I know this has probably been discussed before but 911 was just a massive con set up by the American government to justify war wasn't it?

I remember them lot, one of them was a Carlisle fan not that I know a lot about them like, that period of music was the beginning of the end for anything decent.....

The nineties was cack wasn't it??

All them bedroom techno freaks making bleepy dance rubbish followed by twitching dancers covering the Bee Gees with no shirt on. I despaired.

i quite like some of the dance stuff, Prodigy, Underworld, ATB, Mauro Picotto etc; there is even a time and a place for Aqua but there were loads of boy bands that were just utter shite in the late 90's all doing the same thing singing crappy ballads. Now we have the fantastic X-Factor..........

so...........were Bros any good then?

They were better than 911 but no where near as good as the Human League or A ha.......

They were but so where Bros weren't they? maybe Bros were on the cuspe 89-91 ish but I could be wrong. Were you a fan of Bros Mr Atweasle?

There were odd tracks that were OK but that was mainly down to saturation wasn't it?? You didn't like them, you just got used to them. It was mainly loud drum machines.

When someone on X Factor turns up with a guitar and says 'Simon, I've written this song.........' but until that happens it's just karaoke based pap purporting to be a competition. It's not.

But we live in an era of postmodernism where creativity is strictly discouraged and everything is standardised, it is virtually impossible to create a completely new idea as everything can be compared to something past........

It's all been shite since Roy Orbison died.

Well that's very true. As I've always said there's only so many keys and so many chords and you can only use what you've got. But I don't see much merit in just regurgitating everything without trying to put your own stamp on it. It can be done so it should be done. Trouble is everbody is just after the stimulus response all the time.

they certainly conned people over it, and they certainly used it as an opportunity to justify the war. Don't know if the true scale of the cover-up will ever be known by us. Far too many unanswered questions. That's not to say the gov't orchestrated the whole thing but the fact is they have withheld and been secretive and misleading about a great deal of stuff and have not explained why.

Assuming the two towers collapsing in the way they did, after a load of lunatics had somehow flown planes into them, was totally explainable, that third building which collapsed in New York is one of the most contentious points for me. Not to mention the Pentagon incident on the same day which appears to be one of the worst cover-ups I've ever heard of.

in the nunnery?

clap clap

thought that was kev's department

There are tens if not hundreds of questions that need answering on the whole issue that never will be because Blair is in on the big lie as well. Anyone that dares to question anything regarding the issue is made to look like a lunatic by the media.....

Behave, the USA & UK goverment couldnt organise as piss up in the King Johns Tavern, let alone 9/11

Were the UK attacks faked, along with the Madrid attacks and the USS Cole?
What about the attacks on the towers in 1993?

What about the bombings in Bali and others?

Give your head a shake

IF 911 was a setup by the US government then you are going to create a lot of cultural tension and encourage extremism, do you not think? The muslims aren't allowed a proper voice and this encourages extremism.

It suits a lot of people in government for people to take an US and THEM mentality.

Thinking about things I find it hard to believe that anyone could believe what the USA and UK governments tell us about 911 and anyone who does any research will probably agree that the powers that be are trying to pull the wool over our eyes.......

The moon landings were faked and the world is flat

And Iraq really do have weapons of mass destruction that could destroy cities in the UK within 45 minutes........

And?, what has that got to do with Sept 11th 2001?

One was a lie and the other, according to you is a conspiricy



One thing is for certain, the US & UK were 'in bed' with Al Q for years, but pissed Bin Laden big time and thats when this all started.

If the USA managed to pull this one off, then I will eat shite with the flies

But Bin Laden denied it didn't he?

Why did the US government allow the Bin Ladens to leave the USA shortly after the event?

There are hundreds of holes in the US story, no one has the truthful answer but US story is very very shaky if you do some research.

I can't believe that 4 aeroplanes can be hijakked with pen knives and crashed into 3 of the most important buildings over the space of 2 hours in arguably the worlds leading country.

Plus why did building 7 collapse when it wasn't struck by an aeroplane or anything?

If all of this was one huge conspiracy, why would the government do it so badly?

