The club had an operating loss of £1.6 million last year. If anyone doubts the support that IOR have given then think on. The statement makes interesting reading http://www.hartlepoolunited.co.uk/stati ... 668,00.pdf it also gives an update on who had their contracts renewed or options taken. There could be quite a clear out come the end of teh season with Monky, Nelse, Joel, Matty and Lids etc all out of contract as well as Boland, Mackay and Yound. Both Foley and Humphs signed new deals in the summer though it doesn't state their term.

It will be interesting to see what those that attended the AGM have to say when they get back.

Two things from that report stand out for me.
One is the great work Pools do with the young people of the town.
The other is just how worried they are about the falling attendances especially after doubling their losses last year.

We are clearly only going to see one or two new faces at most this year. I guess that a lot of footballers that are out of contract are going to see their wages in any new contract fall as a result of the overall economic situation, not just at Pools but everywhere. There could be quite a shake up in the summer. A lot of fringe players at all clubs could find themselves out of football. If we are to rely on bringing youngsters through then perhaps Danny needs to start giving them some opporunities in the first team!

Just back from the meeting and it is clearly going to be a very difficult period ahead. The economic downturn was sensed by the oil industry much earlier in the year - hence the lack of investment in the Summer. It was made clear that we are pretty much going to have to manage with what we have got - certainly for the time being. Danny's hands are pretty much tied - so we know he will have to play people out of position at times but there is simply no alternative. The message was that the club have to acknowledge that supporters don't have lots of spare case at the moment, hence falling crowds. However fans have to acknowledge that football clubs are also going through a very difficult period as well. Those that manage their finances well will survive but there are many that will experience difficulties through lack of prudence, so expect more cases of administration.

While disappointed, it is good to know that Pools are at least in "safe" hands, unlike some others. Time perhaps to get off the back of some of the players and the manager. We know some aren't probably good enough - and I suspect the club realise this as well - but we have just got to give them some support and home they can give their full support.

I have previously been pissed off with Wilson but this season we all need to cut him some slack, it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that his hands are tied. If we can finish mid table it would be a great effort.

hmm, I agree PJ....

Once again it just goes to show how good that IOR have been to this club. £9m is a hell of a lot of cash over the period they've been with us!

IOR

In my honest opinion most of the fans will accept it if IOR come out and admit to such problem. The issue is that Danny is unwilling to give youth a try. There are some talented youngsters at the club who 'should' be able to do a job for the first team but they get ignored or released. If the club are in such financial turmoil then surely the youngsters should be getting a chance especially given the small squad.

I would much rather go to games and see youngsters who are supposed to be the clubs future getting a game than the regulars playing in the wrong positions.

This is Danny's fault NOT IOR's.

As we can all see, the fans turn up in no less numbers should we be in Division 2 so we have nothing to lose. If the youth players are not up to the job then there are deeper problems at the club which need addressing but how will we know if they never get a chance

Don't let tigro hear you say that..... he thinks Darlow are the perfect business model

Was thinking that myself. Given their low gates at present it is amazing that they continue to add to their already quite large squad. If they don't manage to get up this season (and even if they do) I can see financial trouble building up.

What a load of bollocks grave.

What is Danny's fault? Being mid table in League One and the third round of the cup?

Eveyones crowds are down in the current climate, it's a football wide problem. The club aren't in 'financial turmoil' the World is. The club are just being sensible.

Would you laugh like fook or feel sorry for them if they had to get the buckets out once again??

Laugh like fk. Without a shadow of a doubt.

mr grave, wilson is paid to make decisions and im pretty sure most will agree that the players in our 1st team squad are better than whats is currently available from the youth team. There is no point in playing kids if the are not ready/ good enough

I think the kids will be getting their chance before long with the injury situation worsening and suspensions comning nearer.

I think it's about time people woke up and realised it's not 2004/2005 anymore, we aint going to stomp in this division and get in the play-offs like then.

The club seem content to consolidate, not pump in millions, but keep it steady.

Wilsons hands appear tied.

concur. And i reckon wilson will be kicking himself that he didnt get a better goalkeeper in when he had the chance. But for the time being we are stuck with what we have. So come on budtz, its your time to shine

But then again, totally contradicting myself i know, the club have give him the money for Kyle.

So surely there is some money there?

Wouldnt £3,500 a week be better used on 3 players at 1k a week?

we don't know it for exact, but it wont be low will it?

He's on premiership wages at coventry so he'll be on championship wages here.

I cant come to terms with teh safety part of that.

