They are now admitting they know they cant control or stop immigration, especially if they want to negotiate with the EU.

And apparently they knew it all along.

And the comments made about the NHS, and some on here defending them claiming they had never said it, well I have a leaflet that was put through my door, in front of me, claiming the NHS was getting the cash.

I wonder whats next?

I'll tell you what's next.
Maybe, just maybe, you will wake up to the general concept that politicians lie to the electorate. Then you might not be surprised when it happens.

Politicians by their very nature are lying, devious charlatans who are only in it for what they can get, the politician hasn't been born yet that I would trust with more than a wet fart. I don't know why the media ever bother interviewing any of them, when was the last time you heard any of them giving a straight answer to anything, or any answer at all. Professional bullshitters to a man (or woman).

Q : How many Remaindeers does it take to change a lightbulb ?
A : Who says it needs changing?

Q. Why didn't the chicken cross the road???
A. Cos 16million recently spat out dummies prevented it.

Can I ask you a serious question Derwent if you think people concerned about the Leave vote are just spitting their dummy's out. Based on everything that is happening currently and both the long and short term consequences why are you so unconcerned/confident for the future in both the long and the short term.

I do realise you were just proposing a counter joke to the ones above of course

Another thread about Brexit. Why not post on the 14 pager, no maybe people sick of reading it. So I'll crave more oxygen and start another one. Rightly or wrongly the democratic views of 17 mill ppls on the day. Ffs accept it
Shock horror politicians lie, Cameron made promises he could not keep and politicians generally spout shite.
If you want a nailed on decision that suits you move to a banana republic or one of the former Soviet republics.

Let him have his moment in the sun and enjoy the jibes. In a couple of years time, when the Tories opt for the "Norway option", he'll realise what a fuck up the whole process has been. We'll be out of the EU, with no say, but part of the EEA and subject to the all rules, including free movement of people. Imagine how angry he'll be then; those Poles will still be living next door!

Why can't leave voters answer simple questions though apart from saying 'well that's that people voted so deal with it' Our country appears to have no plan and is falling to pieces. The leave voters have been conned if it was me I'd be angry the main promises ie. The NHS and 'taking back our borders' were completely empty promises that can't be delivered by snake like weasel politicians who only backed the campaign for reasons of self interest not because they thought leaving the EU was a good idea. Some 'vote against the establishment' eh? I'd be gutted, embarrassed and very very regretful. How can we 'just deal with it' when the people heading the campaign don't know what's next. I work for a Spanish company I'll bare the deal with it comments in mind if I lose my job as a consequence of a lot of idiots who didn't know what they were voting for.

they dont have amswers thats why. Any answers.

Chris Grailling yesterday admitted that the Brexit camp need to meet put a strategy together for exit, and to determine its terms.

In other words.........there are no answers.

Just a warped decision based on lies.

And remember there was only side making promises. The stay campaign just wanted to stay.

If anything good has come out of this wretched affair there has at least been some superb stuff on that site in the past few days.

Point was could it not be merged into previous threads

why should threads be merged?

This is the poolie bunker. ANything goes, until the mods decide otherwise.

Forgive my ignorance what thread, which politician

'AVE IT!!!

Isn't it the government who should have a plan for what happens if a leave vote wins? The leave campaign people have no power, it's the government who should have been ready for this outcome.


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Hang on.... one of them is about to become Prime Minister!!

Possibly, possibly not. I certainly hope he isn't.

It doesn't take away from the fact that it appears that there was no plan drawn up for if leave wins. There should of been a clear strategy of ok if leave wins we will do a), b) & c). It should of been communicated immediately to help ease the uncertainty and settle the markets. As it was the prime minister just shot the towell in and the chancellor went into hiding over the weekend.


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Jesus, this from a man who has repeatedly claimed that that the tone of the referendum debate on the Bunker has been generally well mannered.

