... to be promoted/in the play-offs?

Obviously if you do not believe we have that right then you don't really need to reply.

But having read the bunker for some time now it appears certain Poolies feel we have the 'right' to 'expect' Pools to be at least in the top 6.

Please bear in mind there are 24 other clubs in this division
Bear in mind out of the 24 clubs we are well in the bottom half of the table for average attendences
Bear in mind our fanbase is a fraction of other teams in our division
Bear in mind we have a realistic chairman who does not splash out 100K's+ and risk our future


However top6 may not be an unjust expectation. If someone told me at the start of the season we would get in the playoffs this season, I would honestly believe them. I know we have a good squad and last season Danny proved (to me) he is a good manager.

Given the restrictions our club has, do you think that we need another restriction in the form of a negative fan base?

You do not need to be an expert psychologist to see that if a player/danny wilson were to read this forum over the past few weeks, they would be devastated. Their confidence possibly shattered.

This site has potentially hundreds of Poolies reading it, and unfortunately some of those Poolies may begin to actually believe we are a club in trouble, a club with a headless chicken at the helm if that is all there is to read on this forum. This is obviously an exageration but is definately a concern.

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BEFORE YOU HIT REPLY
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ADG please dont type 'arsehole' and hit Submit. Infact, please do as no thread on the bunker is the same without it.

Everyone else please dont type the usual 'rose tinted spectacles' / 'I can pick a better team than Danny' / 'If he played Porter and Clark we'd have more points' / 'play people in their best positions' blah blah blah.

UNLESS you answer my question.

For anyone too lazy to scroll up or too dumb to remember the question here it is:-

What right do we have ...... to be promoted/in the play-offs?

And please give REASONS. Please convince us rose tinted spectacle Poolies.

offshore you git lol

I post a huge essay and you turn it on its head with a couple of lines.

Ok heres my arguement, reasons why we should not 'expect' promotion this season.

1. We are one of the smaller clubs in the division, we do not have a lot of money to spend meaning other teams in League One sign quality that we miss out on (Duffy, Graham)

2. Our average attendences are a fraction of certain clubs (Forsest/Leeds) and are way in the bottom half of the table. This restricts the wages we can play, and the players we can attract.

3. Our club is situated as Roy Keane astutely put it 'in the middle of no where'. This makes it difficult to attract players, since they often are not keen to move away from their family. Also many footballers would prefer to choose the likes of London than Hartlepool.

4. We have just been promoted from league two. Very few teams achieve consecutive promotions, often is the case that the step up from one division to another is simply too great to contemplate promotion.

5. Danny has introduced many new first teamers to the squad. Pools (in my opinion) often had the advantage of having a small dressing room of tight knit players, all of whom knew each other well, especially on the field. Knowing how someone plays is essential for a teams progression. The new first teamers need time to gel.

6. Our history. Never before have we been in the 2nd tier of football, at this current moment in time it is an unrealistic expectation.


There is 6 reasons for you (and everyone else). Now someone please give me the courtesy of a response that argues otherwise.

Nobodys suggesting that we have a divine right to reach the play offs, but does that mean that fans don't have the right to criticise poor performances or bad decisions?
We need to have a winning mentality, to say we are only a little club with not much money etc ect is a losing mentality and is the worst thing we can do. aim at nothing and you'll hit nothing*
And I think its incredibly daft to sugests that the players or managers confidence would be shattered by reading negative comments on here, they will hear a million times worse from fans during games.




*dial-a-cliche.

If fans say worse at games they are told they are a twat and they should sit down.

This happens even in the Cyril Knowles.


I see where your coming from with the winning mentality, you are totally right. If we become content with losing we are in serious trouble. Please believe I doubt anyone gets more pissed off when Pools lose than me.

But if you read my first post I clearly say I would not be surprised if we achieve a top 6 position. I didnt post this thread to persuade everyone to accept a crap performance, but unfortunately every team will experience them (including Arsenal today) there is little we as fans can do about them

I just want to hear a reasoned arguement about why we have the right to expect a top 6 position, perhaps there is not one.

Fair point

However my point about being a small club is that given the course of a season the team with the higher gates and larger wage bills, large transfer funds available will be able to assemble a bigger squad of quality players and over the course of a season be able to finish higher in the table.

BUT football is not black and white and you will find that smaller clubs do beat larger clubs 100% of the time

Not a flaw in my arguement, just I did not make that clear to begin with



So basically what your saying is that Wilson has fucked up thus far in the season, but is beginning to get it right? Well then lets get back behind our team, lets get the gates back up and start making some noise, lets support our team 'properly'.

If we can send that message out from the forum we would be doing something constructive.

We have no right

BUT over the last 8 (or so) years historys suggests we should have every expectation - with the exception of the Martin Scott period we were either in the playoffs or promoted automatically every year since (Ithink) 2000 - many fans just will not accept mediocrity & lets face it even the relegation season there was excitement, something to play for!!!!!!