Is that you Grassy Knollington...? Tell me you're having a laugh....... here we go , the moon landings weren't real, the world really is flat, etc etc etc ad nauseum stupid

Yeah but at least Grassy gets it right .....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassy_Knollington

Its very easy to mock Snowy and bypass the question, you choose not to even comment on the collapse of building 7 because you either don't know what I am talking about or don't have an answer. There are many documentorys on the subject that are widely available, maybe if you watch a few you could give a proper viewpoint and have a proper discussion without going off on a tangent.......

Who knows what effect the collapsing of two of the largest buildings in the
world would have on nearby buildings? The 'earthquake' effect from the planes crashing into the Twin Towers, can't really be predicted by experts, and certainly not by you or me Jonny.

Or are you trying to tell us the planes crashing into the towers were really only holograms, and no planes were really involved?

....unlike johnny.

iT IS VERY EASY TO MOCK WHEN YOU PROPAGATE FANTASIES LIKE THIS....

I'm not suggesting that aeroplanes didn't hit the twin towers. If you watch soething like 'Loose Change (2nd Edition)' or '911 Mysteries' available on google video then you may also realise that there is a massive hidden agenda.

Jonnys day......

Jonnys mam; Would you like a cup of tea..?

Jonny; is it American tea...?

J.M;; don't be silly, it's from Tescos.

J ; no mum, it may have been altered, i've seen a dvd by Hiram J Wankburger thats says,blah, blah, blah....

JM; that's all very well jonny but what do you want to drink.

J; Water.....but boil it to kill the drugs the americans put into the reservoirs, because according to a book by..etc etc etc.

JM; ...WELL WOULD YOU LIKE A CHEESE SANDWICH

J; Do you listen to nothing mother, I told you weeks ago that the moon landings were organised by the americans to conquer the moon and corner all the moons cheese for themselves. All these shuttle trips are bringing back massive amounts of Lunar Cheddar so they can control the earths cheese resources, even though they didn't actually land on the moon because it was all done on a film studio ...I WAS TALKING TO A CLANGER WHO TOLD ME HOW THE AMERICANS ARE RUTHLESSLY EXPLOITING THEM ..... ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC

Whatever floats your boat Snowy....

Me as well

jonny, I'll say it again that reply wasn't just ironic, it was MEGA-IRONIC,,,

On another tangent - personally speaking I like the USA as a place to visit, and if I had the choice of another country to go and live in, it would be my first choice by far.

Where did I say they organised it?

Maybe look at the facts instead of arguing points I'm not making.

haven't got much time but i'll outline a few issues

Building 7- The official line was that is collapsed 'due to fire'. If so, this contradicts engineering assumptions and therefore all skyscrapers should be suspect.

It collapsed in a smooth vertical motion. All 47 stories of it imploded into its own footprint in less than seven seconds.

No combination of rubble impact damage, fires, or fuel tank explosions could have destroyed all columns simultaneously, as required to cause a vertical collapse.

watch... http://wtc7.net/videos.html

The structural steel was key to any real investigation.
It was quickly removed from the site and shipped to India and China.

FEMA was entrusted to investigate the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings.

They were not allowed access to Ground Zero.

Building 7, coincidentally, housed the offices of numerous government agencies, including the Department of Defense, the CIA, the Secret Service, the IRS, and the Security and Exchange Commission.

The Pentagon - surveillance tapes from nearby petrol stations and hotels were confiscated by the FBI within minutes of the 'attack'... several images and tapes have been released, to 'quell conspiracy theroists'... yet not a single frame shows an actual aeroplane.

As for Bin Laden, he said on Sept 16 2001, "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation."

it was aliens, it has to have been.

again... who mentioned those motivations being those of the US government...? you've made that connection not me.

Although the conspiracy theorists would say excuses for invading an oil-rich country and invading a multitude of civil liberties would have been somewhat motivational.

As for building 7, look at the plans and you'll see that it didn't take any sort of 'whack over the head' from the twin towers (which also collapsed in on themselves as in controlled demolitions).

If the collapse was caused by damage from the falling towers, they would have said so, rather than saying it was fire. besides there's no way falling debris could have caused a building to collapse in on itself in virtual freefall, a manner suggesting major structural disturbance.

