The Poolie Bunker

I think there's an amount which has to be deposited with the NL, but I don't think it would cover the running costs for a year. Having said that clubs have gone into Administration mid season plenty of times before so it wouldn't be a guarantee of a full seasons funding. Wasn't the vote before the deadline anyway?
Bottom line is can anyone second guess what Raj will do next?
If he'd ceased funding but retained ownership, which was the scenario in a No vote who knows where we'd be, I didn't want to find out.
Bottom line is regardless of if you voted yes, or you're a boycotter, we're all Pools supporters doing what we think is best for the club not the owner.

Owning the club but not funding it would surely mean no club…..what purpose would that serve ..l?
Sometimes the best option on offer is still a shit option……a bit like offering the option of being shot or hanged, ultimately the outcome is the same.
Sometimes in life you have to make a stand and a sacrifice, instead of being grateful for small ‘mercies’…..

And sometimes a shit offer is better than no offer.
And sometimes you cling on till your last breath just to survive.
And I firmly believe we're better off now than with a points deduction for Administration at best, or liquidated with no club at worst.
At the end of the day are we any worse off today than the day Raj bought the club? League position is about the same but the wolves aren't at the door today?
Biggest mystery is why a takeover didn't happen considering there were at least 2 parties announced by the Interim Board to have agreed the asking price?

Clinging to the wreckage is not the answer…..if there’s no one to rescue you, you have to make a decision to cling on or strike out…..both are a gamble….but the ‘wreckage’ is going nowhere.

I have been told owning a football club is a "Big Deal" in the Asian community.

I find it bizarre how many people would prefer to meekly accept this situation instead of saying enough is enough. It perfectly sums up this country at the moment, going down with a whimper. Snowy's analogy rings true, doing nothing feels safe, but inaction can lead to a demise as much, if not more than action that seems drastic. Nothing is guaranteed, but I personally would feel better knowing we fought like hell for the chance of an optimistic future, instead of allowing ourselves to slowly die, hoping mercy comes from a guy we know we can't trust. The world is a sandbox full of infinite possibilities and choices. Doing nothing and accepting the status quo is a choice, it is simply the lamest and most cowardly of all of them.

Was agreeing with you until...............

How do you know that there are no wolves at the door?

As to the mystery - I agree with you but isn't it fascinating that there has been no leak/ comment from either party?

How do we gain access to the "Sandbox"

I don't, but I guess I'm just an optimistic risk taker. Even if all else fails, a phoenix club is not the end of the world to me, in fact it would be quite exciting. We certainly feel damned if we don't atm, to me that only leaves do.

We all have access to it. It reminds me of people at work who are clearly miserable but stay in the same situation for 30 years. Completely self inflicted. And why? Because the unknown is scary and the misery is somehow more comfortable. The thing is, if you hate your situation, all trying something new does is at best improve your situation or at worst move you to another bad situation. So a net positive at best or a net neutral at worst.

especially if it has a corner flag building like we have. reminds them of there first big deal in the country, the corner shop.

Also yes, it is fascinating that there has been no leak/comment. I had a lot of hope re Shelley, oh well.

You say doing nothing and accepting the status quo is a choice. Then you effectively call people cowards for adopting that choice.
Coward is a strong word, it used to be used to shoot people at dawn.
How people react to circumstance is their choice and they are entitled to it, never let frustration or anger get in the way of that.
Come up with a plan that is effective in winning this fight you want to undertake and maybe these cowards you refer to will climb on board.
All that has been achieved so far is the grand total of SFA EXCEPT the division amongst the fans has become such that it is causing words like coward to be used against fellow poolies.

It absolutely is a choice, by every single one of us. My goal isn't to insult any particular person or group of fans, but if people want to get hung up or offended by my use of the word coward, again, that perfectly sums up this country at the moment. My gripe isn't with fans, it's with Raj and the club, and it's not like I have done anything more than deny the club my patronage since the summer at this time. I am more concerned with the division in ACTIONS rather than words. If 75%+ of the fan base would commit to not attending games, it would send a powerful message. If protests were held, I would attend and it would send a powerful message. Not just to Raj, but to the wider football community, that we actually care. I just feel that crowds slowly declining and us putting up no real fight is not the way. And why would anyone want to invest in a seemingly apathetic fan base. Also, if we do go gently into the night, I think a lot of people are going to have a lot of regrets. A lot of coulda, woulda, shoulda. Right now, we still can.

Can a Supporters Trust force a sale of a football club? Not directly!
Maybe they can exert pressure on the owner by organising protests, boycotts, etc.
I think we have something legal in place on the stadium as a community asset?
So yes we can do something about it but the fans must stand together on this one.

This is an absolutely mental thought, but hear me out... Could the council lease The Vic to the HUST for a time, instead of HUFC? From there HUST could effectively not allow the club under Raj Singh to play home games there.

