One or two people have had a go at Turner....

Firstly, most people would have picked a similar starting 11 to him. He picked a good starting 11, Leyton Orient didn't beat us because their manager was better tactically or because we were exploited. Orient beat us because the majority of our players weren't committed. The majority of our players don't have an affinity with our club and if given the opportunity to better themselves they'd leave like a shot.

They'll give 100% and play well in the FA Cup games against Stoke and West Ham and against the bigger teams in this league such as Leicester. But when it comes to the smaller teams, they don't try as hard. They play better against the bigger teams because they know scouts are watching and they want to impress in order to move to a bigger club.

Meanwhile we expect them to give the same amount of effort and wonder why they don't.

I was very quiet on the subject of Danny Wilson. People questioned his commitment to Hartlepool. He didn't turn up to the BBC Tees Phone In, he didn't acknowledge the fans and he didn't display the passion in the same way Neale Cooper did. All valid points but what people failed to recognise was the fact that the players are responsible for their own passion. Wilson couldn't give it to them and neither can Turner, it has to come from within. They can do their best to hype them up and motivate them in the changing rooms but once they step onto that pitch it's up to them to motivate themselves. Many people would love to have their ability and play for Hartlepool and it's a shame to see them not use it.

Nobody can question Chris Turner's commitment and passion for Hartlepool. He oozes it. He was as frustrated as me in the post match interview and he pulled no punches. He was honest and that's one thing Wilson wasn't good at. Wilson tried to shield the players too much for my liking. The players let him down but he refused to publicly criticise them. Then I'd come home after a woeful performance and listen to Wilson rabbit on. That was Wilson's downfall and that's why he never connected with the fans. Yes our players played hoof ball at times while he was in charge but whose to say Wilson told them to play like that? Perhaps they were just fucking lazy.

In a nutshell, don't blame Turner. Blame the players.

I agree. Turner gets a lot of the blame at his door, but surely some players just need to pull their fingers out in games like today's match.

It's been this way for a few years. Remember the 'we're up for it' comments? I always wondered why they had to say it, surely it should have been a given. Either way they said it but never showed it.

A clear out of the sacred cows required.

There is no doubt the man has passion for the club from the things he was saying at the touchline. He was going absoultly mental at Porter all the time for being offside, prob why he got subbed off, cos he had a fairly lazy game after the first 20/30 mins.

He was defo shouting at Joel. I could hear it clear as have a bell from where I was sat. Joel also responded so it must been meant for him.

Same here. Take it you heard the same as me then? "Joel, stay F****** onside!"

Totally clear. Joel seemed a bit bemused like!

Chip, what I think is,
1. There aren't any football managers available who do everything right, so the question isn't what Turner can and can't do, but what he can and can't do, compared with a possible alternative manager.
2. Many football managers are sacked quite often, but that's often because they carry the can for other people's shortcomings.
3. People have often helped me in the things I've achieved, but I've never ever depended on anyone else to motivate me, so I'm not all that sympathetic towards professionals who need to be motivated to perform, say, set-pieces

How many games has Turner got left?. Three of the last four managers have been promoted from within the club and looks like all three have failed. Pools need to get somone in soon. Hodcroft must have looked at that game on Saturday and even he must have second thoughts about the appointment of Turner.

According to the Echo the team played so well in training this week that the management were very optimistic about the Orient game. At the game, the team didn't play well at all. I just don't see how that's the manager's fault.

It's not that I think CT is the best manager ever, it's more that after a point I can't see what difference a manager can make, apart from, ahem, obvious exceptions.

They've said he is staying till the end of the season. They're hardly likely to change that.

He picks the team, He makes the game plan, He takes the applause, He takes the brick bats that is management.
I think it is all been a bit too cosy for him since he took the Director of Sport job.

So we go down singing?

What point are you trying to make? I'm just saying that they are hardly likely to sack him when 2 weeks ago they said they're giving him the job until the end of the season

Actually Orient did seem to do their homework tactically to me. They played a high line and we struggled against it - we couldn't get behind it and we were constantly caught offside. How a professional footballer can get repeatedly caught offside is beyond me - most of the time the offenders could see right along the line so they had no excuse. The players and the Manager should have enough wit and guile to get round it, but they didn't...

It's true that managers do get praised and blamed like that, but that's only convention. No-one could possibly argue that how well the team plays, or whether it wins, is down to one man. It's because managers are constantly getting blamed for things they're not entirely responsible for that there's this musical chairs situation in clubs. Thinking that a new manager is going to change the performance of all the players, every week, is a bit fairy-tale for me.

I think with that one Chip the lino actually flagged Porter who was coming back from an offside position but it was still a shocking decision seeing as he was about 15 yards or so away from the ball