A spectacular performance by Clegg, his best yet I suspect. He was head and shoulders above the other two.

Clegg won it by a country mile.

Cameron talked too much rubbish.

Brown and Cameron argued too much between themselves and Clegg was the one that had to stop it.

Opinions eh.

I thought that although Clegg had a couple of good moments he floundered too much. Brown was rubbish and should stop that false smile, he looks like he's offering sweets to kids. Cameron walked it for me like.

I don't think any of them stood out.
I think the majority of people see what they want to see, depending on who they want to win.

What is far more interesting is the coming together of Mr I and POK !!!!!!!!!!!!

Fair comment, incorrect but fair.

Well I'm all for improvement...........aren't we all.
I just can't see where the improvement is going to come from.
I want to see improvement in the economy, the health service, education, care for the elderly, job provision, MPs accountability, MPs concentrating on one job and not having dozens of directorships on top of that job, public funding for elections with a cap on the cost so that interested lobbyists can't buy knighthoods and influence, affordable housing.... etc etc.
For that we have to have a sound economy and therefore the ability to pay for what we want.
Who is the best party to provide that economy????????
I'm afraid the answer was not provided last night, which is why I maintain none of them stood out.
One of them wants more of the same and the other two want change, but it has got to be change for the better.

I still need convincing.

One of them needs to take control and burst forward, because the only people to benefit from a hung parliament are minority parties demanding recognition of their crackpot idealism. But if that is what the country votes for then that is what we'll get.

That's my biggest worry.

Crackpot minorities representing the jocks and the taffs who already get an unequally large share will bang the drum demanding they continue to benefit at our expense, and other nutjobs like the BNP, UKIP and Lib Dems might get a voice in how we deal with Europe or economic matters.

Is that after watching it through your blue tinted glasses then Mr R . I haven't seen any of them so have no idea who has come out on top.

Probably Mr F, but similarly anybody who thought that Clegg or Brown "won" that one must have Stevie Wonder's glasses on.

Personally I thought Cameron won it. However when it came to the final statements, there was 2 candidates trying to be positive about what they can do whereas Brown was making more of a point on being negative about the other 2 instead of being positive about himself.

Agreeing with Mr LoanStar on Brown.. He missed the important point about always finishing on a positive...

Personally I'd love the LibDems to get mainly because they are the true instruments of change the other two are just there for more of the same and quite frankly those sort of politics get us nowhere..

On Cameron .. The one answer I'd want from him is how he's going to fill this black hole .. I know how he'll do it and it won't be those at the middle to bottom end of the pay scale who'll see the benefit..

VAT should be increased rather than National Insurance, then everybody pays it which is the fairest way.

None of them have convinced me to vote for their parties.

The way I see it, the best we can hope for is to vote for the party that does the least damage; as opposed to the party who will benefit us. It's an unattractive proposition and quite depressing if you stop to think about it.

Now I'm convinced you're on a wind up... VAT is the most unfair tax ...FACT

In the job you're in Ripper I'd shittin myself if the (laver)tories get in.. they're not going to be doing many road improvements!

Personally I believe those who have more should pay more...

That would be a good start..

How about this keep the 50% rate above 150K and put rates up to 40% above 50K but abolish base rate tax below 10K giving more money to the people who need it ( Not forgetting that due to the NI con these people will still be paying a 7% level of income tax anyway!)
..
I know you could argue that this would also be the case with a VAT increase but its the fact that it will hit the"average" person rather more than a 1% increase in NI contributions
Also I think they should abolish these "University Fees" how can it be right that someone living in jockoland can go to uni without paying these fees? I thought we where the same country..

Free Education for all should be a right not a privilege

Including the pensioners.
Lets squeeze a bit more out of the people who have worked all their lives.

0 - 0 -0 draw I watched Fulham Roy Hodgson for PM !

0 - 0 -0 draw I watched Fulham Roy Hodgson for PM !

How the hell is VAT the most unfair tax? If you want to buy something you pay the tax, if you don't then you don't.

I was always told as a kid to work hard at school in order to get a better job, have more money etc, not work hard at school so that you can pay more taxes for the thick kids who have crap jobs or sit around on the dole all day.

Income tax as a whole concept is fundamentally flawed. The fairest tax introduced during my lifetime was the Poll Tax but all the whinging scruffs were up in arms and got rid of that as it meant that they actually had to pay a fair share for once.

Your knackers hadn't even dropped when the Poll Tax was brought in

I noticed that Cameron was in a classroom full of youngsters in a primary school the other day.
I wonder if he told them about the contribution they were going to make when he put the cost of their sweets up.

So lets increase the burden on pensioners and primary schoolkids.

After all very few of those two categories have jobs................... bloody scroungers eh.

