MoD it must really boil your Piss, When his first main reason for not coming is cost and NOT Turner.. There.. There

so what your saying is (and i genuinely dont want you to think i'm slagging you off or owt) you will only come if we are playing really attractive football?

what about between 1984 and 2000? When we werent playing good attacking football?

MoD it must really boil your Piss, When his first main reason for not coming is cost and NOT Turner.. There.. There.

Its Turner really.

The thing is people are actually bragging at the fact that they are not going or dont plan to go to anymore games until either the manager is sacked or the football improves

Apparently Mr MOD once had a season ticket for a team that plays in black and white not too far from here.
And its not Darlo!![/quote]You are right Ralf i did but did the person who told you that tell you i had a pools season ticket as well.
Worked till 1-00 oclock every Saturday and could not travel so pools were away when newcastle were at home does this make me even less of a fan.
cheap shot Ralf would not of expected that from you.[/quote]

Hardly a cheap shot Kev, just a fact.
I cant understand how anyone can support another team rather than their own or even as well as their own.
Ok, so this was only when pools were away but to buy a season ticket for the barcodes!!!
I used to go to sunderland when I was 13/14 years old.
Not every home game, just the odd one when pools were away.
That was just to watch a top flight football match.
It was only about £3 to get in and a free ride on the train but I didn't subscribe to a season ticket.

I guess at £20 a match, I, and many of the others who aren't going, are saying that yes.

The difference between then and now (apart from it was much cheaper then) is we couldn't expect any better from the likes of Russell Doig and -god bless him - Steve Tupling - but they often tried 100% and played for the shirt - whereas now we know we have good quality players that are capable of the football we played early 2000's, but are stifled from playing it by inept tactics and instructions from the bench.

That's a big, big difference.

You are right Ralf i did but did the person who told you that tell you i had a pools season ticket as well.
Worked till 1-00 oclock every Saturday and could not travel so pools were away when newcastle were at home does this make me even less of a fan.
cheap shot Ralf would not of expected that from you.[/quote]

Hardly a cheap shot Kev, just a fact.
I cant understand how anyone can support another team rather than their own or even as well as their own.
Ok, so this was only when pools were away but to buy a season ticket for the barcodes!!!
I used to go to sunderland when I was 13/14 years old.
Not every home game, just the odd one when pools were away.
That was just to watch a top flight football match.
It was only about £3 to get in and a free ride on the train but I didn't subscribe to a season ticket.[/quote]Its alright Mate we are not all perfect.
Chip was born in yackerland and he turned his back on Shotton Comrades and Peterlee new town.

I think he's saying that we were playing to our potential before and up to whatever level we could. Now it seems like we could but don't.

When we were shite we accepted it as long at the fight from the players was there. The team we have showed that we can play attractive football but how often have we seen it at the Vic this season? Wallsall and Burnley?

Once this changes then the fans will come back, no one wants to spend their hard earned watching other people doing the minimum to earn their wages. We need a manager in to motivate the team to play to their highest potential every game, or as near to it as possible. If they don't then why should the fans pay to watch it?

Have wages increased in line with match day prices? I'm not sure.
All I know that we seem to be a one off.
I don't think there is one club in the whole of the football league who has seen a percentage drop as large as ours.
Obviously its upto you what you do with your cash but I cant buy into this its the managers fault so i'm not going.
Sorry. We're supposed to support Hartlepool United through thick and thin.
The towns club eh

ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON

Every team will have the odd game where they perform above their usual standards i.e Burnely.
What people cant seem to get to grips with is we have a very ordinary team because the players are only league1/2 standard.
We also only have these type of players because people are not coming through the turnstyles.
Its not foooking rocket science.
You name me any players apart from Brown and maybe Liddle who could get into a present championship side.
You name me any players bar Brown and Liddle and possibly Flinders who any of the top 6 in our division could be interested in.
Dont give me all this pools pay top wages.
At a guess i'd say we're in the bottom 8 of the wages league in league 1.
A new manager may bring some hope, optimism, possibly better tactics but he could also be worse.
You think thats not possible. Believe me it certainly is.