Where he harps on about "Footprint". why not take the seats out of the RInk end. that would then reduce the police presence as away fans wont stand up simply because they get told to sit down. When they are told to sit down they all sit down and then sing

"Stand Up if you hate (their rivals)" etc.

then the police get heavy handed and that when the trouble starts. its the same in all divisions. the trouble inside the grounds all starts when fans are told to sit down. simple answer, take away the seats!!!

fair points there, and I think we'll have to make do and mend or else we'll not have a club in the future.
There are still far too many clubs mortgaging their futures on getting promotion right now, and something tells me there's still clubs out there who just can't help themselves but live beyond their means. It's ingrained in their owners, their players and most of all their fans.
Then they'll wonder why they end up where someone like Luton or Bournemouth have done.

As far as i am aware you have to offer away fans some seating...? That's why Pools get some of the stand at Peterbrough for example......

Put a bench in the disabled enclosure at the front.

Top post, PJ.

We had the Queen's Speech today and now here's the King's Speech.

All in all, from what I can tell Hodcroft's annoyed by the economy, the ground purchase, the low attendances and us being knocked out of the JPT.

But other than that from what I can gather, he thinks we'll be fine with waht we've got, we've just got to make do like during the war to get through the bad times.

How times change eh??

Martin Scott puts Brackstone, Turnbull, Robson, Craddock and Maidens in the team and everyone goes 'OOOhhh fookin' NO Scotty, not the kids.......

Yet this year......

When we don't look like anything close to as bad as were then.....

Poolies crack me up.

That's cos most Poolies just love to fucking moan Spender!

You'll have to fight that one out with Mr John I'm afraid, according to his site:

Brackstone 2 starts aye

Turnbull 16 starts 5 subs

Robson 13 starts 6 subs

Craddock 4 starts aye

Maidens 11 starts 9 subs

Now, if you're going to pull the Stevo card out of your sleeve, that is to miss the point that one season Poolies don't want the kids and then three seasons later, they do. And anyway, we got relegated giving the kids 46 games and 20 subs between 'em. Lambs to the slaughter.

i think we're all looking at this subject from the wrong angle, I agree with Chips comments about the AGM incidentally and there lays a quandry. Times are hard, but that's universal, everybody's in the same boat, but is it a problem or an opportunity? I appreciate we'll have to live within our means, but that's no reason for an outbreak of excuse making for on field performances, like any business in these circumstances, the one who maximises its assets survives. I for one am giving Wilson no slack, nor would I give it to any other manager, because in reality nothing has changed. In the present economic circumstances we need someone who can get the maximum out of the players we've got, at present we aren't. It's no good accepting these situations as some fait accompli because they aren't, they're an opportunity, so put the fookin hankies away and toss the sympathy cards in the bin, stop feeling sorry for yourselves in a collective way and start looking for the positives, because no one is getting any sympathy or understanding from me... managers are expected to manage in the rough times as well as the bad times, Let's see what he's made of, it's exam time.


I hope the Chairman shares my philosophy.

Apologies for un-originality but

wtf are you going on about?

to be fair I think Geoff N reported from the meeting, it was also implied that anybody who doesn't fit in with the philosophy of going with what we've got can move on, and they'll get someone in who'll apply themselves with the correct attitude. I think the away form was also cited as a major problem and is currently unacceptable. Let's see how the management team can respond, I certainly don't feel we get 100% effort all of the time from all quarters. A club like Pools has to be ultra competitive on the pitch because refs have never liked us and we're always on the wrong end of bias in favour of opponents, whether we're home or away. I don't believe there's a level playing field where HUFC is concerned - but it can be overcome with the right attitude and committment. If the manager doesn't transmit the same determination he expects from his players, then the players won't either.

I believe the most important person in any club is the manager, I believe a teams play reflects the mangers attitude and philosophy generally and what you see on the pitch is their interpretation of the game. I also believe a manager who can get 100% commitment out of his players, physically and mentally, can save a club a lot of money too. I want to see players playing out of their skins.
I do not want to hear tales of the credit crunch and ooh let's get behind the manager and ride the storm, there is no storm and if you weren't fully behind him before, how can you logically want to support him when things are supposedly going to get tough. it's a convenient cop out for managers who see it as a port of refuge excuse wise. Can't bring players in..? well try getting the best out of what you've got, because there'll be lots more managers in worse positions having to do just that, ...manage better.

either way it looks like Turner and Hodcroft we're celebrating last night as they we're livin it up in loons till the early hours.

what I was trying to say, but not as well as you did!!!