A couple of reasons why we should expect play-offs

1. We've done it before with a much worse team in terms of quality during Cooper's first season in charge.
2. IOR are loaded and have backed the club by signing players on a good wage such as Robbie Elliott.
3. We are one of the most stable clubs in this division. Quite a lot of the clubs in this division are on unstable financial grounds, e.g. the Swindons and Lutons and Leeds.
4. I haven't seen a team that's made me go "wow" yet. None of the teams I've seen so far strikes me of having quality. The league is there for the taking.
5. We have some quality players in this team, James Brown, Gary Liddle, Ben Clark, Michael Nelson, Joel Porter...how many teams would LOVE to have those players?
6. Danny Wilson is the most backed manager in the history of the club.

Well said Mr Gaunt, with the squad we have we are under achieving. Although the teams in general are loads better than those in Division Four there are very few outstanding teams. it is frustrating that other teams seem more tactically aware than what we are, and that they are more organised. it is up to Wilson and his coaches to sort it out but we seem to be encountering the same probblems over and over again.

We don't have any right to promotion but i expect us to be performing close to our potential fairly consistantly which I don't believe we are......

LET'S GET DOWN TO BASICS. No club in it's right mind would unveil it's ambition for the coming season as avoiding relegation or mid table cosolidation, to do so would be to quite fairly attract criticism as having a losers/defeatist attitude. THEY HAVE TO BE AIMING FOR THE TOP EVEN IF WE ALL KNOW THAT THE POSSIBILITY IS UNLIKELY...IT'S CALLED HAVING A DREAM....OR WHAT'S THE POINT IN TURNING UP EACH WEEK AND PAYING GOOD MONEY....to watch us strive for 'consolidation' from the start?
I don't expect us to win the title, but I do expect us to try and have a f*****g go at it....as for luck, you make your own!!!

Some good points there chip....

However, who gives a fook about how much (or little) the season tickets are at Newcastle

They could give one to me for free and I would NEVER go and watch

I don't have any expectations regarding promotion or league position, the only expectation that I carry on a weekly basis is that the manager picks his best players to try and play good football and entertain me.

There have been too many occassions already this season where I don't think I've seen that happen.

Losing isn't a big disaster sometimes, just the manner of it.

I remember watching us play at home to QPR a couple of years ago and getting stuffed off a better team. I wasn't annoyed afterwards, I accepted how good they were and looked forward to our next game- cos I knew that in our next game we would knuckle down to trying to play good attacking football again and have a chance of winning.

This season I've seen too much negative stuff. Too many backwards and sideways passing followed by a lump forward to Barker. It doesn't fulfill my expectation of being entertained.

Why do you consider that to be dull?

The post at the top of this thread.

Surely you are basing your assessment of him being dull on the content of this (amongst other) posts?

Thats a fair post Boshpoolie. Credit to you but my argument goes like this. We have no right for promotion BUT we have players in the squad who ARE good enough for the play-offs yet we are not playing like a 'play-off' team. This is partly due to the managers baffling selections, tactics (lump it to barker) and players who need a kick up the backside. We have supposedly strengthened the squad since we got to cardiff (with the possible exception of Boydy - who we probably could have re-signed had we wanted to!) and the younger players should have gained valuable experience since then so IMHO we are underachieving right now.

I honestly think you could ask 90% of the people on this board to pick a better team than Danny does with the same squad and they could do so.

Oh , and I still think it was crazy not signing a recognised experienced goalkeeper to replace Dimi. I think this has been Danny's biggest clanger to date. All successful sides have a good goalkeeper, it is the key position in a team and we should not have signed 2 young inexperienced keepers.

Oh no it wasn't.

No we couldn't.

Not for free anyway.

Luton still owed us instalments on the transfer fee of several hundred thousand pounds which they wanted waiving if he rejoined us.

As he was under contract to them they were entitled to ask that.

OH NO IT WASN'T.

Lets not be kidding anybody here. Pools may well be a small club but to say they have a small budget is wide of the mark. Due to the huge investment by IOR in the last 8/9 seasons, Pools have punched above their weight. Big money has been spent on wages, big money has been spent on developing the youth system, big money has been lost year upon year, and anybody that disagrees is kidding themselves.

Even with IOR pumping money in, you obviously won't have the spending power of Leeds or Nottingham Forest....the differential in income per season between them and you would be too great for even IOR to bridge, but if I was a betting man I would say that you would be in the top half of L1 budget wise, and SHOULD therefore be pushing for the play offs each season. You can't be just happy to avoid relegation with the money that is spent each season.

You lost 900k last year didn't you? You don't lose that sort of money by keeping wages ultra tight.

You change your mind more often than my wife

I only eat sheek (from the Indian) or spicy tandoori chicken kebabs when sober. Donner kebabs without alcohol are vile. They are made from a specific recipe so that they are made to taste delicious when mixed with the alcohol coating your tongue, after a night out on the piss.
Otherwise you must never eat one.

Surely we've had all this out before, with Bosh?
Can only admire the folk who've bothered to give such reasoned replies to a totally ridiculous question

i dont reason with anyone just here for the fun of it
let the daft buggers reason all they want it wont make a blind bit of difference

The most important question must be who is the 25th club , where abouts are they in the league, they might pip us to a play off spot and that would be really unlucky