There's more to it than just league positions. It's how you get there that counts where attendances and money is concerned. If we were in the top 3, but playing in the same style and attitude, does that make it any more value for money? Our crowd would still be around 3,000.

If we were top 3... or even top half... and playing well, with players busting a gut and with style? Back in the 5,500-6000's.

Our players are not poor. You can't say Austin, Monkhouse, Brown, Flinders, Boyd, Liddle, even Humphries and Sweeney at their best are not capable of some amazing stuff. And yet they are nowhere near their best.

Why is this?

For me Humphries and Sweeney are not top 6 league 1 players and never will be.
Austin is a very good league 1 player as is Flinders as is Liddle.
Monkhouse is a good league 1 player as is Boyd
Brown could play in the championship provided he stays fit.
We hardly have clubs banging on our door offering huge sums for any of the team.
If we were getting 5000/6000 fans at home every week we'd be top 6.
If we weren't top 6 we'd have a new manager.

Maybe it is a bit rose-tinted. But it wasn't £20 a match, either was it (or the inflation-equivalent thereof).

You knew what you were getting for your £8, and it wasn't much of a blow to walk away a few quid down but a couple of hours well spent (for me, on the corner between the Rink End and Mill House) watching Pools.

Never felt robbed of my money. I do now and it's because of a combination of drab football but at a high cost.

You can't say if we had bigger attendances we'd be top 6!!! Look at 2006, we were still pulling in over 5,000 a match til the very end - and were relegated!

There's more to it than league positions, there's more to it than attendances.

It's all about people getting value for money - and here's the fact - it's NOT value for money right now, by any stretch of the imagination!

right im off to the club to ask once again why they stopped going im telling theres a few of them wont go because of turner and his brand of football FACT
EVEYONE IS ENTITLED TO THERE OPINION BUT I FOR ONE WONT EVER DESERT MY TEAM

Opinions of mine - and others like me - who haven't been in months are based on what those who - and this is a quote from a long, long standing season ticket holder "have to go 'cos I stupidly bought a season ticket and if I don't go it's not worth the grief from the other half" (i.e. I know a few people who feel pretty much forced to go who pass opinion), the extended highlights on Pools World, Radio Commentary, the posts on here. It's not first hand, but when everyone says the same thing then you form quite an informed opinion.

I'm not saying I won't go back til Turner's gone, either - I might overcome my (regrettable) apathy to get to the MK Dons game and see if anything has changed. I really hope it has.

But I'll be surprised if I walk out of the Vic thinking "wow, that was £20 well spent". And if I do, I'll be back for the Gillingham game. And if I walk out of the Vic thinking the same thing again, I'll tell me mates who will come with me next time. And before you know it, we'll be back at 5,000 again - because that's how it works. Let's hope that's what happens - but it's down to 12 people to make that happen. The manager, and the 11 on the pitch, so it's over to them, isn't it?

agree but as turner said in the rovers talk in he wanted to get back them fans with exciting football

yep but still love going

Me too.
I couldn't think of a saturday without pools

and that my dear friends is the problem.

Football was never about exciting football, it was about winning. If we happened to play nice football, it was a bonus. Now it seems people will only pay to watch good football.

Nowadays with the prices as they are, more and more people feel they need value for money. Not only do they expect a win every match, they expect performances a la Pools in 2003.

Can the club address this?

Can we afford the types of players needed to perform week in week out at the top of League 1?

What happens if we did and managed to get into the Championship, we would be nothing more than relegation strugglers, would the 'fans' piss off again as we arent winning regularly?

Would the club be better off getting relegated into league 2, and try being a team who constantly gets in the playoffs?

The players this season have gave their all in every match i have seen barring the Grimsby match where they played like it was a friendly.

Tactically we are naive but commitment can't be questioned.

I don't know where the club can go from here, but it appears the next few weeks and months are going pivotal for our future.

Stevetuplingsmullet makes some good points and some that I share.

Sadly superfan chipfireball decided to warrior his way in and start shooting down anyone who doesn't share his opinion as per.

