Good effort Fat Man. The numbers quoted are so misleading, taking no account of our overall spending, which dwarfs those figures, takes no account of what we get back and ignores the fact that putting a modest amount into Europe in return generates vast amounts more in trade and creates a stable region that people from around the world want to invest in. All of that is irrelevant to some though because it's better to go on gut instinct on this one!

Not really a good effort. None of those facts above were answered with counter figures, just a few brief words, question marks and speculative personal thoughts.

For instance....
In the past four quarters the EU exported £84.935bn more goods to the UK than we did to it. The EU cannot afford to stop trading with us!

The biggest single factor behind the remain campaign is the ability to trade if we leave the EU dictatorship gravy train.

The above proves we will be able trade, no problem.

Did you read my comments? That's the point, they aren't facts. They are assertions, half-truths, deceptions and down right lies. The last point is a great example; tell me all you know about the EU law making process, and how that point is a 'fact'? Bet you can't.

Think about that 'fact'. How many other countries constitute the EU? In other words, what will each country lose in trade, compared to the whole loss to the UK? That £85bn over the other 27 EU states is £3.1bn per state. As a proportion of GDP, that £3.1bn is not going to get each individual country worried. Each individual country won't lose sleep over that change to their balance of payments.

The whole Leave campaign is being fuelled by self interest from a few Tories who know if the vote goes against Cameron he'll have to step down as Prime Minister.

It's the see how many impressionable people we can get to join the racists to get rid of Cameron campaign! It's absolutely ridiculous that this referendum is even taking place. Absolutely nobody is coming out of the debate with any credit.

Migration has driven wages down on Engineering and Construction Sites where Terms and Conditions which have been in place for years have been eroded. Many people from Hartlepool worked in London on the sites down there years ago, there is currently a building boom in London, does anyone know of any one working down there now ?
There has been protests outside various Engineering Sites, one on Teesside where the foreign workers are not being paid the recognised Nationally negotiated Rates of Pay and local Tradesman are unemployed.
I have no objection to Migrants working in the UK providing they are paid the recognised rates of pay and not being used as cheap labour and living in squalor.
The main reason the big institutions want to remain in the EU is for the availability of cheap foreign labour. Yes certain sectors need them but pay them the going rate.
At the end of the day no one really knows what will happen if we stay in or vote out but it will be decided by the 50 plus age group who to be honest won't be affected by the result of the Referendum, like wise the previous Elections, local and national, that's why this town is in the s***, voted Labour because I have always done they say, we still have the Clown Council.

Not sure if that makes any sense Jamie.

I work in London and most of the south east. Well Essex and Anglia. Hertfordshire and Northamptonshire.

If it wasnt for foreign workers I am absolutely sure there wouldnt be enough labour to build much.

There are massive skilled tradesmans gaps now in the economy, and because of this the few firms left, Bricklayers for example, now charge outragious rates. Now be honest now, how much do you think a bricklayer is worth? I bet its not £50 an hour that they can charge now. Joiners the same.

Its got that bad now many architects are now designing buildings with brick cladding as its cheaper and will get built.

Most of the bricklayers left prefer to work outside the city too. Its a fucked up industry.

But its not because of migrant workers. Its because of the large UK construction companies creating massive skills gaps since the mid 90's when they all decided to stop self delivering building work,and sub-letting everything to smaller cheaper companies.

This meant they saved on building costs in the short term, saved overheads on closing down their training schools for apprentices in the long term.

And they all did it.

I worked for AMEC in the 90's and they went from 300 directly employed tradesmen to 50 in two years.

I know there are still a few small firms traing apprentices but they are few and far between.

Blaming migrant labour for this is a lie.

For clarity, I didnt actually read your copy and paste, I just assumed it was utter bollox. If you could gurantee me its not bollox, I may read it.

But it seemed rather long to waste any of my very valuable time, especially as its not actually your words.

That's all very well, but what about the Tenerife trip ?????

I agree 100% what you say, apart from the last line, I am a tradesman and my rate has not increased in the last 5/6 years, my Utility Bills have increased way above the rate of inflation. They can get 2 migrants for the price of me and my rate is a quarter of a Brickie. The Living Wage is good money for them and when it goes up to £9.50 they will be earning mega bucks compared to what they could earn in Bulgaria, Rumania etc

I'm sure if you asked most on here, they'd say something similar on how their pay has stagnated. That's the sort of shit recovery you get with austerity.

I have no problem with anyone doing what all the people from the EU have done if I could move to another country in the EU and get a massively inflated wage for the same job to support my family I would. These people all pay tax as well into the coffers. Give me these people anyday over the benefit street crowd we see more and more in this country.

There's another point at work here; the cost of living is much higher than in many of the 'source' countries, so while migrants may earn more, they also pay more in living expenses.

Also, I suspect that the balance of migration is something to be factored in here. Young migrants pay taxes; I wonder how many pensioners have retired to the med who no longer make use of public services here.

And I wonder how many retirees to the Med are the sort of people who can afford to 'go private' with medical problems?

Young migrants from the EU do pay taxes, they are a hard working bunch in general and often well-educated - but will still take low paid jobs in the retail and hospitality sectors to get employment in this country. Jobs that less well educated young people among our 1.7 million unemployed can also do - though they need more training and supervision to do them as effectively, and that of course costs the employer money.

And many EU migrants also have young families, which of course does put pressure on housing, schools and medical care. It starts to be a circular argument - for example, we need more building workers from the EU to meet the demands of an expanding population - but they themselves add to the population and contribute to the demand.

I sat through the ITV non-debate last night, during which Farage claimed that we need to build a new house every 4 minutes to meet projected housing needs. The ITV fact checkers said that Farage had got it wrong - we 'only' need to build a new house every 7 or 8 minutes. Add in the new schools, hospitals, social care facilities etc and it's a great time to be in the construction industry - shame there are so few apprenticeships in this country because it's cheaper to import trained labour from the EU.

http://gu.com/p/4jgzh/sfb I know it's the Guardian but I reckon this lot don't have a clue ..

Especially that Kershaw ..fella.. he's done nothing since he sang about letting the Sun go down on him.