without wishing to be too morbid, the New York Times reporter at the scene said that a lot of the bodies were still intact and strapped into their seats. they would almost certainly have been killed by the change in pressure having been exposed to the atmosphere at 33,000 feet. hopefully it will have been mercifully quick, and hopefully the perpetrators' fate will be the exact opposite.

The thought of falling thousands of feet to your death must be a pretty awful way to go like. Can't imagine how awful it must be for the relatives to accept. You would just want to nuke the Russians. Having their own war is one thing but when it results in something like this.....

hopefully it will have been mercifully quick, and hopefully the perpetrators' fate will be the exact opposite.

I knew a guy who jumped from a plane without a parachute - on purpose. I wasn't close to him or anything but I knew him to kind of nod at - Falklands do's and that. He was cabbaged from Ireland and the Falklands and went loopy. Think people were demons etc.

One day when he was in a little private plane, he opened the door and out he went.

It's a touch worrying because I get the feeling that this could well escalate.

FWIW in free fall 90% of the terminal velocity is reached in about 11 seconds. If you fall from 30000 feet the last 29000 feet doesn't change much. You could realistically expect a survivor or two out of nearly 300 if gravity was the only factor.
But of course there are many other factors, most of which kill very quickly.

I always use that example when explaining the concept of oblique intention and 'virtual certainty'.

You can have a million to one the USA will send troops into Ukraine.

The Yanks hold all the aces here, all they need to do is tighten the screw sanctions wise ( which they are already doing ), -and with all the negative publicity I cant see many not supporting the move, and then wait for Putin to cave in. Russia deffo needs trade with and investment from the USA to prop up its beleaguered economy.


Putin is in a no win situation really, he either cuts off the rebels and faces humiliating defeat in Ukraine, or he carries on regardless and becomes even more isolated and loathed.

The Yanks would never get involved in a conflict with a nation that has nuclear weapons, but they have the financial clout to weaken foreign leaders to the point where their own people turn against them. Russia may supply a big chunk of Europe's oil and gas, but already the sanctions and conflict in Ukraine have seen a 20% drop in the stock market in Russia and a big jump in interest rates.

It wont take much more to tip their economy back into recession. I cant imagine Putin would stomach that- probably easier to make scapegoats of a few rebel leaders and get back round the negotiating table.

To be honest the gadge that fired the missile has probably already been taken to Moscow to get his head kicked in.

There is a video on YouTube somewhere of guy whose parachute fails, and you hear him realise he's done for and says all his good byes. Then when he hits the ground he's still alive and starts shouting for help.

Do you not blame the Russians though for being a tad worried that the Americans are attempting to surround them. Lets face it the yanks would of been behind the coup that led to the trouble in Ukraine anyway. The yanks want a Ukraine that sucks up to them not the russians hence the coup. What I find funny is the pro russian ukraines are called rebels, its the new government who are the rebels, they deposed a democratically elected government. If that had happened anywhere else the yanks would of been straight in saying it was bang out of order to overthrow a democratically elected government without an election. Yes the original democratically elected gov may of been corrupt, elitist c*nts, but now we have an unelected government who are corrupt, elitist c*nts, difference is though one was pro russian, one is anti russian/pro western. Its the same old story of Western capitalist domination thats been played out now since the fall of communism. The russians are being harassed and they are fighting back.

Are you saying if u pushed 300 people out a plane with no injuries etc from 30000 feet, 1 or 2 would survive?

Does anyone think that this is a massive co-incidence in the week that Russia was a part of the BRICS agreement to open an alternative to the IMF and World Bank??

with all due respect ronny, that's a load of blinkered fucking bollocks. and a load of shite too. those regions of ukraine have wanted to be part of russia for ages, regardless of who was in power. yanukovych was as corrupt as they come and was little more than putin's handpuppet, and the majority of ukrainians wanted shot of him which duly happened, despite russian funded troops slaughtering people exercising their democratic right to protest. try taking your red tinted sunglasses off and see what the situation is for real. russia's been leaning on ukraine for decades to turn its back on the west, and has used every trick in the book (and plenty that aren't) to ensure that ukraine is denied the chance to choose its own destiny. where's your proof that the ukrainian government is corrupt ? It's your mates in moscow that are the shitstirrers here, and that are ultimately responsiblef or the deaths of nearly 300 civilians. Or can you spin that another way as well ?

a few things

1) i don't read the sun
2) i'm not the apologist for putin and the russians - you're doing that and trying to justify their actions
3) the Ukraine may well be western funded/orientated, but they aren't the ones who used snipers to kill anti-yanukovych protestors
4) virtually the entire free world suspects pro-russian seperatists of carrying out the above atrocity with russian made and supplied armaments. are the netherlands a US stooge ? australia ? malaysia ? indonesia ?

If Russia was wiped off the face of the earth would anyone miss it ?

Humourless, sexist, racist, homophobic, in-bred knuckle draggers the majority of em. I'm no fan of the USA but lets face it if the Americans ever opened their borders to all comers half the population of the world would try and get in.

If Russia opened it's borders there would be one way traffic out of the shit-hole.

Yes the world votes with its feet, and for all the slagging the US gets, a lot of it justified they would be overrun if they opened up their borders

If America was wiped off the face of the earth would anyone miss it ?

Humourless, sexist, racist, homophobic, in-bred knuckle draggers the majority of em.

Last time I looked the President of the United States was black. That news may not have reached China yet like.

No fan of America, and there's clearly a lot of not nice people live there, but at least it has redeeming features.

Adjusted for balance. If you're black, the chances are you'll end up in jail. If you have an abortion, your face will probably appear on posters on trees, if you're gay and want to marry, you'll probably have to move to California or New York.

The KKK are currently undergoing a resurgence in the Southern states.

I'm sitting next to an American. He's lived and worked all over America.

He told me all this but it's fairly cast in stone.

One is no better than the other.

Yes I have heard of them, I read an interview with Edward Snowden at the weekend. That's because we have a free press, as they do in the USA, so people can say what they like without being run over by a tank.

Clearly the USA has redeeming features, you only have to look at the sheer volume of people trying to enter the country every year, legally and illegally, not a problem the Russians have one suspects. Or the films and television made in the USA that's heavily critical of its leaders, you cant even form a punk band in Russia without ending up in clink.

Like I said ( again ) not a fan of America, but its always struck me as a seriously less shit place than Russia.

Last time I checked Putin has been pretty much running the gaff for 14 years and still has another 4 years to go. Which is some achievement given he had done the 8 year maximum allowed in 2008.

Like Dibble says just take the World Cup off them , no right minded individual wanted them to get it in the first place. Much better to have it in a decent country like England.

Adjusted for balance. If you're black, the chances are you'll end up in jail. If you have an abortion, your face will probably appear on posters on trees, if you're gay and want to marry, you'll probably have to move to California or New York.

The KKK are currently undergoing a resurgence in the Southern states.

I'm sitting next to an American. He's lived and worked all over America.

He told me all this but it's fairly cast in stone.

One is no better than the other.

The yanks made a big mistake when they let the Red Indians in

I wouldn't for a minute choose living in the USA over the genuinely top countries in Scandanavia, or the UK for that matter, but Russia would probably be the last country in Europe I'd want to live in. It sounds fucking horrendous.