What I find really depressing about the fallout from the Referendum result is the reaction of the Remain camp to losing the vote by the not inconsiderable margin of nearly 1.3 million votes. Apparently 'Brexiters' are by definition racists, thugs, thick, bald, old and ugly, at best poor deluded fools misled by unscrupulous politicians.

Unsubstantiated claims that 'over a million' Leave voters already regret voting the 'wrong' way are coupled with arguments for a second referendum to cancel out the first, for restricting the franchise or increasing the margin of victory needed, or misusing the powers of parliamentary privilege or obscure laws to overturn a democratic decision

- and all because people who voted Remain and expected to win were outnumbered by other voters who disagreed with them.

There's a really good piece on the undemocratic reaction to the Brexit vote in yesterday's Rolling Stone online by Matt Taibbi, an American political commentator who is massively anti-Trump and pro-Bernie Saunders, but above all a real democrat. He's shocked too, and concludes:

"It doesn't mean much to be against torture until the moment when you're most tempted to resort to it, or to have faith in voting until the result of a particular vote really bothers you. If you think there's ever such a thing as "too much democracy," you probably never believed in it in the first place."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... z4Csf7o3Ay

They won't get anywhere near what they were hoping for. I think a lot were expecting that on Friday 24th June, the boarders would be shut, no more immigrants and the NHS would receive £350m.

I always see the term "Taking back control" blah blah blah, it's still the same Tory government in charge who dictate who comes in and out of the country, just because we have left the EU doesn't mean all immigration will suddenly stop.

I'm not tarnishing all leave voters with the same brush but from what i've seen from the leave voters the main focus has been on immigration.

The Prime Minister had no choice but to shot the towel in his position was completely untenable, even with a narrow remain victory he'd have probably gone. It's his fault the referendum took place, it never should have he had absolutely no option.

As for a plan I'm not sure how you can, the shitstorm is unprecedented it's more like firefighting, nobody knows what will happen next how do you plan for that?

I agree with the majority of what you're saying, but there should of been at least some semblance of a plan. I realise its unprecedented, it's that uncertainty that is causing the current mess. But the government has access to far more information than any of us do and I think there should have been some strategy for the short term at least.




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I'm not against immigration as we do need skilled workers, what concerned me was the mass movement across Europe of who knows what. People have legitimate concerns, people who ain't racist.
We should help the Syrian ppl who through no fault of their own are now displaced.Economic refugees are another thing, can we accommodate such numbers.

Boris never had a plan, because he didn't think he'd win. He just wanted to damage Cameron enough to become PM. That's why he took so long to decide what to do at the start.

The plan now is obvious; wait months and allow a degree of instability to flourish, so as make the Norway option look like a good deal (even though free movement of people will remain). That way, a really shit option will appear attractive, and no-one who voted will get what they want. Those who 'want their country back' will still be subject to EU law, and those who wanted to remain will see the UK lose it's influence in the EU law making process. Then there'll be the messy consequence of the breakup of the UK.

And that's not me being unable to accept a democratic decision, just me noting (what I think) are the likely unintended (by most) consequences of that decision.

I'm starting to think Cameron actually wants us out sneakily. Ran a negative campaign rather than a positive one, he vote comes in ('the will of the people') within 24 hours most of main promises from Leave campaign are reneged upon by Leave leaders, pound crashes, stock market crashes, Scotland threatens to leave UK and London want autonomy, Britain loses its AAA credit rating ( to name but a few).

These things alone could have been something for him to come out and say something along the lines of game changing circumstances and the need for Parliament to use its constitutional rights/powers to decide if we should invoke Article 50. At the same time negotiating like hell behind closed doors for some sort of compromise position, you know win-win like grown ups.

Instead yesterday he just basically said 'the people have spoken' so we will leave when my successor goes ahead with Article 50. The gross negligence continues and Nichola Sturgeon has made her position very clear this afternoon.