He'd probably ask Boro if they could use the Riverside? Imagine how that would look though. Your own fan base locking you out of your ground. And we all know how much he cares about optics. Coughs, North Korean propaganda film in the summer. A couple of thousand organised people hold more power than one modestly rich, and sometimes seemingly not very bright Raj Singh and his even less bright advisers.

Depends on what is in the lease? The terms and conditions etc. Can HUST obtain a copy of the lease between the council and HUFC?
It is publicly available or is a freedom of information request required?
I doubt very much what you say is an option but getting hold of the lease could be an interesting read.

Found this:

https://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/downloads ... ufc-ground

70 year lease from 1997.

We could try and buy the land from the council. IOR tried before I think way back in 2010.

A bit of history behind the lease:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/tees/hi/peo ... 964237.stm

Very interesting! As I say, mental idea. I just think these are the types of questions we should be asking and actions we should be considering.

Confucius say:

"Don,t blame the Clown for acting like a Clown
Ask yourself why you keep going to the Circus"

Yes the fans must stand together but calling fellow fans cowards ain't gonna unite anybody. Like I say somebody has to come up with something that's gonna work, THAT EVERYBODY BUYS IN TO. We all know what needs to be done but all we have is a suggestion to effectively starve the owner out. Part two of that suggestion is to get all the fans who aren't currently joining in the starving out process to actually join in. I already don't go so what more can I do.

As for wolves at the door, as far as we know there aren't any......not yet. Bills are being paid, wages are being paid. If they weren't I'm sure we would know about it.
As for the Trust I would like them to show some sort of lead but they are so far appearing to keep their powder dry. Maybe they don't want to see the club go bust either.
Those who don't go have made their choice, those who are still going have made theirs. We all have to unite behind one banner with one purpose, who is going to drive that forward.

Regarding the ground.
Labour has cancelled elections to accommodate a change in local Government towards much larger authorities within two years.
Within two years our destiny regarding the Vic could be goodnight to Hartlepool Council and be in the loving hands of a larger Teeside based authority, so any decisions about the Vic would me made in Middlesbrough and we’ll be a place on the far edge of things.

Approach the council and see their response then you'll have your answer if it is possible or not.

As the supporters trust have recently applied to keep the ground as a community asset, could whoever dealt with the council put forward that question?

As things stand there is zero prospect that HUST would "effectively not allow the club under Raj Singh to play home games there" even if they had the power to do so.

I doubt that there's a single HUST member who doesn't want Raj to step aside, but for now he still gets to choose when and how that happens.

Pools are a club in crisis - a situation that is entirely of the current owner's own making. In the last 6 months Raj has announced that he will stop funding the club, then reversed that decision with the farce of a partial 'fan vote,' then upset the applecart all over again by sacking yet another manager on a whim.

It's a mess, and anyone's guess how this season ends. But until and unless Raj does a Morecambe (stops paying the wages of players and staff ) or a Blackburn (gets a winding up order served by HMRC) don't expect HUST to start a fans revolution.

As Raj was very particular about potential owners having the funds to support the financial running of HUFC, I doubt very much he will stop funding the club, as then he will fail his own condition. I reckon Raj will continue to put money into the club, which I believe he is lending to HUFC via another company. A loan that will be an outstanding debt when the club is sold. Something that I strongly disagree, Raj should not expect to get back the money he has put in running HUFC, but that is what he is doing and to the best of my knowedge insisting upon when the club is sold.
So the debt will just add up and Pools will spiral down the league as costs are kept to just ticking the club over.
Unless Raj sells the club for a fair price, we are stuck with him!
And there is nothing we can do, except voice our opinion in a sensible way.

I was under the gormless impression that buying a football club at this level is not conducive to generating wealth.

His company Clarence 18 owe the debt although they are subsidiary of The Prestige Group, no idea how that works although Pools were a subsidiary of IOR I believe registered in some non tax haven.
From the OS,Hartlepool United Football Club Limited is 99.6% owned by Clarence 18 Ltd, of which Sukhraj Singh holds the controlling interest.

Now call me a silly old cynic, but….I thought those who bought a football club at this level did it for the prestige and glory, but never to let it chug along busy going nowhere and constantly changing the Captain and crew to the absolute puzzlement and frustration of the supporters, because that’s how it looks to everybody.
If there’s an alternative route to glory being pursued, that is beyond the understanding and bafflement of the humble supporter. so much so that they cannot work out or comprehend the complexity of the alternative route to glory, please send us a post card with a hint of how it works, because we haven’t got a clue,
Or is there another reason too depressing to comprehend…?

problem is fans do not really have a leader for us to follow. can easily remember protests from fans at brighton, doncaster, stockport and a good chance of plenty of others that helped change within their clubs. sitting on our hands and posting views on here will not change a single thing. there are a couple of things business people do not like its losing money and bad publicity that could affect there day jobs. we need to do some actions that make us look the good guys and not just a rabble that could easily happen.

