100% agree Bramstein. But I just can't grasp why anyone, who call themselves Pools supporters, get upset at the idea of us going on a winning run. Isn't that what we want?

I think its the, "things have to get worse before they get better" mentality. I can certainly understand that logic but don't feel it should apply to the current situation really. Turner is only a temporary solution afterall and the club should be looking for a permanent appointment.

I can't see us beating Millwall who, incidentally, also threw away a lead tonight. 2-0 up and ended up drawing 2-2 with Frankenclub. Southend aren't doing that well at the moment so maybe we'll pick up a point there but, again, I'm doubtful.

I didn't say you were a Bear of little brain....but if you insist.
You appear to have your head in the clouds regarding Turner and what he is actually going to achieve. You have latched on to a suggestion that we critics of Turner would change our minds if he strung 2 or 3 wins together. If you deny that then welcome to the fold, and I will withdraw the in the clouds suggestion.
I am willing to bet that Turner won't string 2 or 3 wins together this side of February. I would welcome odds on that suggestion if you are keen.

Time for Mr Turner to depart. Again. And please dont go back upstairs. Please.

My mistake it appears Millwall won 3-2. Groovy

Millwall won 3-2.
Of course Turner is temporary, but how long is Temporary???? He is a fortnight short of twelve months in the job, with no sign of a permanent appointment.
We are heading one way with this guy in charge.
I would love it, just love it if he proved me wrong. I just can't see it and, going by your suggestions, I dont think you are too confident either.

So just the usual saddoes calling for his head.

Rest assured he can sleep safe tonight then.

A consistent line up is the key to this season, and for that we need fit players and/or like for like substitutes.

I have no concerns despite three successive defeats - other than we are only one point of fourth bottom.

Can you tell me who has stated that he or she would be upset if Pools strung a few wins together. Personally I would love it.
Why you have to make things up is something I can't grasp. That's a perfect " head in the clouds example"

That was my own description of myself, as I didn't understand the implication of you're "head in the clouds" statement.
You are the one who has got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Tigro was saying that Turner will probably go on a short winning streak to save his job. I am saying, if Turner does manage that, why is it a bad thing. As Mr Bramstein has said, the people who want Turner out are probably working on the "things have to get worse before they get better" philosophy. I am not expecting anything of Turner, but while he is in charge, I am hoping we will get positive results. I too would like a better manager in charge, who could motivate what appears to be a better squad of players, but I thought we had that when Danny Wilson came in. Perhaps the managership of our 'little' club is what Brian Clough once describe it, the hardest job in football, and we are doomed to perpetual failure.

You, therefore, think he's doing OK then?

Derwent, no I'm not confident mate. Especially now Brown is out till January. I'd probably persist with Bjornsson upfront for a bit seeing as though he's been given a chance and scored. It wouldn't at all surprise me though if he's on the bench for Saturday's game.

Look mate, if you are happy with Turner in charge then that is your prerogative.
Why are people who disagree have to be called saddoes????
Nothing would please me more than to see Pools flourish under Turner, or any other manager. I have reservations however, which I am prepared to voice on here, as have others. Does that entitle you to call people saddoes??????

I haven't got hold of the wrong end of the stick at all............you have said that you can't grasp Pools supporters not wanting us to string two or three wins together.
Nobody has said that.
So why do you suggest that people have said that?????

I think we are saying the same things basically, but in a different way.
My position is fundamentally clear..........I have no confidence in Turner and, to be fair, I have been saying this for months now.

If you can't grasp what I have already written that is your problem, goodnight!!

of course i am entitled to call people saddoes- those demanding that a manager of a football team be sacked due to a bad run and their impression of poor form. What experience/professional qualifications do you have to be able to assess the capability of one manager from another. I think it is sad that grown men (assumption) are demanding with alarming regularity that someone who is in charge of a team be dismissed. Do you insist that people in shops or companies who do you a disservice or give you a bad time are dismissed from their jobs?

I can understand the frustration with the results and the performances but there are mitigating factors such as the injuries and the quality of opposition that is in this league this season. It's a game and it's interesting and enjoyable to watch but I don't beat myself up if we lose, demand the head of alfredo garcia etc. I get excited when we score and win, and will be gutted if we get relegated but i'm a realist and see that it ain't perfect but it can get better.

on another note, whilst i think darlo's plight is funny, at the same time i'd rather they stayed up.