Sadly I think The Fat Man is right and we will end up in a worse position finally than the one we left

Oh and Norway does well not because it is out of the EU as such it is just very oil rich and has a very progressive taxation and social welfare system and ideology. It's something Britain is a very long way from getting close to adopting

I think we're all concerned about the future, Mr Dalton, including me. I'm in a wait and see mode if you want a serious answer. There is a lot going on and there is a long road ahead. I do however believe that what's done is done and that we should all pull together to make the best of it that we can.
And yes I was just joining in the fun with my Q&A contribution because I believe that there is too much of a split developing and lightening the atmosphere may, and I mean may just help us all realise that pulling together is the best way out of this. Otherwise we might as well just have a civil war.

Wasn't BJ playing cricket when it all started going tits up?

Unadulterated tripe. When you and others catch up with me and realise the best way out of this doom and gloom is to stop wringing your collective hands whilst sitting in sackcloth and ashes, and join together to make the best of what the people of this country voted for, we will all be better off.

That's not doom and gloom. That's hoping we make the best of this. So then, Frank, what do you think will happen. And please, no platitudes around 'hard work' and 'pulling together'. Real life options, if you don't mind.

Are you serious? Really?

Please tell me how you think we will be better off, and tell me why I should join together with the likes of Farage and his racist party and friends?

Or are you being selective about which friends join together?

Wow I've just been unfortunate enough to catch up online with some of the videos and eye witness reports of people being abused and attacked and told they should be deported etc. Maybe it was all going on before and is not linked to the referendum but either way it's pretty sickening indictment of the underbelly of our society

No, we've been told on this thread that we have to accept democracy and not question the motives of those who voted exit. Being concerned about the political culture in this country is just sour grapes.

Really? Is that the best you can say? A few score nut jobs are being twats and that blackens the motivation of "those who voted exit." All 17.4 million of us?

Shame on you.

So why did you vote leave? What are you expecting to happen?

Who do you want to lead the country? Which Party?

First of all, I have always thought that the exit side had a good chance of winning. and I think the fact that the remain campaign were so sure of winning contributed to their downfall.
We appear to be leaderless, yes we do. The blame for that is right at Cameron's door. When he was asked what he would do if exit won he rambled on about the fact that he promised a referendum in his manifesto and he delivered on that promise. He then went on to say that he would accept the outcome and if that outcome was exit he would immediately trigger article 50 and do his very best to achieve the best possible result for Britain. So there was a plan to avoid us being rudderless. Whether there was a strategy, I personally don't know. I don't think Cameron, for one minute, believed he would eventually have to fulfil his promise because he firmly believed a remain vote would win the day. So when he backed off his promise and resigned he created additional, unwanted turmoil and made us leaderless.
We were then left with finding another rudder. We are doing that using the well worn process available to the Tory party and it will take time, around three months. I think Cameron believes that will give us time to get the best possible solution. It will give time for all the emotion and knee jerking to wane a little and allow all the heads to get together, both here and in the EU to achieve the best way forward for us and the EU. I think informal talks will be held, on a sounding out basis, deals will be formed in the so called "smoked filled rooms" and "corridors of power". Countries like Germany don't want to lose their trade with us. We are Germany's third largest customer, they don't want that to be jeopardised. At the moment there is recrimination and witch hunting going on, even on this forum, and that will achieve very little.
I am firm in my belief that the country needs to unite and I also believe everyone in it has got to talk in a positive manner, including Sturgeon, to prevent anybody making hay out of a volatile situation. Pouring oil on what are really troubled waters is not the answer.
Will we do it? Can we do it? I don't know. What I do know is we'll achieve nothing unless we pull together and put aside our differences.
Sorry for my pulling together thoughts and hopes but that is what I believe in and your dislike of them is not a good enough reason to abandon them.
It is the only way forward.
There is no alternative, unless the clock is wound back.

Yes I'm serious. What do you think we'll achieve by all this blame mongering, back biting and witch hunting.
All of us together means what it says, unless you want a civil war with winner takes all.

I will not, and never will, give any credibility to anyone with racist undertones. If that means we have a civil war, then bring it on. I might not have many principles, but that is one I hold dear. If any racist party has any say, or influence, I will march against it.

