Because it's one of the loony list ofcock and bull reasons they used to justify their actions and will allow Putin to save face. It's also extra ridiculous as they actually caused NATO to expand.

No, it's all part of a political pissing contest which was encouraged by past US Presidents pushing for the expansion of NATO. And that's why Trump will give Putin the guarantee he wants as part of the peace deal.

It depends if you're gullible enough to believe it's all about NATO.

I'm sort of coming round to your logic now that I've bothered to consider it properly. Sorry about that.

If you're aware of a dick head that you can't do anything about then its frustrating but you have to employ dick head management and evasion tactics. Perhaps those tactics could have been better.

Never said its all about NATO, said its a factor whi h it clearly is.

Finland NATO member since 1994 borders Russia, never been invaded because that’s why a Russia are worried, maybe no gas or oil fields eh?

Nazis
Russian speakers being persecuted
Ukraine shouldn't exist as its Russia
NATO Missiles

These are some of the bollocks reasons Russia gave for their actions. They can't even keep their story consistent. They don't want Ukraine in NATO because they want to invade it in future, once they've had chance to reset.

Fair enough--and I am not defending Russia or saying Putin not an a hole---unfortunately you have to try and manage that as best you can and taht doesnt always provide the outcome you would like

Opposition parties are outlawed in Ukraine.
Independent media is banned
Russian language is forbidden.
Russian Orthodox Church expelled.
Zelensky is desperate to drag NATO into a world wide conflict. He’s dangerous and the sooner he is disposed of the better.

Thanks for expanding my list of Russian crap. I knew there was more to add to it.

No you definitely made that clear right at the start.

Finland joined NATO on the 4th of April 2023.

Trump seems to have really upset the applecart. This wasn’t expected despite him being so unpredictable. This was not predicted.
I can see the neocons sharpening their knives as we speak. Their future profits from arms sales taking a massive knock.
Don’t be surprised to see another JFK before the end of 25.

Is Trump deliberately trying to wind the Ukrainian people up to revolt against Zelensky or is too thick to realise it ?

I suspect there’s all sorts of twists and turns with this whole Ukrainian business and doubt we’ll ever get to the bottom of this.
The only positive is that is has shown that Russian forces (as in Afghanistan in 79) are not that good when it comes down to it.
There only saving card for them is their nuclear Arsenal face saver..

Most of Ukraine's industry, natural resources, industry and powerplants are in the occupied region, they are also lacking manpower; Russia on the other hand keeps growing economically, has a massive armament industry and is overall not doing that bad. If you ask me the West can partially slow the russian advance, but without direct conflict (which no one wants really) there isn't much they can do, especially if Russia's ties with China and North Korea remain solid.

before russia invaded it that was what we got from our media but never mentioned after the first shot was fired. it was poor little ukraine fuelled by peoples irrational fear of anything russian.

Must’ve been application to EU membership, strange the tanks didn’t head their way given it was so recent.

I agree. The propaganda machine has been in over drive the past 3 years. If people looked beyond the mainstream media they’d soon realise the true extent of why this is happening.
I’m unsure of Trumps motives in relation to his relationship with Putin but if it stops the world being dragged into a 3rd world war then I’m on his side.
In contrast to NATO (especially the UK and France) who seem intent on prolonging this war even longer.

funny if there is a chance of having a scrap somewhere in the world the uk would be in favour of it even with a small armed force. goodness knows what would happen if the other country thats unpopular argentina invaded that bastion of democracy chile.

Mr Harris , the 11 banned parties happened when Russia invaded as they supported Russia. There are over 300 parties alttogether so to say there is no opposition is a simp!e analysis to say the least. They're at war for God's sake !

I think you've totally got the wrong country mate.

We've got a free press that loves a good scandal, especially involving the government, it makes them loads of money, the tories earned them a fortune and Labour is going the same way. They're not forced to trot out what the state tells them. There ARE such countries out there which have state controlled press (can you guess which?) It's disappointing to hear anyone swallowing that nonsense hook line and sinker and trotting it out again.

I world recommend broadening your sources but would advise stayng away from flat Earth bat shit conspiracy sites just for the sake of finding contradictory views to the mainstream. I world say that the thousands of news sources across the world failing to reporting this as a scandal is a sure fire sign that there just isn't one to report.

Putin.

Strategically important, Just like Greenland.
Trump sees an imbalance, Maybe Putin too.

They're all contributory to the war weather we think it's bollocks or not, as is Putins ego, and the fact that Zelensky is not aligned with Russia, and various other issues. But undoubtedly the West's reaction has been contributory to it going on for 3 years, supplying money and munitions but barely a whisper of the word "peace".
It's costing hundreds of thousands of lives and billions to fight an unwinnable war. Jaw Jaw not war war. Thankfully Trump and Putin are not personally conducting the talks and Trump really should listen to his advisors briefings instead of shooting from the lip.

In your opinion.

It's no good if the jaw Jaw is just about concessions to Russia.

I listen to well respected sources. Ever since the overthrow of Viktor Yanukovych there has been 3 proposals put to Ukraine to end the war. All flatly refused, not solely due to Zelensky but Witt interference from the USA and other western factors.
Russia has just taken another large piece of Kursk. It won’t be long before it’s all back in Russia’s hands.
Whatever you or I believe Russia are well on course to win the war. A proportion of Ukraine had been flattened and there’s absolutely no way back for the failed comedian.
Better to settle now before as Trump has suggested, there’ll be no country left.

