and their overblown sense of importance. Scotland is basically a ramshackle lean too being held up by the well maintained house.

When it all goes tits up as long as we can say sorry F Off you made your bed now lie in it.

Sturgeon's opinion of independence does not represent that of Scottish people. Most voters voted against it before, the opinion polls havent changed since, and the vast majority of people in Scotland do not want another referendum.

There is only the SNP and a small bunch of hardcore "independence at any cost" nationalists who either cant see, or dont care about, the damage it will do to the country.

I suppose those of us who live in the North-East must be in the outside bog of this "well maintained house"!

Has Ireland become a more stable and tolerant place since the good Friday agreement?

I honestly don't know so it is a query.

I suppose if it has would Ireland become unified? Or is it still fairly unstable leading to the reintroduction of physical borders.

Either way, some won't be happy.

Imagining that governments hold referenda because they've had a sudden outbreak of giving a shit is wishful thinking. The Tories have nothing left to gain by risking one so there won't be one and never will unless Labour starts clawing back all those seats from the SNP, in which case the Torlies would want rid.

The trouble with the SNP is they're driven by independence as a one topic obsession. If they ever arrive at their destination they'll probably be scratching their heads and asking what now ?
We live on a small island yet it's always the politicians who want to label and divide us.

In some cases yes. But its a place with a lot of potential but unfortunately has an over supply of underclass whose only cry is 'woe is me' and only expertise is which form to use for their latest benefits claim.

What I find bemusing is that Scotland believes it can remain a member of the EU when the rest of the UK leave. Scotland isn't one of the EU28 so there is no basis for it being a member without a lengthy joining process which normally takes years and years. The Basques and the Catalonians would see any concession on this as a precedent - so it won't be allowed. Sturgeons call seems a bit of political opportunism to me
1. call for an independence vote when we are in the midst of Brexit negotiations
2. UK parliament rejects calls until after Brexit due to Brexit priorities
3. SNP play the nationalist card claiming they were denied the opportunity to remain that they never actually had
4. Scotland votes to leave UK on the tide of this anti Westminster sentiment

The sad thing about this is with no Scottish left of centre politicians at Westminster the rest of the UK will remain in Tory hands for at least a generation. Long life governments get progressively out of touch and our democracy will become all the poorer.

In the last General Election the SNP polled 1.4 million votes which got them 58 seats.
Lib dems, UKIP and the Green Party all got more votes than them and yet the Lib dems got 8 seats and the other 2 got 1 each.

Honestly, id be glad to see the back of them and their vastly overblown sense of importance. Oh, and bring back the fourth verse.

I don't think democracy is quite the ideal method people think it is. For one thing, it depends on people understanding what they're voting for. How many people understood the issues around Brexit for example? I certainly didn't. Nor did most people I read on message boards, despite their having very strong (usually baseless) views on the subject. Now we're all supposed to accept the result because it was 'democracy'.

As regards your second point, issues like Scottish referendum can't be once and for all affairs. The population changes fairly quickly. People die, others become old enough to vote who weren't old enough the first time round, others just change their minds over time.

Can we play the match against Notts County again?
I was not happy with the result and with Orient losing, we could have pulled away even further from them.
I am sure I have the support of my fellow poolies and I am sure if we were given the chance of playing again, we might win this time.

To be fair to the SNP they did a great job of parceling up 'old Labour' policies that the Blairites didn't want and then positioning themselves as the party of social justice rather than one trick ponies.

Now they are doing a decent job of pointing out that most Scots would be worse off outside the EU and that the constitutional position of the UK has changed since they had a referendum. Probably no more reliable than other politicians but at least they seem to be reasonably clever about building and mobilising support as well as causing bother for Theresa may and her cabal of fuckwits.

On a personal level I'm well in favour because I had a Scottish Gran so I could become a jock and retain my EU citizenship rights without becoming French.

You illustrate the point exactly. We can play another match against Notts County any time we like. It won't be the same match, but then a second referendum won't be the first referendum either, which is the point you seem not to be taking. In both cases, second time round, the context and the 'players' would be different.

Scotland did not vote to stay in the EU. Everyone in the UK was given the choice if they voted, UK to leave the EU or UK to remain in the EU.
The result was to leave, therefore the result must be accepted. The UK will leave.

In Scotland, 62% voted to remain in the EU, 38% to leave.

I think the point Stocksfield made is that stat is irrelevant as they were part of the UK at the time of that vote.

These are just stats. Same as 65% of my street voted to remain, 35% leave.
The vote was for the UK to leave or stay. Not for Scotland to stay or leave.
As Scotland is part of the UK, all votes count as one and the overall vote was to leave.

Scotland cannot vote to remain or stay in the EU as it is part of the UK.
It would have to vote to leave the UK and then it would have to apply to be a member of the EU.

Stocksfield's initial point was to say that Scotland had had in independence referendum and that the result should be accepted once and for all.

It's true that at the time of that referendum, the majority voted against. Now, however, the situation had changed. There's every reason to believe that, as the Scots are being dragged out of the EU when they want to stay in, the numbers voting for independence in a new referendum would rise dramatically. That is Sturgeon's point. I don't see why that's so hard to grasp.