If it leaves the country unstable, then I would rather we have had that, rather than letting luntaics like Farage loose in the Asylum.

There is nothing democratic about racism.

I think the main issue that needs addressing is a plan for what we, as the UK, do next. I as an individual can do very fucking little but in a democracy I cede that power to my MP - a fucking no-mark SNP type currently. The shitstorm that is happening now, and will continue to happen I think, is because no-one has fucking planned ahead. Some companies made provision - stuck some capital aside just in case - but HM government is a rudderless ship. IMO many of those who voted no did so with the belief that their elected representatives and the civil service knew what they are doing and it would all be grand. We all know politicians lie, thats not the point. The point is we all assumed that someone, those in power and control, knew what to do. What we are seeing - lack of confidence, companies planning to relocate, massive market fluctuations - is companies realising that there is no plan.

I sincerely hope that a plan is sorted before all those who voted for free hospitals and no darkies realise there's no plan, no change and definitely no fucking hospitals.

This isnt me crying cos Remain lost. I dont want reruns, I havent signed any petitions. I am just genuinely concerned for the next few months and glad none of my immediate family are not full blown Anglo Saxons.

I believe all parties with racist agendas should be proscribed but it appears that no one has the guts to do that.
As I've said before, I don't like Farage and have never voted for his party. While he is classed as legitimate by the current system I would rather have the bastard where I can see him.

I am not sure what or whyCameron should have had a plan. If I had been hin I would have walked out immediately. And then just said, you all voted out, well there you go, get on with it.

There is only one thing that can happen now and thats a general election.

We will get a massive rise of support for UKIP, and other right wing parties. You can only hope that enough people gothe other way.

Thats the problem though, it what, or even who, Farage represents. If you ever look at footage of a UKIP rally, just look at the demographic of the people there. I wouldnt want any of them anywhere near power, and I certainly wouldnt get together with them.

Like I said, this country is in grave danger of going to the dogs. And we have an absolute shitstorm of a few months ahead.

Jeremy Corbyn just lost a confidence vote by 80% amongst labour MP's.

Yet the rank and file of the Labour Party love him, and there is hell on now.

Fuck knows where this is all going to end.

Which is why we have to stand together. Being the silent majority isn't good enough.

I am not sure how we stand together. Isnt it just a sound bite?

Only parliament can stand together, and if they did, they would, by a large majority say no to Brexit.

If all the parties had a vote amongst its own MP's, not one would for Brexit. Well apart from UKIP's one member, and maybe one party in Northern Ireland.

Cameron should've just told lie way back and not given the country this stupid referendum. .. as we all know politicians lie..

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What has happened since the referendum is mental.

Labour and the conservatives are in meltdown, Farage is going mental in Europe, the Scottish Parliamnet think the Westminster is an embarrassing joke, and Ireland could be on the brink of civil war.

And all because a few influencial people wanted out of the EU.

Perhaps I should have said no platitudes like hard work, pulling together and endless meetings. And you suggested my post was utter tripe? All EU nations will still have access to the UK market even if there was a full exit; we would, however, be able to add a tariff to any imports. More importantly, our exports would be subject to the standard EU tariffs. But you knew that, didn't you?

This is worth a read on the LRB Blog:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2016/06/27/sa ... e622259e81

As we have not yet conducted any negotiations I am not assuming anything, other than deals will be made, the details of which are as yet unknown.
If our tariffs equalled their tariffs and as we import more than we sell..................I'll leave you to figure out the rest.
You asked me for my opinion, you got it. I knew all you wanted was to retaliate to my utter tripe comment. Well you got your wish. I no longer wish to discuss it with you. Oh and if you cast your mind back you ranted and raved at me mentioning another member's real name. Well as you have not got my permission to use my name on here please refrain from doing it. Thank you.

Some classic comments on the one show now.

We showed the government that they need to listen to us now,and things will get better now that we have more control.