Almost agreeing there, except I think Darlo's plight is funny, and I do want them to go down, but mainly because of people like Sussex and Hopps, or whatever his latest name is.

Turner has made a lot of poor decisions that have put the pressure on himself and the team. His popularity is dipping by the week due to his seemingly silly decisions and silly comments.

Times are tough in this league and we are one of the smaller clubs but we (Pools) have developed an excuse mentality and this sort of mentality coupled with some inept performances on the field is turning fans off. The reason people warmed to previous managers is because of the 'never say die' only XI v XI attitude. I dread to think what the home crowd will be on Saturday, most people have already made up their mind and personally I no longer sit on the fence on this one, some people are dreading home games FFS.

I am not going to go over the top and say that CT is going to take us down but I think performances and results on the whole kind of show us so far that Chris isn't taking us in the right direction and he isn't the man for the long term. You kind of get the impression that the god results we have had are almost in spite of Turner rather than because of him.....

sorry but I can't agree with folks who support CT. He is a proven failure as a manager and he is going to fail here as well. If IOR and Pools fans are happy that we are headed to L2 then fair enough, but I'm sorry but that's where we're heading. Carlisle were streets ahead of us tonight and should have hammered us on their chances. We are poor and getting worse. I blame the manager and I stand by that.

It's the first time I've said on here but I do think we need someone else in.

I don't believe Turner can motivate to the desired level, and his decisions and tactics are uninspiring to put it kindly.

We've consistently failed to impress despite putting together one of the strongest (and I guess most expensive) squads we've ever had. We HAVE impressed in this division with comparable squads.

He's still the 'director of sport' isn't he? That's just ridiculous, where's the manager?

That's the bit I'm unable to grasp, my friend.
So if you answer my perfectly legitimate response to your suggestion that Pools fans get upset at the idea of Pools going on a winning run, maybe I will grasp what you are trying to say. HTH
Just show me where Pools fans say that and I'll agree with you.

is it that time of the month derwent? Chill out man, its the festive season!

Aye, mate. Usually when a shadow appears at a certain slant over the Vic !!!!!!!!!!!

Grumpy bugger that's me.

Bah Humbug !!!!!!!!!!

i normally hate where i stand as in winter the low sun normally blinds me......this season that might be a good thing......

Agree with Parmo its all about Turners past form as a manager and its very poor and if the penny did not drop last season when he took over it is never going to drop.

he has to go now or we will be in trouble come easter time even if we pick points in next 3 games its papering over cracks and i mean he has to leave the club not back upstairs

I know its easily done but that bit confused me! It appears that you are saying that fans are not entitled to call for a manager to be sacked based on bad results as they are not qualified to do so

So should a manager only be sacked for 'off the field' mistakes, sleeping with chairmens daughters etc?

I dont feel supporters need qualifications to have an opinion that a manager is not capable of managing a fart nevermind a football team. Turners lack of management ability is there for all to see, you dont need a football related degree to come to such a conclusion surely

The inferrence is there in tigro's quote, that winning 2 or 3 games in a row will help to keep Turner in a job; and therefore he would prefer us not to win those games, to get the aforesaid Director of Sport out of the Caretaker Managers position. Simple really.

And also Mr D, just in case you haven't also grasped that I'm not pleased with CT in charge, then I will be happier than a dog with two dicks, if Uncle Ken was to announce a new manager in the near future, whoever he might be.

I can see what tigro appears to have said. CT keeps grinding out key results just as the pressure on him is mounting. While such points are indeed invaluable, in the long term him staying in charge is not going to do us any good. If we are going to lose so many games this season that we may get relegated then I would sooner we lost these games NOW under CT and then act to replace him at a later stage when a new manager would have less time to put things right. I feel it would be a huge mistake for Ken to have confidence in Ct based upon an ocasional 3 points and assuming that he can turn things round. History suggests otherwise.

If we had the choice of

(a) we have CT in charge the rest of the season OR
(b) we lose a handful of games now and ken decides to send CT back upstairs thus allowing a new manager time to stamp his authority on the team


...which would you choose?

Im fairly sure option (a) will result in relegation (or a very close escape at the very least) therefore I would think in the long term some bad results now to get us a half decent manager in would be a preferred choice. Obviously if our results alone are not going to have any bearing on CT getting the boot (Ken does not seem to sack managers for bad results does he!) then we just have to keep preying for the occasional good performance under CT to pick up the necessary points.

Its not exactly going to have supporters flocking to the ground though is it?

