I left the Vic yesterday with a whole multitude of thoughts and feelings and I had plenty of time to mull them over on my way home. So whether your interested or I am gonna put them down here....

I had absolutely no optimism at all going into this season, I've felt pretty apathetic to it all summer but I've invested too much time, effort, emotion and money on Pools since 1984 to EVER turn my back on it. I renewed my Season Ticket probably out of habit more than anything with a little bit of blind hope thrown in but up until a week ago I expected nothing more than relegation this time around.

I was very much in the TURNER OUT brigade last season but my feelings of disdain toward him have lessened a fair bit over the last 10 days, not sure why completely but if nothing else you cannot question his commitment to Pools and probably his feelings toward the club. I must add though, that I was furiously swearing at the Radio at him last night whilst listening to his interview on Tees - completely disregarded the suggestion that subbing Boyd/Brown was the turning point in the game. Everyone saw it and everyone knows it.

So at Full Time yesterday I was fuming that we'd given away a 2 goal lead, really really disappointed by it, but I'm sure it will happen again. At the same time I took an awful lot of heart from our first half performance - I didn't expect us to play like that but the desire, commitment and effort put in was fantastic to see. We played some lovely football at times too. It was everything that was missing last season.

The substitution of both Brown and Boyd at the same time for me was stupid. Not sure who ultimately called that but for me it knocked any fluency out of us up front. Brown should have been pulled at half time, clearly struggling whether it be physically, mentally or both. Boyd is Boyd. Can look uninterested and unfit at times but at least he knows where the goal is. Toward the end yesterday he might have snatched one of the chances we had. Now Turner has said that we won't get 90 minutes out of either of them - does he mean ever again or in the short term? Either way Boyd is the best Forward we have at the club and Brown has as all the talent but is clearly struggling.

The worst feeling on the day though was the attendance. When he announced 2800 I was gutted, a bit shocked and extremely angry at the people of Hartlepool. Within 30 minutes of getting into town yesterday I saw 2 Mackem tops, 1 Newcastle top, Liverpool and even fookin LA Galaxy. LA Galaxy??!!!?? WTF?? What is wrong with the people of Hartlepool. We have a professional football club in League One FFS. See the £50 that has been spent on that shirt of a team you have never seen live or have ANY actual real affinity with, you could have gone to a live football match on your doorstep a few times. You'd probably save a few quid by going to the game instead of spending all afternoon in a pub buying overpriced lager.

Admittedly the last 2 years have been difficult watching Pools but for christs sake this is YOUR TOWN and YOUR FOOTBALL CLUB. Your not a Mackem, Geordie, Scouser, Manc and your certainly not from Los fookin Angeles. I really worry about the future of our club with the support dwindling the way it is. Wasn't too long ago that we were averaging 4500 - 5000 at home. Have that many people really lost interest? Is that 2800 the real hardcore or could even that drop if things go wrong this season?

Hodcrofts programme notes. He mocked the Sunday Sun and Mail for the story's of a takeover or a cash injection. Moaned about his staff being unsettled. All he had to do was make an official statement on the stories and deny it if none of it was true. He let it rumble on and on and said nothing at all, as has become common practice for IOR. Tell your paying customers nothing and expect them to tow the party line. Thank you sincerely for the last 10 years Ken, but please stop treating us like idiots.

So at the moment I am a little optimistic that if the Pools in the first half can turn up more often than not then we could be OK. If they don't then it could be a long season. What worries me is the number of people bothering to go along and support the lads. The stuff about not going until Turner is gone is pathetic. Grow up and accept it. Are Pools your team or not? They will always be mine whether we are in League One, Two or the Northern District Dominoes League. Managers, owner and players will come and go but I'll still be there.

Christ, even I am bored now.....cheers if u stuck with this. I feel better now anyway.

POOLIE TIL I DIE

A first class post Sir!

What can you do to get the younger kids into the ground, after all they are the supporters of tomorrow. Well I suppose first of all you have to make it something that appeals to them, something that makes them want to go. Even if they have an affinity with the Chelsea/Man U's they will still come and watch Pools if they think a) other kids are going to be there too, and b) theres something there that makes the experience enjoyable, or it's trendy/popular to attend, enough to prize them away from that gaming/laptop/computer culture.

Maybe if we had McDonalds/Burger Kings in the ground, and big screens behind the stands showing Ben Stiller/Will Ferrell clips before and at half time to create an interest........ I dont know, but anything to attract them in as the generation above them seem apathetic as to whether the town has a League team or not.

You've got to get them addicted young. My 3 lads all started going regularly around the ages 8 to 10, the atmosphere and excitement of a live match was something they had never experienced before. They were all hooked, and had discovered their team for life, like I had done way back in the 60's.