It also wasn't an inferno - it has been documented that the fire was confined to 2 floors.

find some evidence of another building of its type collapsing due to fire and i'll change my opinion. All I can find is details of similar buildings which have burned for many times longer and much more extensively, and stayed standing.

This whole conspiracy is completely stupid


Moorer goes on and on about how close Bush is to the Bin Laden family. He does not even touch on the fact that the Bin Laden family have had nothing to do with cousin Osama for 20 years.

He then says that war is 'orrible. No shit Sherlock!! The whole film is so biased its unreal. He takes a few facts and turns them into a conspiracy that makes the whole JFK thing look like a straightforward story.

John, do you think the Blue Man Group have anything to do with this?

1) Who knows what people's motications are? But it was widely known that the USA wanted to take on Iraq. 'Project for the new american century etc'.

2) On building 7 Larry Silverstein (wtc owner) uses very suspect vocabulary in this clip about the collapse of building 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3E-26oVIIs

3) This Windsor Building in Madrid wasn't hit by an aeroplane but managed to burn for 16 hours without miraculously collapsing to rubble.
Doesn't black smoke normally mean that the fire is short of oxygan and struggling to burn.

4) If you agree that the damage to the WTC 1 and 2 was fairly substantial then why was the damage at the pentagon so inconsistant to this?

5) Accordingto the BBC 10 of the 22 hijakkers have been found alive.

6) How can one of the hijakkers passport survive the raging fire and collapse of WTC 1 and be found in the rubble?

7) After the first attack why wasn't Bush moved to a secure location quickly?

So the easiest way to do this was to kill 5000 of its own people ?



His building had been at the entre of the biggest terrorist attack in history in which thousands of people died and you think he should be Mr Calm and collected?



Completely different building and completely different circumstances. Irrelevant



Completely different building and completely different circumstances. Irrelevant



Not quite the full story now is it. Some of the identities that had been believed to have been hijackers turned out to be travelling on falsified documents. Thus the people who they believed had been killed turned up alive and well. Every heard of forgeries?



Oh FFS! Fires do not burn uniformly, they have various hot spots and other not so hot spots. It was clearly in an area where it survived the blast and much of the heat. It could simply have been inside a metal briefcase for example. I guess the black box survived too, was that supplied by the CIA ?



He was visiting a school many hundreds of miles away.

This is getting very silly.

the black box of the plane that crashed in pennsylvania was too damaged for flight data to be recovered from it. voice recordings have been recovered.

the black box of the plane that (apparently) crashed into the pentagon was too damaged for voice data to be recovered, but flight data was recovered.

the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.
(Although a couple of firefighters were adamant they found 3 of the 4 black boxes at ground zero and they were immediately taken away by the FBI)

do these facts, for they are facts, not raise any suspicions or questions in your mind?



He was told of the events and remained in a room full of schoolkids for a while after recieving the news. If he had no prior knowledge of the clearly significant and syncronised terrorist activity, and he was able-minded, why did he not realise that he would be under imminent threat and get as far away as possible from a school full of kids?

So stuff got destroyed in a fire and Bush looked stunned when he was told that 5000 people had just died in a terrorist attack in Washington.

Odd that isn't it.

Oh and by the way, the firemen were dealing with huge levels of death and trauma, I'm guessing that what were or weren't black boxes were not top of the agenda.

I'm out of this now, its very very silly.

the issue is not that he looked stunned, it was that he sat in a room full of children for many minutes after being told. only a complete moron



That's irrelevant as well. The FBI has explicitly said that no black boxes were recovered. and if you look in any depth into the durability requirements of black boxes these days, the facts stated above will become very curious indeed.



without contesting any of the points made. good going.

All of the points have been contested, we're now down to whether or not a black box was or not recognised by a traumatised fireman because that would be conclusive proof that the Bush administration and the US secret services planned and executed the killing of thousands of US citizens. It's simply too ridiculous to discuss.

for a third time... where have I suggested that I even entertain the notion that the whole thing was carried out by the US government? you're not going to get very far if you're arguing against something I'm not even saying.

The point is not surely who's fault it was, but could it have been prevented?? The smart money says yes.

Or has someone already said that?? I just got here!!

I blame the Krankies...