Most Hartlepool fans' expectations before a ball was kicked in anger, would have been to improve , even slightly on last season's 15th.

ALL fans of a "large " team in Yorkshire expectation's would have been so far top going into Christmas that the play off's would have been guarenteed already.

Yet we're only 6 points behind that "large" team in Yorkshire. Now I'm not saying I didn't hope for better , and I'm definetely not saying I don't want better. But , if in our fans' eyes we're having a poor season just what are they thinking down the A1 ?

If a poll had been carried out before the start of the season with the question

How many points will Pools' be behind that "large" club going into Christmas then almost(IMHO) every Pools' fan would have said a lot more than 6 points.

We have also lost one less home game than the "large" club, scoring the same amount of goals at home. We have also lost the same amount of league games as that "large" club. in total. With only 4 in the league losing less.

Something that also made me laugh yesterday were the fixtures for January 3rd.

FACup round 3 Hartlepool v Stoke

League 1 Hereford v "large" club in Yorkshire.

Now who would have thought many years ago that we would be playing in the 3rd round of the cup while "large" club in Yorkshire played a league game against Hereford (no disrespect to Hereford intended)

Maybe, just maybe our season is not as bad as some think.

This is not an optimistic or pessimistic post. I'm just comparing some interesting stats to how some fans of other clubs (well one club in Yorkshire) will be seeing how their season is going so far.

We dont expect to much (that's not to say we shouldn't as a Hull fan on the train pointed out last night on the way home, If they can do it other small clubs can) , other fans of "large" teams dont expect it, they demand it. And that means when you dont reach the standard expected, then their is a lot more disappointed fans.

It so much more fun being a fan of a "small" club, in my opinion.

Bob talking a lot of sense as usual.

He does that, except when he strays into politics

There is still a frustration though and I think it stems from a percieved lack of passion and Wilson's insistance to stick with the same old same old. A lot of people have been calling for Rowell to be given a chance for months but he has only been played when there was no alternative.

I don't believe that there are funds available nor do I believe there'll be any forthcoming next month so we have what we have and must make the best of it. All considered we're not in a bad position but there is an undercurrent of belief that it could be better.

I was only referring to todays league position. As for the future, I agree, we're fooked this season. I would not be in the least suprised to see us go down.

My ambitions for Pools' stretch far beyond "O well we a division above Darlo and well they got beat today". Darlo IMHO are NO LONGER our rivals, and the constant songs sung at games about them, get on my nerves,as I have pointed out on numerous occasions.

The point of my original post here is there are many clubs, some which consider themselves to be "BIG", who are currently under-achieving.

Take Arsenal supporters for instance, some want Wenger out. Why???? Because they have won nothing for 4 years.( They want to worry when they reach 100 years)

Yet they currently in a position to make next season's Champions League. They're in the last 16 of this season's Champion's League, yet some are still disappointed at that.

F*** me what do they want ??? Yes trophies would be nice (we all want them) but there are millions of fans' across Europe who would give their right hand for the position they are in at the moment.

Wenger was appointed in 1996 since then Arsenal have won 3 Premership titles, been runner's up 5 times, won 4 FA Cups, and been beaten finalist's once. Won the League Cup, 2 Charity Shield's and been beaten finalist's in the Champions League. The record is further improved with 2 doubles under Wenger. They also only one of about 5 teams to win successive FA Cups 2002 and 2003 (Under Wenger again).

Yet their fans' want more. Not many fans get that sort of success under one manager.

Expectations are what all football fans' have, some are higher than other fans' of other clubs, but there will always be fans somewhere who are more disappointed.

Who would want to be in Luton's position.

I would be.

We currently sit 13th, A goal differnce of minus 1. Only the top 9 and Northampton (+1) in 15th have better.

Home games against teams below us only still to play Crewe, Northampton, Carlisle, Orient, Hereford,

Away games once more against teams below us again to play, Swindon, Brighton, Colchester, Cheltenham, Crewe, Yeovil, and Bristol Rovers.

