I think it's a lot more complex than that. Good politicians that engage with their constituents are few and far between, which is why the killing of Jo Cox was such a tragedy, because she was a good politician representing the town she grew up in.

Ordinary working class people in the North have been let down by Labour and Conservative governments alike. They become disengaged . They don't have jobs, their kids don't have jobs, or where they do its on zero hour contracts. You have a so called Labour government under Gordon Brown cutting the ten pence in the pound tax rate, which punished the lowest paid, but at the same time bailing out millionaire bankers.

Then came a Coalition government and its austerity measures which again hammered the poor while giving tax breaks to the rich.

If you cant find work and are constantly being told hundreds of thousands of immigrants are coming into the country you will feel drawn to the likes of UKIP and Britain First. Especially if Labour doesn't explain or engage.

Nobody is telling the poor and not particularly well educated, that half the immigration comes from outside the EU. Or that a lot of it is needed to keep the NHS running. Nobody tells them 37% of NHS staff are immigrants so rather than draining its resources they actually are the ones keeping the fucking thing running. The politicians wont tell you this because your next question is " Why don't we have enough doctors and nurses of our own ? "

And then the politicians would have to admit its because the pay and conditions are so shit people wont do the 4 or 5 years training to do a job which pays considerably less than you get for shuffling money about in the City, or kicking a ball about, or pissing around on television.

You also don't get The Daily Fucking Mail, pointing the finger at you when some right wing thug kills a woman in cold blood, saying he is some " loner with mental health problems " and making you the scapegoat because he once visited your surgery on a day when you probably saw 100 other people, and you didn't spot the sign he was about to kill someone. Which is a bit rich when the same paper employs a grade one C U N T like Richard Littlejohn to routinely demonise " loony left female politicians " and the most vulnerable people in society they represent.

What should have been an opportunity to have a sensible and deep debate on a whole host of issues, including immigration, has basically turned into the most vulgar, depressing, and downright embarrassing 6 weeks in British political history, and ended with a poor woman being stabbed and shot in the street, simply for having a different opinion to someone else.

Fuck knows how we have got to this point, but it needs to stop.

The people who voted "out" haven't got a clue how or will work but at least they've got rid of Cameron / stopped those bloody wogs/ took their country back .... delete as appropriate. ... Final word to the wise ..if something is working why totally duck it up for an unknown? ?

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Very very true.

Except it's not working.

and now the leavers are leading.

Where did these last few posters sneak in from?

Well thats wrong for starters. Its not all working, and not all working well.

Agree, as I've said many times, at least 90% of us are unqualified to make a decision because we don't understand the full complexity of the issues, or the practicalities of how a Brexit vote could possibly be implemented.

I never post on here when I'm on my travels (get thee behind me Tapatalk!) but do check in for a read from time to time.

The interesting thing about this and other recent EU threads on the Bunker is that it's not the 'swivel eyed little Englanders' making all the noise, it's the Remainders.

I'm voting Leave. I'm not voting 'for' Johnston or Farage. I haven't been influenced by the Mail or the Express - never pollute my brain by looking at them. I follow the debate on TV and through the Guardian online, which, needless to say, has been very pro-Remain.

I'm not voting to leave Europe, only the EU. That's the question on the ballot paper. The EU follows exactly the same austerity policies as Osborne-Cameron, but wreaks even more havoc among ordinary people's lives because of it's bloody-minded commitment to the Euro. How can the EU be protecting workers' rights when it has destroyed millions of jobs and is responsible for some of the lowest rates of economic growth on the planet?

Corbyn as good as admitted yesterday that his heart's not in the Remain campaign but he has to say it is for the sake of party unity. It's the Labour Right, neoliberals all, who are banging the drum for the EU, and they're not so different to Osborne-Cameron. After all, it was Blair who thought up the wheeze of keeping the UK competitive in the global market place by depressing wages for the low paid to drive up profits for the super rich.

Too bad that a by-product of the UK's current economic model is 1.7 million unemployed. Too bad that it costs more money to train and prepare the long term unemployed for work than it does to allow well motivated folk from the EU to come in and do low paid jobs, often on zero hours contracts. Too bad that it's cheaper to steal trained nurses from other countries than it is to train nurses here (even when you're charging your own student nurses for the privilege of learning to fulfill an essential role!).

Voting Remain isn't a vote for the status quo. The future of the EU is in the melting pot at the minute, not just here but in the other 27 EU countries. Personally I can't whip up any enthusiasm for voting for a 1 in 28 chance of influencing the future development of the EU.