Excellent stuff Aber

Well said that man.

About the apathy:

This town is always going to be a negative one, too much self deprication its almost a cultural thing bread into us, everything a Hartlepudlian looks at is not quite good enough for them. Lots of people ask me about pools but when I ask why they don't go they say they don't really like the football, that they would rather watch a prem side, or that they can never be bothered. Those that would rather watch a prem side rarely do. I have some good mates that are magpie fans but get to 2/3 games a season maximum, even when offered freebies they will simply not come along to watch pools as if watching lower league football is a punishment for them. To counter that I also know a Makem season ticket holder who goes to the vic everytime pools are at home when they have no game.

The other problem is one only parents can solve, punishment beatings or a ban from any form of non HUFC football content should be sufficient. Why do kids and then the adults they become think it is acceptable to support 2 teams? I often get asked who I support, when I answer Hartlepool the retort is so which proper team do you support? Now last time I checked our team were full time professionals playing with only 1 division between them and the 'Best' or 'Richest' league in the world, thats not too shabby in the grand scheme of things. Or has Sky and the Premier League Brainwashed these imbecilles so much that anyone is now expected to have a favourite big 4 team and then a team they watch? (Unless your a barcode fan cos apparently they are loyal, or dumb inbreds that know no better).

About the match:

I think they flagged a little before the subs but in no world was Yantoro ever going to be able to get a third goal playing up front alone when chasing the ball toward 2 men much bigger and stronger than him. We seemed to go from playing a strong 4-3-3 type set up with a very well rounded attack (if it was 4-5-1 I don't care that I am wrong the 1st half was very positive) to a deep 4-5-1 with the 1 isolated more than supported.

Even if Behan had came on instead of McSweeney he might have stood some chance of holding the ball to lay off to Yantoro rather than watch him get muscled out everytime. Even an unfit Boyd staying forward would have been a better option with a quick fella running up in support.

at the end of the day pools are in the entertainment business and need to deliver a product for people to want to spend their hard earned money on. There is a hard core who will turn because pools are their team and will follow them whatever happens. It has been proven over the last ten years there is a desire to see pools do well and people will come. but, they will not blindly follow a team who have played badly for two seasons.

Top post Aberdeen.

The problem with attracting the young supporters, is nothing to do with the way Pools play/the match experience or lack of any sort of entertainment at half time it's down to the old generation.

The simple fact is that those plastic premiership fans of Man U/ Chelsea/ Liverpool etc, bring their young ones up to follow their "so called team".

There's even a car parked in my street with a "Young red devil aboard", WTF. So some kid grows up thinking that Man U is his team, so he sits and watches them in his house with his dad.

I brought my son up as a Poolie, he's now 28 and when home he attends the games. He used to say to me regularly when we were losing that it was all my fault that he was stood their having a miserable time.(he sat on the rink end wall when he was about 3 for his first game, carried over the turnstile, even one of the lads I brought up as my step son attends games)

So in reply , yes at the moment we're down to the die hards, because even free admission if you attend with a child wont attract those people. They would come out with the same old

"they don't come to see me when I'm bad" or

"I would close the curtains if they were playing in my back garden"

Sad but true.

There are probably many Poolies in the town who don't/can't attend for many reasons, finance/ family commitments so I would knock ALL non attending fans, but like you it's the team I support not the manager.

Including joint managers and caretaker managers I've lasted longer than 25 managers.(thanks to in the mad crowd for that) And something like 6 chairmen/ owners.

Other's can say the same problem is they getting fewer and fewer and us old ones now need to get on to our sons/daughters to have Pool supporters (sorry children)

I just think that Hartlepool is not what you'd call a 'football town'...the locals really couldn't give a shit whether or not they have a league football club. In terms of the population of Hartlepool, there's not many
football fans among them. Cos wearing a replica shirt of a random football club and watching them on the telly down the pub, doesn't make you a football fan. It makes you a c**t.

I think you should apologise for that. The last time I checked a c**t had a use, a plastic premiership fan doesn't.

I moved to Hartlepool in 2003 and had been a Man U supporter all my life and yes I went to games and yes I lived in Manchester, however I started going to pools as I figured support your local team etc and I loved it after the first game, being close to the pitch, the atmosphere( was good then) and the banter which I didn`t experience previously, well atmosphere apart obviously!

I have always sat in the millhouse stand and get animated along with the old chaps in their 70`s who have supported the team all their lives, what sticks in the throat is the 30 ish age group with their young uns who slag off a bad pass or failed attempt at goal in a way which encourages others to follow the sheep and after 1 game Haslam was gettin the " howay yer lame twunt" etc!