The kids used to have jobs like going up chimneys etc............they could always bring that back

Don't expect any sympathy from Ripper, Mr Derwent, he's a typical 'what's in it for me' Conservative.

I don't mate.
I am just pointing out to the ordinary folk who are considering voting for the "fair" Tories what VAT increases will mean to their kids and the Grandparents of those kids.

There definitely could be somethnig in it for MrR when the tories get in REDUNDANCY due to the massive cut backs in government building programmes.. hopes he enjoys being one of the "Scruffy bastads on the Dole"


There are none so blind as those that will not see.. or as MrR favourite leader put it fall for " The Big Lie technique"




coincidentally this http://www.channel4.com/programmes/elec ... /episode-1

could make some interesting viewing later tonight

there's a few truths in that passage to be fair!!!

I remember when they scaremongered their way into power in 1979. It was Reds under the beds then.
We have no plans to increase VAT they said.
Within weeks of them getting into power they had an emergency budget'
Guess what ????????
Yep that's right...............VAT went up from 8% to 15%.
They didn't quite manage to double it.

Increasing VAT puts the cost up of just about everything PLUS the cost of transporting almost everything. That is a real tax on jobs.

Now somebody give me a logical argument that such a move won't cost jobs................cos it always has done in the past.

Mr Point- I'm not feeling totally secure about my employment, certainly no more than anybody else probably is, but I see absolutely no reason why it would be any less secure under a Conservative government. Labour are stalling on road building and the LibDems have said that they'll stop it all together. Fortunately road building isn't the only thing I can do and if I have to travel to find work I will. I'd work anywhere if I had to in order to provide for my family.

Mr Avenger- yet more useful input. I had to pay the Poll Tax when it was introduced and not even the evil Tories of the 90s made under 18s pay it.

Mr Billingham- it's not a case of "what's in it for me" but my first and biggest priority is my family and looking after my wife and child. If that comes across as selfish I make no apologies.

As for VAT I still reckon it's fairer than an NI rise. You pay VAT if you choose to buy stuff, NI is not so negotiable and also costs employers money and discourages them from employing people. The one thing that I would say regarding VAT is that it should only apply to "luxury items" and not to everyday essentials such as basic foods, heating, kids clothes etc. (it doesn't apply to some of this stuff at the moment by the way). Applying it to "essentials" is wrong and if it was up to me I'd knock the VAT off some stuff that it's on now and lump it up on stuff like TVs, cars, furniture, all the stuff that people don't NEED but just WANT.

I sort of agree with you there but the scary thing is that they put this on EVERYTHING as it is in all the scandinavian countries.. They use some of the money raised to offset the impact on the low paid / unemployed by raising their benefit levels.. As for jobs..oil is the answer.. well at least for our lifetime anyway..

I agree with the suggestions on VAT, but it is not you who controls it. Therefore to say what you would do is pretty irrelevant really.
The choice we have doesn't include your policies I'm afraid, so they don't come into it unfortunately.
Putting up VAT on the items it currently covers would put up the cost of living, the cost of producing and the cost of the utilities and therefore would inevitably cost jobs.

That sounds like horseshit I'm afraid.

Or are you saying that people shouldn't post a point of view on a messageboard because it's irrelevant?

Shall we delete every post which says which team they'd pick for Saturday? What substitutions they'd have made against Exeter? Who they think should be on the retained list for next season?

Also, your comments regards the cost of living, are you suggesting that raising other taxes such as NI will lead to people having more disposable income?

You are like Benny Button or something, your age changes all the time

Are you really 38?, because you would have to be to have paid the poll tax when it was introduced in 1990

Still at least you can get back to the good ole days if Cameron gets in with interest rates of 15%

Well I'm actually discussing what our politicians will do should they get elected and the consequences of a potential VAT increase.
Whereas your policies are commendable and I have agreed with them, in this context, they are irrelevant.

You are indirectly actually agreeing with my opinion on the unfairness of VAT insomuch that you are suggesting changes to the things that it covers BUT until you can convince the Tory party to follow your thinking ( which once again I agree with ) the only thing we can discuss is what THEY propose to do and not what YOU would like them to do.

I haven't mentioned the proposed NI increases or people's right or otherwise to discuss Pools team selections, but if you want to start a separate discussion on them I would be willing to discuss them with you.
My point is about VAT. I'm sticking to that point, just in case someone ( I wonder who) accuses me of changing the subject.

Finally I am not getting involved in calling other people's posts " horseshit" or responding in like manner. Sorry.

Ok, if you're going to be pedantic not necessarily the day it was introduced but whilst it was in force.

When was it abolished Clueso?

1993

It was the wankiest idea of a lot of wank to be fair

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Charge

Mayhaps the above will refresh your mind