Thank God we have had chip on here to point out that the current team are far better than the majority of players who played in the 80's and 90's. Obviously that means people should find the current team unbelievably exciting and want to spend every minute of their life tugging themselves off thinking about the next home game.

Wilsons last two home games:
Bristol Rovers- 3171
Yeovil- 3393.

An increase of around 6%.

Chip proven wrong!!

Doig cost £10,000 so yes ur probably correct.

Which games then smartarse?

I'll tell you to save you the bother. The only home televised game that I've missed was a league cup game against Notts Forest about 2001. It was a night game and I was working in Plymouth, and although I never missed a home Saturday game all that season doing an 800+ mile round trip for each of them I couldn't quite make it to the midweek matches.

You sat at home a few hundred yards from the ground when we played Bournemouth, by your own admission at the time because you didn't see the point in spending money to watch a match you could see for nowt.

So tell me about this disguise you think I was wearing...

That was in division 4 with players like Gordon Watson.
ffs :)

Who died and made chip fireball the decider of who is a fan and who isnt?

As if somebody would have to die for Mr Fireball to appoint himself to the role.

i thought that too, when i miss a match its all about the cost - simply cant afford it or cant justify having an empty fridge and going to the game instead.

On saturday I simply couldn't get there due to weather, I had a cheap ticket lined up too


but, when I have the money I go and usually enjoy myself, i like watching footy me. mind, If we did get in the championship imagine Chris Turner talking up every team week in week out - you think its bad now!

Halifax away? 1992ish? I was at Uni in Hull and couldn't get transport there and back on my own.

Bournemouth away? I wouldn't have gone whether it was on the telly or not.

Bristol City? When have we played them on the telly when I wasn't there?

PS. When did I stop going cos they made season tickets cheaper? I didn't buy a season ticket cos I disagreed with the pricing policy, yes, but I still went to the majority of home games that season and the ones that were missed were due to personal family or work reasons which superseded a football match.

Hang on a second mate, don't resort to the changing posts and rolling eyes trick yet.

I'm still waiting for your revelations about which televised home games I've missed apart from the one that I referred to above.

And since you've starting on about televised away games maybe you can put some bones onto that argument too rather than mentioning a match that I was at and then defaulting to the spurious "etc etc".

Nor have you enlightened us all as to the kind of disguise I may have been wearing.

Ta.

Are you in a bad mood today Ripper?

Anyone got any rope?

Not at all mate.

Just a little tired of folk making stuff up to try and justify their "argument" and then being unable to substantiate it when asked. It's a bit like a bloke who thinks that if he shouts the loudest then even if he's talking bolox he wins the argument cos everybody can here him, it becomes a little tedious.

Chips alright in real life, i dunno why he has to act like an arse on here.

So tell me about this disguise you think I was wearing...[/quote][/quote]


I hope it wasnt that disguise you had on when i seen you in the street with Thornley at Huddersfield because that was one scary mask you had on

I've been watching all of Pools home games (bar illness or odd holidays) for 12 years - and what is frustrating now (as it was in the relagtion season) is knowing that the players we have can play a much better style of football than they are. That comes down to the manager. He just seems to have no plan C (plan B being hoofball, which appears increasingly to be plan A). The Charlton game proved that. We more than matched them for 45 minutes - they make one tactical change, and our whole game falls apart.

There have been several games where I've wondered why I have a season ticket, whenI feel we are being short changed. Will I stop going to Pools next season? Probably not - I like my football, and it's my home town team, so I'll continue to give my support.

My belief is that IOR will stick with CT until the ground issue is resolved with the council. If it remains as it is, staying in this division is the requirement. If IOR do get the ground, then they may (provided the town steps up) feel they need a new manager to progress things further.

I'm sure the hierarchy of Pools will listen to what they consider to be sensible suggestions.

The problem we have as fans is that we're bickering amongst ourselves before any suggestion has been sent to Pools for them to listen. What one person consider's a good suggestion other's may not but to simply "fight" amongst ourselves is defeating any possible idea's before they have had a chance to be discussed by either Pools or fan's on here or in a pub or at the games.

I have sent a suggestion in, it's not radical but it's a possibility.