I went to Cardiff and had a brilliant day apart from the result, brought the shirt etc, had a son 2 years ago and kitted him out and will take him next year when he can grasp a bit, he was born here and with the right direction should be a poolie.

I`m a convert from the overpaid, overpriced league and would go to a pools game where I pay rather than a freebie to Old Traff, pity the locals go the other way eh!!

I know a couple of people like you Monkeybutt, but then I suppose you are probably more a football fan like some here and if you went to live in Southend would quite possibly start going there cos they are your local side.

Its the ones who think being a footy fan is watching Sky and owning a shirt that are the problem.

There is a lot of sense in why you have made the change. I can't think of any valid reason why someone from Hartlepool would say they were a Man U fan, but I am biased of course.

Well I lived in Caernarfon and didn`t go there, but I get your drift, it may be my age but I`ll not move now so your stuck with me boyo!

It`s the keeping up with the Joneses syndrome, which team do you support etc, my next door neighbour has a Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Barcs top flyin on the washin line together!!!
He also goes to Pools because his granda buys him a season ticket

When they were a lot younger our lads wore at various times Aston Villa, Birmingham, Wolves, Hull, Man United and Liverpool shirts. But only because the other half got them for next to nothing from local Charity shops. And they were strictly for wearing while having a kick about in John Whitehead Park, trying to beat their Dad in goal.

But why do other clubs with a smaller population than Hartlepool attract much better crowds. I still can't figure that out, maybe I'd have to live there to find out.

I know a Leeds fan who lives here,he goes to a lot of home games.
On the train back from Brentford we were all having a great time on the train happy that we had secured our league 1 status, this lad got on having been to Leeds and seen them get promoted.
He was the only Leeds fan on the train and while we were having such a great time he was sat there miserable as though they had just been relegated.
He went home when we got off the train, we went down the town and got pissed and celebrated.
The great thing about going to pools is you can meet your mates before the game and talk about the team we might play and then after the game talk about the team and tactics we should have played.
Be it the mill house, the grand hotel or wherever,you'll always find poolies.
That's what supporting your local team is about and do you know what, it's foooking great.
So all you plastic supporters and all those staying away because of chris turner can foook right off.

surely no one doesnt go to the games because chis turner is manager?

even when were getting beat and playing poor i always want to be there for my sins because you kind of feel its when you need to be there the most, there supporting your team to turn it around, no matter how hard it is, although yes ill turn up and the whinge for days after about how bad it was, but then we go back the week after, dont we?

i think the club should interact with the fans more, find out why people aren't renewing season tickets, why people aren't wanting to come back,

the premiership seems to be even more glamorous than its ever been thanks to sky's coverage and billionaire owners, so naturally more than ever it seems young teens are watching more footage of man u and chelsea etc, and it seems watching man u play once every couple of weeks on tv and wearing a rooney t shirt constitutes as 'supporting' man u. just a shame these people dont realise theres a world outside the premiership right on their doorstep and whilst it might not be glamourous, supporting hartlepool is one of the best things in my life, and it should be theres.

hopefully if we win against wigan it will pick up more publicity and help attendances.

Ken couldn't even be arsed to come out and publically deny the rumours that were damaging his staffs morale and ruining the clubs chances. Actually coming out and contacting a fan even using the media seems so far beyond the club its like we all live in a far off foreign land.

Maybe that is one reason people are not interested? It is easy to find out what is happening anywhere in the football league and especially with the prem clubs. But most of us live within 5 miles of the ground, read the local press, and lots of people know employees of the club. But actually try getting any concrete facts on the club from its owners is impossible, now I am sure they have their reasons but is there really any need for the constant wall of silence and lack of communication on events from within the club?

In short, no.

As an exile I get to see only a handful of away games a season so I can't comment about the feeling in the town.

However, I have bought tickets from the ticket office, shirts from the club shop, won club auctions on e-bay and I do own a few shares in the club. I've never had any marketing from the club, I don't receive any e-mails or newsletters from the club. In this day and age you have to compete with other entertainment outlets that want your hard earned cash. Once the club slips below the horizon you can't expect everyone to feverishly check the official site (good as it is for the committed) or fan message boards. The club needs to be more pro-active in keeping the uncommitted up to date, giving them 'special offers', trying to get them to attend more regularly and trying to win back the supporters that no longer go. It doesn't appear that the club have undertaken any market research into why customers no long value their product. If you change energy/telephone/satellite supplier you will get regular phone calls and offers trying to win you back. If you don't go to Pools they don't seem to care.

