Yet

2007/08 played 15 points 21 GD +2

2008/09 played 15 points 23 GD +4

2007/08 4 points from a play off position

2008/09 3 points from a play off position

2007/08 8 points from a relegation position

2008/09 10 points from a relegation position

2007/08 scored 21

2008/09 scored 26

2007/08 concededed 19

2008/08 concededed 22

Now apart from the fact we conceded 3 (yes only 3) more goals this season than at the same point last season. Every other stat shows we have done better over the first 15 games.

So if we use the statistics from the first 15 games we are better off than last season. Now I know we not setting the world alight here but there is improvement, which hopefully will carry on till the end of the season. Meaning another season in league 1 next season. We can then build on that. Now Im sure someone will reply in the negative to this thread, but the statistics so far speak for themselves.

And with our goals against column only 3 goals worse off it actually means we have conceded all of 0.2 goals more per game than last season.

While we have scored 0.3 goals more per game.

Yes we know there are lies,damned lies and stastics (Disraeli) and that stastics are usually used to bolster weak arguments(or so they say) But all the above say, as previously stated we are better off than at this stage last season.

Please feel free to disagree with me (I know many will) but try to give some sort of reasoned debate.

At about this stage last season I was pilloried by the majority for suggesting it was going to be a long hard season where we would end up nearer the bottom of the table than the top.

But I won't trawl through the board to bump it back up to the top.

Mr Ripper was pilloried? Why weren't we invited?

You tend to find that the teams who can grind out wins & draws consistently when they are playing shite are the teams that are good enough for promotion. we have 8 or 9 quality quality players and another 3 or 4 who can do a job when needed.

We need more quality, but to get more quality we need better players, but to get better players we need more money, to get more money we need better crowds, to get better crowds we need more attractive and entertaining football, to get more attractive and entertaining football we need more quality, but to get more quality we need better players, but to get better players we need more money............ oh my heads starting to hurt

I'm not for one minute in time going to suggest that we're going to be nearer the top than the bottom. We need to sort out quite a few things on the pitch,before I will do that. Maybe it just seems as if more people are moaning than last season because posts are being brought up again and again.

Misterb makes a valid point, with his never ending circle with regards to players and quality etc.

The "moaners" (as I put it) never (in my opinion) give more than a one line post, usually "Wilson out", but never an opinated remedy for improving what we have. Wilson is doing ok with what he has got. I would love to see more quality players brought in, whether as actual starters or to strengthen the bench, so we can possibly change a game if needed.

But we can all assume that the money to do that is not available. We could bring in loan players now, but would that use up any money that may be available in January. If it did, do we want to bring in short term solutions, or would we be better off waiting till January, and signing players permantly so we have more strength next season.

We have 2 months to go to the transfer window, now, yes, we may be dragged into a relegation fight, we may not(the latter is my opinion), we may push on and upwards toward play offs( unlikely in my opinion). But each and every one of us need to show support, for the manager and current player's.

Carlisle have just sacked Ward, he took them to 4th last season. He signed a 3 year deal (may even have been 4 yr I cant remember) . How much of their budget has that just taken away from any future manager, due to having to pay him off. They still stuck with the same player's (loans excluded) until January. Can we afford big backroom staff changes? I dont think so.

WHAT? ... there were plenty of reasoned arguments last season amongst the so called 'moaners', it's just that the one line insults catch the eye... don't forget we also have a gullible tendency who would applaud anything the club do, who can be just as irritating.

What he said as well.

i'm actually starting to get angry with the constant use of the above comment by people.

If it was factually correct then fine, but it's not.

please correct me if i am wrong with the following....

1) At this moment, the clubs policy is '1 out before we can get 1 in'.
2) We tried (unsuccessfully) to get rid of Budtz on loan.
3) We tried to get another keeper, but it fell through because of point 2 above.

Now the above points are factually correct. So (and i'm sorry if it appears i'm just having a go at you mr ADG) before twat with hamster glides in with his "wilson signed these goons in the first place" argument, IT'S IRRELEVANT.

Wilson HAS tried to resolve the keeper situation, he has NOT refused to bring one in.

Now leave me be while i go and fetch my toys back into me pram

^ what he said

I do believe I've said similar before, But we DID have a triallist keeper in the summer and if its to be believed we tried to sign the guy, But because of the above mentioned 1 in 1 out policy we couldnt get rid of Janet Budtz so the keeper and Pools went their seperate ways

I'm afraid it's not irrelevant, he did sign them and in any other walk of life, if you buy something that doesn't come up to spec you get ..'stick'... to buy two beggars belief. it really is no good saying "I've made a double mistake, can I have another one...?" when the answer from your not very pleased boss is " no, get the ones you bought with MY money to work", you realise it is YOUR problem, no one elses.