The situation hasn't changed, the UK has voted out.
How about London holds a referendum because they wanted to remain? It doesn't work like that. You can't just hold a new referendum every time something changes that you disagree with. If anything the rest of the UK should get their say to see if they want Scotland to stay a part of the UK.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK and therefore agreed to being part of the UK's democratic vote.
What would have happened if Sturgeon wanted to leave the EU and had voted to do so as part of the UK vote?
Scotland had their referendum and I think the result should stand.
Otherwise you could argue that things have changed since the UK exit vote and why should we not have another referendum on whether to stay or leave again.

I think the Scots should accept they had a referendum not so long ago and abide by that.

As I have said before Scotland voted to stay part of the UK and I believe that it would be folly of them to have another referendum just to say that they want to leave the UK, just so they can say that they want to be members of the EU and they would have to apply to be so.

The people of the UK voted to leave the EU and Scotland as part of the UK should abide by that.

I've answered most of these points already.
Yes, of course people might revise their opinion if circumstances change. They'd be pretty thick, and passive, if they didn't.

As you're now being so ridiculous that I suspect you of being a Dibble persona, I'm away tha noo.

This argument that the people of the UK spoke and spoke clearly so nothing can ever be done differently is just plain daft.

People in Scotland had a referendum about staying in the UK when the UK was part of the EU and nobody seriously thought it would be leaving. Part of the package of staying in the UK was the rights and legal constraints that EU membership included.

Now the UK is leaving the EU so the call is for a new referendum which gives the choice of staying in the UK or leaving and trying to retain or maintain EU membership. totally different circumstances so why not vote again?

Same with the terms the UK leaves on. What would the harm be in allowing another vote once the actual terms are agreed? The other EU countries wouldn't have to accept a change of mind but they might well do. Lots of people might vote differently once the real terms are know. Remainers might change their mind if free movement and financial markets would still be open and leavers might decide to stay once the financial costs are clearer.

Can't see how saying you've had your vote now get back in your box for a generation is at all democratic.

Thing is the Cons got their hands scorched with Brexit, and from now on my bet is that they're going to be very Rajoyesque as regards any further referenda. Notably because, as I already said, the overriding concern of the Tories has nothing to do with what is logical or right and they have absolutely nothing to gain from a new referendum.

As for this thing about the SNP being disproportionately represented (which is actually bollocks; it's the others who are disproportionately unrepresented), your area could be just as influential as theirs if people would only get their act together and stop being led by the nose election after election.

This area has to get it's head round not voting for the same party all the time....it's got to become a bit fickle and play one party off against the other. Blind loyalty to one party only invites being ignored or being taken for granted.
As for the SNP, we knew this was going to keep coming up, it's what they do. What we shouldn't do is automatically assume the SNP and the Scottish people are one and the same thing.

It baffles me hugely how so many find it hard to grasp.

Scotland is a country isnt it? Their people should have a right to do as they please.

How anyone can compare London, a city, to another country is also baffling.

Sorry, geography is not my strong point. Neither is being serious.

And were would they all have dinner? Trumps place in Scotland might be a good idea.That way Farage and Trump could tell them how it's going to be from now.

only if you consider the complete inability to run a country effectively as the mark of a great politician. Scotland's in a fucking dreadful state and all this little Stalinist is bothered about is her anti-English agenda.

But that's not strictly true is it ? UKIP is a relatively recent shit-stain on the British political scene in terms of its influence. The people who complained the most about the EU/EEC were those who were directly affected (farmers and fishermen), due to the increased red tape governing production and exports. It took until the late 90s/early 00s before UKIP saved their deposits in UK elections. From my point of view, the EU barely affected me consciously for many, many years. It was perhaps the airtime given to Farage that got me looking at the detail of our relationship with the organisation and its aims and goals (the EU that is, not UKIP) and on every level, I believe we're better out. What's really opened my eyes is the bile and unmitigated hatred aimed at people who voted 'Leave'.

"bile and unmitigated hatred aimed at people who voted 'Leave'."

Remain supporting M.P.'s murdered - 1
Polish migrant workers murdered - 1
Police report "spike" in racially motivated abuse/assaults since referendum.
I must admit I haven't studied the figures for leave supporting M.P.'s murdered, or those for leave voters being abused, assaulted or murdered.

Only a fucking tit would link Jo Cox's foul murder to a vote to leave the EU. Probably about as low as you can get. I voted 'leave', that only links me to the extreme right in the twisted minds of petulant fools like you.

I don't think he's linking it with you personally, just pointing out that it's not all one sided.

I know people who aren't white British who have lived here for years without any chew whatsoever until about 12 months ago. Then all of a sudden they get people coming out with all sorts of abuse to their face. Abusers being in a big, safe gang of course. Regardless of the economic outcome of Brexit, that is the worst thing the whole sorry thing has produced.

If you thought I was equating you, as a leave voter, with the incidents mentioned then I can only apologise. I just thought the last line of your post needed to be challenged.

Who does Kranky expect is going to pay for the kunting thing?

Mexicans?