We sell half season tickets now(whether money up front or on some sort of interest finance) where we charge the same price for the games that were charged for the original full season ticket, approx £13 to stand. Meaning a fan can get to the last 11 home games for £143.

On the same lines they sell "batches" of tickets (in case people have commitments that mean they can't attend all 11 remaining home fixtures ) on a sliding type of scale, i.e 10 tickets at £14 each and something like 5-9 tickets at £15 each.Now I consider that a possibility, but not knowing the exact financial position, Pools may deem it not workable, that is their prerogative. Some on here will also disagree, but to simply "shoot it down in flames" without coming up with an alternative is not going to help.

We need to be united at this time and back biting , name calling of other fans is in my opinion not the way forward.

ADG - "cartwheel signing"

i'd rather we got a midfielder who can put his foot on the ball than a gymnast

This thread is brilliant. One of the best threads I have seen on the bunker (barring Pooliekevs diahoreah chair one obviously)

I think what Steve Tuplings Mullet makes a very valid point here re value for money.

Another key issue is that our attitudes towards Pools have changed radically over the past 20 years or so.

Late 80's - the fans did not expect us to win many games. We were poor and there was little/no optimism around. The reason people went was because they CARED and people so wanted us to beat relegation again. It was like buying a ticket for the lottery. The chance of winning was remote but so important should it occur. Fans wanted to see us survive and wanted to be there should we somehow win a game.

The promotion season of 90/91 - extra fans started attending due to some great results and something different to play for (promotion and not relegation for once).

the really shitty years (mid to late 90's onwards) - We were dreadful during this period with dreadful players. I remember when we had the likes of tony canham,damian henderson, scott sloan that we all cheered when we got a throw in or set piece in the oppositions half of the pitch as it gave us chance to try and score a goal ffs. The spectators would still attend as they dont support pools out of some expectation to see a great team, they wanted us to beat the odds again and stay in the league. It was an acheivement and seen as 'success' during those times. Expectations were low so the supporters exprected relegation battles and our goal was survival.

2000+ The better years. Our expectations started to change. We started to see some 'football' and goals. relegation was not seen as a threat so we were playing for play off places and the outside chance of promotion. It was a welcome change and fans started to attend in larger numbers to see this amazing situation. Pools were winning games 5-1, 6-0 etc and we were getting used to it. Our expectations rose quite quickly in a short space of time. People attended to see great football and possibly promotion.

Since this time we have obviously had more highs than lows. Playing in league one and getting to the play offs was such a novelty at first and if most spectators are honest the initial goal was simply to stay in league 1. fans attended to see if this could happen (and it did).

Obviously we had the scotty 'blip' but it was only short term and the fans optimism remained.

Now we find oursleves in league one again having being used to having something to play for. Currently we sit 11th but as CT keepes telling us, we are punching above our weight and playing much better teams. the fans optimism wanes inevitably. Suddenly it feels as if something is missing. How can supporters get value for money spending £20 if there is nothing to play for? During the bad years the fans paid gate money as they were desperate to see us stay in the league - we had a goal to aim for. Now we are told that we dont really have any ambition so £20 does not seem good value for money - we dont seem to have anything to play for. If this is the case then the only thing which will make the £20 entrance fee seem reasonable (value for money again) would be decent football. Unfortunately this has fallen apart under CTs 2nd spell and is more reminiscent of the scotty 'blip'. We now have a situation where we are being told by the club not to expect anything and we are not entertaining the fans. We didnt always win games under Danny Wilson but we at least played some good stuff and the fans appreciated this.

Our expectations have changed and as a result our opinions as to what amounts to 'value for money' has had to change to. We can all see that we have some very good players but they are not being played the right way. If they were, then I think we would have an outside chance of scraping into the play-offs. How can the supporters see pools as good value for money when the players cant play to their potential while a defeatist loser like Chris Turner is in charge? We dont appear to have anythign to play for and are not playing good football? We have got spoilt over recent years and expect something positive in return for our money, not merely listening to our "Director of sport", manager or whatever saying how we have nothing to aim for and to expect defeat against other sides in the division.