Now some of them may well be above us by the time we played them but there is 12 games there that at this moment in time could be described as the proverbial 6 pointer. Now , MY EXPECTATIONS (as that what this thread about, i.e expectations) would be somewhere in the region of 10 points out of the 15 available at home.That is a realistic expectation, though we would all want 15.

Now the away games , with our away form would be a lot less. But I could see us getting around 7-9 points from the 21 available. So Im giving us approx 17-19 points off teams below us (so putting us on 43-45 points from 32 games). So with my expectations we need to find somewhere in the region 8-10 points from 14 games to stay up. That was not what I wanted at the start of the season, just to stay up, but at this moment in time I believe WE WILL NOT GO DOWN.

One thing I can say without doubt, is that Wilson deserves all the abuse he gets if he reverts back to 4-3-3 on Friday and we fail to win again.

But only about week ago,if my memory serves me right, you posted something along the lines of

we will pick up homes wins against the likes of Crewe, Southend, and Orient,teams I have us winning against. So really our expectations are the same, I just listed more games were I believe we can gain points.

So your as OPTIMISTIC as I am. We can form an Optimistic Pools Fan Club, only the most optimistic can join.

That's Tree and Grave banned then!

I wouldn't disagree with that. Kyle back to Coventry would release enough wages to bring in maybe 2 players, in positions we need them.

Of course, that would mean another forward, what, with Brown's injury ruling him out for the season. Wilson would have to decide were else he wants to strengthen,everyone on here would ,gladly, give him their opinions were those positions are.

But some player's who may be worth trying to bring in till end of season (or longer if permanent) would be IMHO

Shearer (Wycombe goalkeeper) if can off load one of the 3 we have.

Ward (Chesterfield forward) refused contract extension, but probably well out of our price range.

Gwilliam (Histon) yes I know people would say we can do better than non league, but I was impressed with him against Leeds and did appear a natural left back. Only 25/26 may be worth a punt.

Bishop (forward) Bury I always liked him.

I'm surprised Bishop is still at Bury

You base your entire reasoning on the irrelevant 'fact' that Leeds United are not doing as well as anticipated, as if to say it's OK, because Leeds aren't living up to expectataions and we're just behind them.....the point being? Don't bother answering that because I know what the point is and it's nonsense.
I only care about Pools performing to their full potential, the performance of other teams is an irrelevance, comparing the performance of Leeds to Pools, is the attitude of someone who 'knows their place' and it's wrong.
Why should Pools fans be distracted from expecting the best from their team by comparisons such as this? UTTERLY POINTLESS.

we finished the 03/04 season above Sheffield Wednesday, not to mention a few other clubs now in the Championship, such as Barnsley, Blackpool and Bristol City.
I agree with Snowy, despite being a big club they've no right to finish above anyone, and if Pools finish above them but we finished 2nd bottom it could hardly be described as a successful season!!!!
Wilson still doesn't seem get the maximum effort and committment from his teams in every game in the same way some managers do, well that's my opinion anyway

Aye, I'm a little surprised too but at the same time I can understand those who like to bash him.

Wilson needs a visit from the ghost Of Christmas past... Cyril Knowles, a manager who could get the most from a small squad during a 'credit crunch'.......

I've come to the conclusion that Pools need a Scottish boss. They are just the right type - down to earth, won't stand for any slacking whatsoever, and they are always determined to prove they are better than everyone else. They just seem to go that extra yard. It's no coincidence Preston have done well in the Championship by picking their last 3 bosses from north of the border - Moyes, Davies and now Irvine. Owen Coyle at Burnley another one, Sturrock has always done well with what he's had to work with wherever he's been.
Plus our own example of Neale Cooper.
Hoots mon tha noo next season for us and we'll be alright

The Broons and och aye the noooooooooooooooooooooo

There's always Sam Allardyce, he'll apply to manage owt, off licences, bingo halls, a good shit.....

Spits his chuddy out as well so he'll pass the 'passion' test so beloved of many Poolies.....