Walked away to what...? in times of trouble, people stay where they are and wait for something to turn up... a perfect time to ask for more out of a manager actually.
I really am lost by people saying we're all in this together, let's stick together stuff, no we aren't. We as supporters should not lower our sights, we should be expecting to get more from the talent we've got and that is the managers job
How does a recession affect the way a manager gets the maximium from his playing staff, it doesn't actually prevent a player from performing physically. In fact one positive side could be that when contract time comes there may be players who were leaving realising the money down the road aint what it was if times are hard, It's an ill wind
A recession is not something for people to hide behind, but there's plenty seeing it that way.

Who is asking for his head, it's just a gentle reminder that the so called recession is not something to use as an excuse and a reminder to get the best out of what he's got.

Oh dear, ....oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....... surely not?

it's the same argument regarding attendances. It makes no difference what they are once you have the staff in place - because whether there's 2,000 or 7,000 there they are the players we've got and they have to do the business, and the manager has to get them to do the business regardless of who is watching.
Obviously a bigger crowd will lift the players, but performances, team selections and tactics are not affected by how many people are watching.

It was clear from the meeting that at the start of the season it was believed that we had a good enough squad to be pushing for the play offs if everyone played to their full potential week in week out. It was also acknowledged that failure to add to the squad pre season was a gamble - we had the smallest squad for many years, and much depended on keeping players injury and suspension free.

As it stands, we now have players missing, some by injury some their own fault (ALB who has been fined by the club). It is obvious to all that we are getting down to the bare bones - a fact, not an excuse.

Hodcroft still expects everyone, players, managers and backroom staff to be giving 100% to the cause - and we as paying fans have a right to expect this as well. However, we know that some players we are now having to rely upon are not good enough - even if they are giving 100% each and every week.

As a result it is no use getting on their backs when things don't always go right and it's no use criticising Wilson for chopping and changing things around and playing people out of position on occasions. It is something being forced upon him. Yes, he is still the manager - and yes he is paid to manage, but we just need a degree of realism to set in as well.

the key point in there for me is the wages.what was it up to 2.1 mill,17% above the wage cap limit.while they're drawing the best wages anyone ever has at pools then they need to be delivering.
Hodcroft does a great line in damning with faint praise,he describes the playing staff as committed but the office staff as VERY committed!! he's a subtle one

I agree with Chips final point about the fans forum. IMHO the club do seem to have become more remote from the fans and this is not healthy for any club but particulary one the size of Pools. Fans are kept in the dark about many aspects to do with the club and a little more openness would be very welcome. However, I'm not sure that the reason for this lies with Wilson. Has he said he won't attend any such talk ins or has he actually been banned by the club from attending them?

So how come the wages have went up so much?

We've only signed Power, Jones and Cook.

Power and Cook can't be on much, jones will be on a decent wage but nothing amazing.

If anything our squad is smaller than this time last year.

Player bonuses? Wage increases?

If we'd signed 4-5 top class, cartwheel signings I can understand.

The club needs to analyse this in depth, the money spent on wages has gone up, yet the standard of football has not.

Wages went up mainly as a result of being promoted backk up to League 1. Remember the figures relate to the year up to the end of December 2007.

I didn't know Dibbs worked at the Vic

He was chopping and changing when times weren't hard and when it wasn't being forced upon him, so I don't put too much credence in that particular point of view.... he's a serial tinkerer in my view.

You are assuming Wilson and Pools are the same entity, as though they need each other, they don't. If he walked tomorrow, the world would carry on and we'd continue to play footy...now if IOR walked, different scenario altogether.

I question his judgement on the signing of kyle.

When for less money we could have got dimi on loan, a position we needed more than striker in my eyes.

Maybe before Browny did his cruciate, but now it looks a timely signing. I think given the size of our squad we don't have space (or Wilson couldn't justify having) for four keepers. It's difficult but I don't think we will be able to sign a keeper until one is shipped out and who in their right mind would want one of our keepers? Barker obviously wanted to be closer to home, Kyle is a logical (arguably better) replacement.

Oh course he is, Barker did struggle in League One if we're honest even though you can't knock his efforts for the club. It is clear from his comments since he left that Barker has wanted to leave for a while. I don't think the idea of the move endeared him from the start (I don't believe he didn't want to play for us I just think it was the traveling in the style of Ian Moore). Wilson didn't let him go until he had a suitable replacement, had he signed a keeper we'd have more keepers in the squad than forwards at the moment plus an unhappy Richie Barker.

mr thin and crusty and mr pj i doth my cap to you both. Excellent posts both of you. Thats exactly what i have not been able to put into words.