A fair point, situations aren't black and white are they. For all that though, and every country has its history, I find it hard for someone to argue that in this day and age internationally recognise borders are up for debate. I recognise the double standards though - sticking up for Ukraine but ignoring similar things in Africa for instance.

The Russians took horrendous losses compared to us and the Americans in WW2 and incidentally the Ukrainians actually welcomed the Germans arrival but had some justification since Stalin killed 3 million there after getting rid of the farmers and letting the state bugger it up.
Take an interest in what conflicts could affect you but let the rest get on with it…war is like the poor and will always be with us.

one thing about war is many profit out of it. poverty only makes many others poorer in the end.

Where do I start!? There referendums in Donbas in 2014 and 2022 were not independent.

Nobody says that Russia didn't do a lot to oust Nazi Germany. It's not particularly relevant to this conflict. Just as those that dug and filed the mass graves in Irpin and Bucha don't taint the achievements of those brave Russians in WW2.

Every country has problems with the far right, including Russia. The Nazi thing is straight out of the propaganda book.

If you believe we can just tootle on unaffected by a war virtually on our European doorstep then there are some harsh lessons coming if we don't continue to stand strong.

When Britain declared war on Germany, Hitler was actually shocked because his pompous Foreign Minister Ribbentrop told him he knew Britain as he was an ex ambassador there and said Britain would not intervene.
Hitler was furious, called him in and said …’What now?’
So when the unexpected happens and a tactical battlefield nuclear weapon goes off I’ll ask you the same question.

Better than I could have put it.

a difficult question to answer because we have not got a look into the future. putin for a start will not be around for ever and a new leader could have a different stance on the subject or outdo putin. i,d say attempting to be a world peacemaker without being an appeaser would go down better with future generations than one seen as fanning the flames.

So the separatist groups in Donbas never really existed then? Parts of Donbas were actually controlled by separatist groups with Russian support. Many who lived in Donbas wanted the region to be part of the Russian federation rather than Ukrainian.
There's no way this conflict will end without borders being reset and it's futile to fight to stop that.
Interesting that the majority of Western countries are waiting for the US to resolve this, what are Ukraines near neighbours doing? Bearing in mind that Ukraine are on a fast track to EU membership you'd expect a concerted effort from them, yet the facts are that the member states are acting independently and in their own insular interests. Thank f*ck we left that institution, they'll sort out the shape of your bananas faster than any conflict. We should have stayed in the single market mind.

I agree

BINGO!!! Got the Full House on Brexit BINGO aswell!!!

Well said.

I didn't say the separatist groups didn't exist. Their existance however isn't an indication of how much support they had. Nor is it connected in any way to whether referendums were independent or not. All we have to go on is what the Russians say regarding the results so...oh dear. Multiple channels stating the votes were a farce.

The support from Ukraines neighbours has been very strong, even Hungary chipped in. Theyve all historically been strong NATO contributers.

There is a reason most of Europe has been supportive (apart from a couple of Putins mates) because despite the differences between national outlooks, it's a no brainer to support Ukraine. Even the two biggest UK political parties thought the same way on this matter and that is very notable considering their rivalry.

Time will tell, as both US missiles and our storm Shadow missiles have been launched.

I really don't care what President Trump says, as I judge folk by their actions and not their words.

And during the World's best comb-over's last stint in charge, he didn't start a single armed-conflict.

I'm delighted that someone who despises war is in charge of the USA - and long may the daft twat continue...

Spot on, like most politicians he'll say what people want to hear to get elected. His actions will I suspect be measured unless Putin is daft enough to make a direct attack on US bases or personnel.
Likewise his tariffs will be strategic and in the US interests regardless of international relationships (special or not).

Wonder if Uncle Joe escaped from his ‘suite’ and started pressing buttons randomly and the file for using missiles was despatched in mistake for his order for the Betamax tape of the ‘Three Stooges’…..?

be different to our last general election when our present pm got elected for saying nothing.

I see Trump pick Matt Gaetz didn’t get far. Am interested what the Trump fans think - was it that the media/establishment/mainstream blocked Trump or because Gaetz was a massive nonce?
Also, is it an issue for anyone that Trump is cool with noncy blokes being in charge of stuff?
Make America Great Again!

Admit it, you fancy him don’t you, you tinker…..obsessed is the word you’re looking for.
Well, not for me, but….. whatever floats your boat.
Your secrets safe

Insightful take.
You say obsessed but I have noticed you’re quick to jump on anything I post. Should I be worried?

I jump on all the daft ones…. so you qualify.
I don’t know what you see in him though

Anyone who thinks PUTIN s Nukes are just for show. Wise up.

They ready to launch and can travel long distances without interception.
Big mistake the UK getting him in launch mode.

Probably London first.

Why should Putin feel aggrieved by the support Ukraine is receiving from the West, he has recruited North Korean Soldiers and is being supplied armaments from Iran.

Starmer and Biden..What a time to have both them feckin loose cannon idiots in power eh

Because he’s Putin.

I've noticed that aswell.

Another case of two wrongs not making a right. like everything whats going on we only hear one side of the argument and nothing from the opposite side for us to make a real decision for ourselves.

And….

What if doing nothing is a wrong?

I honestly believe ex KGB Officer Putin doesn’t see things like the average reasonable person. There’s the problem.

Just pointing out I've noticed it.
BTW...have you got fleas? You seem to be doing a lot of scratching lately.

Just doing what you do all the time, what’s different..?

Teesside would probably be the first place.

Bravo Accy

A nuke on Teesside would cause some serious improvement.

Especially Port Clarence

Eh??

Eh?? [/quote]

Scratching

Now, now young man, you know quite well what I’m referring to. ……..

Eh...less of the young.

This retirement stuff is great…..suddenly you have nobody with power over you and you wake up one morning and realise you can do just what the hell you like…within reason
Mind you some people never wake up and think like that, in fact most people don’t.

What would you like to hear and from which side? Surely you don't want more ridiculous Russian propaganda?

It's mostly spin and propaganda from every side, up to us to make our minds up individually.
The war is hopefully moving towards a negotiated peace in the coming months. Unless of course Mad Vlad or equally Mad Joe decides to take it up a notch or two in his final days in office.

Roll on January when Trump gets the keys to the White House.I can see a few arses getting kicked...When The Don speaks the rest of the World listens.. Bring on the orange glow!!Team MAGA!!

There's going to be huge rebuilding required in Ukraine and Gaza and I'm sure Donald will want to make sure US firms are preferred bidders for the work.

100% agree

actually thought that had happened on stockton high street for a start.