So what can the club do

1. create a database of e-mail addresses of supporters and keep them informed of exciting news via a weekly/monthly newsletter
2. drop the veil of secrecy and start talking to and valuing supporters
3. try some creative marketing
4. make it easy for the fans to deal with the club
5. create a better relationship with the local papers so there are more column inches about pools than the boro
6. try and create a better atmosphere at the ground
7. be positive - we're going to have a real go at the big clubs this season
7. play good football and win

So, supporting your local team is really about your mates, and people who 'aren't going because of CT' are really rejecting you and your mates?
I think this is at the root of why a lot of people think 'not going' is being disloyal. They use football as a symbol for friendship (or community, or whatever)and then get upset when other people don't use the same symbol.

For a supposedly intelligent woman you haven't got a grasp of what I'm on about.
No wonder some people think it's a man only sport.
Bloody hippies :)

That's the problem, to much live football on tv nowadays. When I was growing up the only way to watch football on a regular basis was to support your local team and go to the games.

Between now and end of November Newcastle have 9 live games on tv.

I think the location of our town certainly plays a part in this.

The catchment area for fans isn't that big anyway and when you have 2 big premiership clubs in that area already and another who is pushing to get back to the premier league its always going to be difficult to draw new fans in.

On the other hand you have a town like Yeovil which has a smaller population than Hartlepool but has very little competition around it. As a result not only does it draw fans from Yeovil itself but a lot of people from the surrounding area. I'd probably put Carlisle in the same bracket. They, I would say, could reasonably expect to draw on support from all of Cumbria's remaning main population centres as they don't really have any competition (with the possible exception of Barrow).

The club clearly can do much more to win back the fans we have lost, as others have pointed out, but I think my post goes some way to answering your opening query there Lightning Tree.

This is a not very high level of debate is it? As far as I can see, I was paraphrasing what you said. I might have misunderstood of course.....so what did you say?

I'm sorry but if you can't read into that you'll never know.

I agree with all of that list. The relationship between club & fans has dissapeared again! This time last season, I thought it was going to get better. With them wanting opinions on Season Ticket prices / offers and Goal Music. Things like that.

I dont know why they choose to villify the press. Yes the press can be bad at times, But it can also be postively good too!

At the game on Saturday i ended up talking to a lad in the Town end. He was just asking about the club and when the next game was. He had moved up from Preston and just wanted to watch some football so had come along and at half time said he was enjoying it. He did mention that before the game he had tried to get a ticket and had been in the ticket office and when asking to buy a ticket was told he needed to register on our database. A guy behind him in the que had told him just to head to the turnstiles and pay on the gate which he did.

It makes you wonder though why they have this database. I know I'm on it and have been for years now but when i stopped getting my season ticket a few years back due to work i was never contacted by the club to be asked why i hadnt renewed. I can only imagine then that this database is there for safety reason etc so if needed they can try put names to faces if trouble occurs. Shame really as they must have thousands of names on it and dont use it to their advantage.

Anyways an encouraging start to the season and hopefully we can keep it up.

The database is a joke if not used in the way that you mentioned e.g. to ask why people havent renewed their season ticket or to remind them of potential games or special offers ran by the club.

Its a right faff on going into the ticket office and getting the question "are you on the database", going through all the rubbish that goes with it. Does anyone bother to go and buy a ticket there when you can just pay on the gate?

The argument that you need to be on the system when we play cup games, or a "big" side for saftey is also daft. When I lived in Liverpool and went to watch the Champions League matches I just walked up to the ticket office gave them my money and walked out, took all of about 2 mintues.

If you are on the database why is it a "faff on"?

Surely you just answer "yes" to the question and tell them your address?

It's not like you have to renew or update your details every season for fk's sake.

Fair enough but if I wasn't and was a new member to the club like the lad from Preston it would be, granted he just went to the turnstile but as everyone knows a database is only as good as the information put into it.

What I am saying is to get the most out of the system:
1) you try and get everyone on the database who buys a ticket (eg stop selling them at the gate) this could be a logisitcal nightmare.
2) utalise the information in the correct way, eg sending out mailers or emails informing people of updates and special offers at the club (eg the Young Pools members that was mentioned in another thread)
3) highlight the people who havent re-newed the season ticket and send them a feedback form to complete to establish why, increasing the ties with supporters and the club.
4) with reference to 1) trying to get as many people onto the system. When the season ticket renewels forms or other information is sent out to supporters already on the system, have a "introduce a friend" voucher that you can get a 10% off in the club shop (or a similar offer)

Ah yes.

That's much more constructive though.

Your previous post referring to things as a "joke" made me think I'd opened up another of those "club bashing" threads were people were just looking for things to moan about.

I was on about them not using it correctly, they have a resource that they could use very effectively to get offers and more people into things like the Young Poolies.

If they arnt going to do this then just scrap it all together and only have it for the season tickets. Why cause people (eg new customers / fans) to the ground chew by setting them up on the system without using the data.