Be honest, is anyone looking forward to matches right now? Its almost a chore going to pools these days and I cant beleive I feel like that. We need a change desperately, surely 99% of us can see this.

Ah, so your argument is based on assumption. Now we are getting somewhere
Tigro didn't actually say he would get upset if Pools went on a winning run, he said it would take us back to square one. You are putting your own spin on it.
On top of that he is only one fan....not fans.
I also think that if Turner won the next two or three games, it would help keep him in a job, but that doesn't mean I actually want Pools to lose those games, not in a million years, and nobody wants Turner out of the managerial chair more than me.
Like I told you on another thread, you are seeing what you want to see.
Tigro is merely saying what he thinks could happen, he is not saying he wants Pools to lose the next two or three games. You are making assumptions.
If he is saying he wants that then fair enough, but until he does, you can't assume that is what he means. All you had to do is ask Tigro if he actually wanted Pools to lose the next two or three games and then if he said he did, then find another poster to say his post meant the same thing and bingo, I wouldn't have challenged your statement.
Simple really.

I also think it won't happen, and I'll be there on Saturday, and I want us to win.
I have never been to a Pools match were I have wanted us to lose...never......and never will.
My position is similar to yours, Chip............I just don't rate him.
I am convinced that another manager would get more out of this squad than Turner does, but I would never be happy at us losing just to get rid.
Turner himself must know by now that he just can't cut it at this level...............he's had enough goes for Christ's sake.
IOR must know as well.
If they are happy with the situation then we are stuck with it.
As assumptions seem to be the order of the day, are we to assume that dwindling crowds, unrest amongst the fans won't get something done. If so then we must also assume that the owners are happy.
Well I certainly wouldn't be.

I have never said 'fans' where saying that we wanted to lose, just that Tigro inferred that with his comment, without a reply from him neither of us knows for sure what he meant, so neither you or I can claim to be right in what is becoming a tedious and pointless argument.

Your first sentence says it all, Grave.
You use the words " appears to"
That is an assumption.
I have said the same thing, but there is no way that it means that i would like to see Pools lose any games, never mind the next two or three.
Your options say it all, and you back them up with strong argument. So why wait if you are so convinced CT is not the man for the job.
I think if we are going to give interpretations, Mr Tigro is saying that if Turner strings some wins together it will be more difficult to sack him, which makes certain sense.
If Turner actually demonstrated that he is getting the best out of the squad more consistently and showed a bit more tactical nous than he has done, then give him a go.
He has demonstrated, with over 180 games in this division, that he can't cut it.
So why wait another two or three or four or more.

That's what you said. Notice the s on the end of supporter. I have used the word fans ( another word for supporter in footballing terms), but in previous posts I have quoted what you said perfectly ( just like this one)
It is getting tedious, simply because you are squirming.
You made an assumption that Tigro plus at least one other supporter wanted Pools to lose the next two or three games.
I question that assumption based on the fact that I also think a run of two or three wins will help CT's cause BUT that doesn't in any way shape or form state that I want Pools to lose those games. Nor does it mean that Tigro does, although it could turn out that way if he was to actually state that which, to date, he hasn't.
You added two and two and got...................
Didn't you.

fookin hell derwent you're a pedantic twat aint ya???!
who the frig cares!
pointless argument this

oh, and stop abusing John 11:35

No, it's getting tedious because the issue doesn't merit the attention it's getting.

I'm completely befuddled here. If Tigro didn't mean something equivalent to BP's and Grave's interpretation, what on earth else could he have meant??
Even if Tigro didn't mean that, it's quite common for message board posters, once they've turned against a manager, to say equivalent things.
Where's Salty when you need him?

Bloody hell, Salty. That was spooky....

Yeah mate.

I love that John 11/35.. Impressive.

Sorry to bore you, mate. I'll stop now.

Tigro probably did, but surely that is up to Tigro to confirm.
I thought the same as Tigro but there is no way that going on a match winning run would upset me. So there are conflicting interpretations, but I thouht that was obvious....mebbe not.......my fault.......please excuse me.
HTH

He can't come up with his own Bible quotes Salty.

Dearie me................another assumption.
You'll be telling me I can't walk on water next.

Sorry to drag this out further, but "I thought the same as Tigro", how do you know that without confirmation exactly what Tigro was thinking when he typed that post. Is that you making assumptions too?

Of course you can't, only Brian Clough could do that.

What a load of shite!

locked.