IT IS irrelevant because the argument is....

has he tried to resolve the GK problem or not?

please correct me if i am wrong with the following....

1) At this moment, the clubs policy is '1 out before we can get 1 in'.
2) We tried (unsuccessfully) to get rid of Budtz on loan.
3) We tried to get another keeper, but it fell through because of point 2 above.

what he said,

We could now bring in a new keeper if Kyle is not stopping until January.

Whether it's irrelevant or relevant, whether he's tried or he hasn't he obviously hasn't tried hard enough. He signed two keepers who weren't good enough to start with and apart from the slight improvement shown by ALB things haven't improved since the time they were signed (about 16 months ago). I'm sorry the fact that we had some sweaty on trial in summer doesn't appease me in the slightest. We still have Jan Budtz and ALB as our keepers that is the black and white, I have no idea if we have a 'one in, one out' policy and neither do you but if that is that's case they should have taken more care in who they signed in the first place.

... get real, the time ro reslove the keeper question was when Dimi left, ...but he didn't, he had two goes and only now do we have an average keeper..as for asking for another one, it's like telling your lass you want more of the housekeeping money because you chose two tellys that burst into flames and then tell it's her fault we haven't got a telly to watch because she won't give you even more money... er, no. YOU chose the tellys, you were the fookin expert, your choice, you sort it. Or doesn't logic apply to managers.?

sorry but from the King of Analogies, that one was rubbish. If you had a telly that blew up, then surely you would take it back to Currys as it would still be under warranty?

He made 2 mistakes (amongst many others) by getting both Budtz & ALB. But lets look on the face of it, Budtz the season before he signed for us played for Donny and went on loan to a Championship club (Wolves maybe?)

That would suggest he is a half decent keeper. And to be fair, he is a half decent keeper, who makes too many mistakes. Those mistakes only became apparent after about 10 games of the season, so you're using hindsight as a weapon against the manager.

And ALB looks like a half decent back-up, which is what he was signed for and will improve with age.

His 'mistake' was signing them both on 2 year deals.

He isn't a half decent keeper he's absolutely shite.

One of the very worst I've ever seen at Pools and I've seen Rob Moverley and Steve Jones

see now you're over-exaggerating. He is NOT good enough to be a number 1 at a league 1 club, but he is ok as a back up for the 1 or 2 games a season where he would be called up.

'Using hindsight as a weapon against the manager' ...every fookin footy fan in the country does it...except you.
All managers are judged on their signings after they've performed for their new club, we could hardly judge them before could we? That's why managers get the sack eventually.
As for the analogy, it wasn'r bought at Currys, he got them off a mate in the pub

in that case, you're completely right

but going back to the Budtz thing, here's an example. He may have watched budtz play say 3 or 4 times and may have been impressed. The scouts also said he was a good GK and the GK coach also rated him. at what point does it become a mistake to sign him?

He is not good enough for the football league full stop he's shocking, he has played less than 60 league games and he's coming up 30. That is because he is not up to playing at that standard. He was signed as our number one, an absolutely terrible decision from whoever made it.

As for your comment about people thinking he was ok for 10 games, I think you confusing that with people just being willing to give someone a chance. You look at some of those goals he conceded in the early part of that season, in fact think back to his first touch for the club in the home friendly against Newcastle, a Shola Ameobi shot my nana would have saved.

He might be a nice man and a good pro but he isn't good enough to be earning a wage from our football club.

Sorry PJ my comment about being a half decent number 2 was about ALB, i got mixed up!

your right bob this should be called the moaning bunker.

BIRTHS
POK and Austin are delighted to announce the safe arrival of their 'beautiful' baby optimist Upthepools.
A darling brother for Jock.
First grandchild for Mr and Mrs Tickwatty-Hill.

NICE ONE SNOWY.

It's all about having a laugh

what was the gist of what he said like? My eyes are going funny, I can't make it out...............

More moaning is probably for 1 simple reason.... we are so close to being a top 6 side but Wilson cant see/is not able to put the finishing touches to the team.

Its frustration, simple as that.

Well apart from the quote along the lines of "we tried to get Soutar in but it fell through at the last minute" (due to Budtz outgoing move falling through)

Can you provide me with the original quote from Wilson saying he is "more than happy with our two keepers"?

I remember him saying he was happy with ALB's progress. Doesn't mean he is happy to have him as a permanent No.1 though, does it?

One of us appears to be mis-quoting or mis-understanding Wilsons comments

Wasn't Budtz meant to be going on loan to either Mansfield or Macclesfield, i cant remember which, but they pulled out at the last minuite.

i agree. any recent positive comments from Wilson on ALB will just be to try and improve his confidence even more and should in no way be taken to mean he thinks ALB is the dogs bollock

Neither. Lincoln.

Although The Mail and others did say Mansfield at the time.

It was probably just a smokescreen.