With the Hartlepool Mail and Radio Tees banned from the ground, how about Robbie Stelling, giving the fans some publicity where we can organise a boycott of say one of the home games coming up. Would certainly send a clear message to Raj!

add to that a march through town with flags that ends up outside the vic once the gates are open.

Yes he needs to go but by intimidating him won’t help the cause, he will dig his heels in and put Pools into administration just to show who holds reins, he won’t lose any sleep over that.

How about Raj becomes prime minister, and Starmer buys Pools.

If that happens Raj's promises will pale into insignificance.

I don’t think he would…simple as that…if he was going to do it, it would have happened long before now.

I don't think he will either. Unlike the loids we only have a peppercorn rent on the ground. Their downfall and what was always going to do for them eventually was the millstone of Gorgeous George's Echo Chamber.

think he,d go today if some fool offered him some money he could not refuse. he is not hanging about for his love of pools and going the extra mile.

I don't think he can really be intimidated, but I'm all for making things as uncomfortable as possible for him, as he's had no problem doing to us. I do think in order to put pressure on him we need to come to terms with the fact that we may lose this club and have to start again. I am of the same opinion as Snowy, I don't think he'll simply pull the plug as he is a greedy, greedy man who we know at the very least cares about money.

In a landscape where we don't fear starting again and he has a lot of money to lose, I think all of a sudden we hold a lot of power and a lot of moves become available to us. As long as we continue to fear his retaliation, he can do whatever he likes.

If he doesn't pull the plug how do we arrive at losing the club and starting again.

We don't, which would be great, but I think a lot of fans are operating in fear that he will. I personally don't think he will, but it would be irresponsible and dishonest to not acknowledge that it's possible that I'm wrong. I would be willing to call his bluff, and in the worst case scenario where I'm wrong, I would be willing to start again and be done with this situation. Our own fear of the repercussions is holding us hostage. We can't control Raj Singh, we can only control what we choose to do as a fan base.

Any action we take carries risk, it's the same with inaction though. I would find it easier to live with us being bold and failing, than doing nothing and allowing the apathy to grow and Pools to slowly go out with a whimper.

Which 'we' are you on about? The dozen on this thread or the 3,000 (give or take) who'll be at the game on Saturday?

So you don't think Raj will pull the plug but you prefer to lose the club in favour of a restart but that "phoenix" scenario probably depends on Raj pulling the plug. You can't have one without the other. If Raj doesn't pull the plug and the general opinion is he doesn't want to sell and seeing his current position is one of keeping the club ticking over, we are stuck in the same groove and therefore no further forward. I thought you might have something but it seems you are going round in the same circles as the rest of us. Pity like.
So far it appears that the 3000 or so current attendees aren't prepared to starve themselves of their footy fix in favour of starving Raj out.
That's the problem facing the success or otherwise of your plan. Get working on them. You are working against the clock because if Fevs or AN OTHER start improving our results, your chances will suffer a pretty hard blow but best of luck my friend.

Speaking of numbers...

Average Home Attendances:
2023/2024 - 4,100
2024/2025 - 3,800
2025/2026 - 3,300

-800 in just over 2 seasons. Not a trend we can afford to continue for too long, and one that is accelerating. I also don't think that everyone who is still going is necessarily against some sort of action being taken. I used the words "dwindling" and "apathy" earlier. I think this illustrates that pretty well. I guess we could wait, and in a few seasons there'll be nobody left who cares that we've lost our club. Win win right?

I should say that these attendances are based on the following league table finishes:
2023/2024 - 12th
2024/2025 - 11th
2025/2026 - 10th (currently)

So our decline does not seem directly tied to performance. I think the chance of any meaningful change in fortune on the pitch is very low. This is not because I'm a pessimist, it's just that the managerial decisions have been extremely erratic. Genuine question, how many of us think Grayson should have gone?

There was no call from the fans for Grayson to go, I believe.
That decision has irked me a lot, there was no reason given why, expect no win in 11 or whatever but I said at the time, the board wheeled that excuse out to cover the real reason which we will never ever find out.

Strange right? How about signing him in the first place? Also kind of strange. How about getting rid of Limbrick? Also odd given context. My point being Any kind of upturn in form in an environment like that is out of pure luck and won't last. We have saboteurs making the decisions lol. Seeing Dieseruvwe whack goals in every week for Rochdale makes me feel sick. On yet another note, how much money does the club owe to all these managers in compensation? We are having the piss taken out of us. The we that I'm talking about? Me, you, the 3,000 that are still going and the hundreds that no longer are.