The concessions will have to be made. The USA are withdrawing money and the west can’t afford to provide anymore.
If Zelensky had any morals he’d surrender now. At least to save the lives of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.
It’s game over.

Yeh
Ukraine and Europe especially are all mouth and no trousers---if Europe says all the right things but when it comes to putting their hands in their pockets it all goes quiet.

Why should the americans be footing around half the bill themselves for something that is 1000s of miles away?--I also don't think supporting Ukraine indefinitely is a popular position in Europe if it means their own people quality of life suffering with more taxes and more money directed away from in country services and onto some never ending War in Ukraine.

A lot of people talking a good game, lets see what they do now the US have called their bluff and said you pay for it !

Lot of truth in this that people dont want to hear--the last US admin absolutely used Ukraine as a proxy war with Russia---as ever its regular people on both sides of teh conflict who suffer

You're officially off your head talking about anybody 's scruples other than Adolf Putler.

Europe should be standing up for themselves. Ukraine at least have an excuse. Broken promises.

Well respected sources? Them how come you seem so ill informed?

Irrational? Obviously you missed quite a bit of news about their antics pre 2022.

A lot of this stems from Clinton's disbelief about losing to Trump in 2016 and then subsequently trying to link him to Russia to attempt to undermine his authority--apparently a couple of hundred grand on facebook altered the election .....and lets not even get into how the US influences other countries election (they designed and funded an entire social media platform in Cuba ffs)
US relationship with Russia went down from there.

More than 1 thing can be true--did Ukraine have a significant neo-Nazi element?-Yes absolutely----was that in anyway the reason Russia invaded--no of course not.
People need to stop thinking of Ukraine as a monolith--its a complex country with different element--a significant chunk do want to be Russian--not that it justifies invading etc but there was a lot of shit going on their prior--it wasnt the Ukrainian people holding hands in the meadows and giving each other sunflower bouquets!

I reckon Czechoslovakia might not have seen it that way...

No they're not perfect, but there are no more Nazis than Russia or anywhere else. There's still night and day between the conduct of the two countries and their leaders.

Jeffrey Sachs
Douglas McGregor
Daniel Davis
To name but a few…..

So commentators then? All republicans. No wonder you've got such an inbalance.

Are they republicans?
I just understand that they speak the truth. I think you’ll find it’s republicans like Lindsay Graham who are pushing to prolong this war.

Obama said Ukraine was important to Russia but not to the US when asked about them joining Nato.....was he a Republican then?

No that's not what I was getting at.

I was wondering what kind of pseudo expert would influence someone into more readily criticising Zelensky ( the guy whose country got invaded by folk declaring that it shouldn't exist, bombing his citizens, filling mass graves) than Putin who ordered it all and sends his own people to die in meat waves. Sounds like he needs to listen to something more agenda free.

Meat Waves? If Putin ordered his troops in meat waves the war would have been over for Ukraine a long time ago.
Putin is playing a patient game. Which, inevitably he’s going to win.
He’s also going to get a good deal within the forthcoming peace talks. No NATO. No peacekeepers.
The deal will also include the 4 oblasts. Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhia. Plus the already annexed Crimea.

Your experts don't mention meat waves? Oops.

I dont blame Zelensky for this but the West and the US bear a lot of responsibility--Russia - even pre Putin have consistently said dont go there when it comes to Ukraine and Nato/West expansion that's been their position for 30 years+ and we tried to call their bluff--Whether you think it was a reasonable position or not (and I can see their point in not wanting to be surrounded by a group of countries who consistently say they want to reshape them) its not like the West wasn't warned--
Again doesn't make what Russia did correct--but whenever anyone on TV or the media refers to the invasion as 'completely unprovoked' i know they are just parroting a line they either dont believe or are too brainwashed to question themselves.

From 'Time Magazine' a couple of years ago--hardly a right wing propaganda piece

https://time.com/6141806/russia-ukraine-threats/

I don’t think anyone has the full facts on this clash.
I suspect the driving force behind this ‘expansion’ eastward is not NATO, but the EU.
But as most larger EU players like Germany have declined Starmer and Macrons cry for European military adventurism , the various viewpoints will create a stalemate.

Russia is a "global power" and the U.S. has to communicate.
Weren’t we just told for years that Russia could be isolated into submission?
Russia was never weak, People underestimated its resilience, its economic adaptability, and most of all, its ability to outmaneuver the West’s short-term thinking.
The U.S. thought cutting Russia out of SWIFT would bring its economy to its knees, Russia responded by strengthening its ties with China, India, the Gulf, and Africa, boosting trade in non-dollar currencies, and expanding BRICS.
They thought sanctions would break Moscow, Russia ended up producing more weapons, energy, and food than ever before… Even Europe, which was supposed to be leading the charge against Russia, is quietly buying Russian gas through backdoor deals.
And the military reality. The U.S. dumped $100+ billion into Ukraine, promising to “weaken Russia,” only to watch Ukraine’s counteroffensive fail while Russia took more territory than it lost… So now, all of a sudden, the tune is changing.
We need dialogue.

The west have been buying trillions of dollars worth of oil and gas from Russia enabling them to fuel their war chest

suspect we were always having some trade with germany before both world wars started both ways as well.