It is not about 'money', it is about 'value for money' and there is a difference. We could all use our match day funds in more practical ways but Pools have provided good value over the years (for differing reasons over time, the joy of surviving relegation in the bad old days, the desire to see a club like pools get promotion during CT's first spell, the novelty of seeing us play league 1 opposition, the crazy realisation and goal that we may get into the championship)

Now we are used to playing in league 1 and the novelty has gone. We are clearly not aiming for promotion (CT has said this) and we are not to expected to compete against the better teams (CT has said this). This would not be quite so glum if we were playing good football to entertain the fans but we arent.

Pools are NOT good value for money these days and not worth £20 to sit in a (now) lifeless ground watching drab football with no ambition. The irony is that i bet most of us think our current squad is 'not bad' and that if played the right way would play some decent football. Unfortunately Turner seems to have gone backwards since his first stint and no amount of reserved optimism in our current players can overpower the deafeatist mentality that CT has cursed the club with.

I do think a change of manager (and yes, I appreciate that they dont grow on trees, but anybody worth their salt could get our current cquad playing good stuff - and im sure very few other potential managers would be so stupid as to quash any recent optimism in the manner which CT has done) would help greatly. The spirit within the club has gone ( this is not just down to CT, but also partly attributable to Scotty and Wilson). The club has made some poor managerial decisions lately and is now suffering the consequences.

The fans dont expect sucess, they want 'value for money' and they are not getting it. Had I not got a season ticket then I would probably not be attending these days. I missed the Oldham game as I had (and still have) a pretty bad cold and sore throat. And yes, i know that is gay as feck. In days gone by I would have attended regardless and it would have taken broken legs to keep me away. The spirit within the club these days depresses me and sure it is largely down to the 'manager'.

Oh my word, talking around the issue again.

At the risk of repeating myself, please can you list these "fair few games" that you refer to? Feel free to include home AND away games.

To help you I've already given two of the three that I can think of and reasons why I wasn't there. As a rule I wouldn't go as far as Bournemouth for a mid-season away game at the best of times although fair play to those who choose to. To help you a little more there was definitely a third televised away game that I wasn't at and maybe a fourth, although I'm only about 90% sure that the fourth one was actually on the telly.

For your info the fact that they were on the telly had no influence on my decision on whether to attend them or not.

I would be genuinely interested to see if there were any more than these, there may well be some that I've forgotten about, so if you have so much free time on your hands maybe you could put a list of all of Pools televised games on here and we could all say which ones we were at. At the same time maybe we could tell you why we missed the ones that we did in order that you could decree whether the reasons are acceptable or not?

And at the same time please remind me how much money from ticket sales at away league games goes into Pools coffers and is therefore of relevance to HUFC in their ideas for increasing home crowds?

Many thanks in advance.

Look. Let's face it. The attendences have dropped since our day trip to the Millenium Stadium.

The floaters will have thought what they have always thought. Pools always bottle it when the chance comes along.

That was our big chance and unfortunately we blew it.

Scott, Wilson and now Turner have all lived in the shadow of that big day and we will always struggle to get those fans back.

I agree with all of that Mr Fireball.

Totally agree about away matches I used to try to get to as many as i can but now just cant be bothered, althought probably going to norwich, I have even planned to go on a night out the day of the soton match so I am going to miss it something I wouldnt even have considered about 3 years ago.

but away matches arent the problem. Its the home ones that are.

Unfortunately for IOR, i think Dibbs & Chip are spot on, we need the coveted cartwheel signing.

in order to make money (or in our case, lose less money) we need to spend it.

It may only have to be a one season thing, but we need somebody who will make the stayaways sit up and take note.

Beardsley did that when he signed, now we need another.

ADG - "point not valid"

Of course it is - go and sign a bearsdley type signing for 3 months and then have to look for a replacement in the summer and look hard cos people will expect that person to be s*** hot.

or get a grafter who makes us win at home.

only one defeat in nine at home - why arent we pushing this? 'fortress' ??

Hey, that was my idea!

Watson retired through injury then signed for us a few years or so later.

Let's just sign Dean Ashton next summer, job done.