Government announce a ‘bus revolution’ by taking them back under public control.
About time too.

So Stagecoach would still run the buses but the local authorities would decide the time tables ?

From what I understand, the local authority decides the routes and timetables and if London rules are applied ( which was the only place never de-regulated in 1985) be able to specify the vehicles as well and the whole package put out to tender, so not necessarily Stagecoach.
The last new buses Stagecoach bought for Hartlepool was in 2008 and some ‘new’ buses recently received are 20 years old……did they expect this to happen….?

Privatisation of every public service has been an unmitigated disaster for consumers, higher and higher costs and poorer and poorer services as the drive to increase shareholder profits prevailed. Meanwhile governments of both parties failed to do anything about it.
I can remember back in the day getting a bus back to the headland after games there being queues of buses at the old bus station ensuring everyone got home, nowadays you can't get a bus after a night game. Yet they want us to give up our cars - yeah right.

If they want us to give up our cars they’d better get their act together big time, but I some how doubt they will.
The Tories deregulated the buses in 85 and buggered everything up…yet successive governments including Labour did nowt.
Come on Mr Starmer, show us what you intend to do.

it will be fine unless the operater requires a council subsidy to pay for loss making routes they want them to run. Once it was cross subsidation where the money making routes subsidised the loss makers and local authorities were mainly interested in a brek even figure. stagecoach and the like just want increased profits and this aint going to work with them running the show.

If we are so stupid as to give up our cars we may aswell help them put the concrete bollards up in our streets and fast track the 15 minute prisons. The buses are far from perfect but the real reason for Starmer improving the buses is to improve his wish to take our cars away and leave the motorways to the rich and famous. Never trust a politician they only ever lie.

thats nearly 40 years of buggered up buses which for the vast majority its been something they have always known. will people rush to get back onto a bus after avoiding them if they can. My step daughter and her mates would rather hire a taxi to take em down town than get a free ride off me in my leyland leopard. they talk about getting us out of our cars as if it was back in 1930 when only the rich owned them unlike today where a family of 4 will have 4 driving licences if not the same number of cars. they can attempt to price us off the road but people will do everything in their power to carry on driving no matter hat crap they,ll throw at us even if they hate doing it.

Totally agree with your general point about privatisation but some bus services were run by private operators. As a kid in the 1960s my bus to Hartlepool was the TMS (Trimdon Motor Services) - started in 1926 and never nationalised, but swallowed up by the privatised United in 1990.

they are not 15 minute prisons but just making your journey longer. the concrete bollards stop buses entering as well which is no help for the old or disabled getting to a bus stop with even further to walk.

the whole of the NE had a long tradition of private bus owners but most were bought out before privatisation anyway when passenger numbers started to drop. unless they are bus enthusiasts i doubt anyone under 40 remembers TMS and others before them. De regulisation was meant to create competition but only made the bigger firms bigger but cost them heavily in buy outs that would not previously have happened. there were many real cowboys buying up old vehicles to compete on the busy routes but their lives were very short.

How would they decide the routes, there wouldn’t be a service to get everyone to their place of work, can you imagine people walking to and waiting at bus stops in dreary wet cold weather waiting for a bus, not going to happen.
Even if the Council decide the routes and the times the bus operators could say no but we could if you subsidise us.

which is the situation now. again where is the magic money tree going to come from for councils to go back to a 1960,s type of bus service unless they do that or buy stagecoach out in the area and either buy their vehicles or a new fleet. they might get government grants but we,d be the ones having to pay for something that many would avoid like the plague. same for those who want a nationalised railway. somebody already running the service need compensation for their loss before anything starts up.

I am referring to the plan to make us all live in 15 minute zones not the bus routes. Each town / City is going to be made into 15 minute zones ( prisons )

They are gonna make it difficult to drive your car, regs tightened up, harder MOT’s etc, we’re going backwards.
So they have to have an alternative, which is where they will fail miserably.

know you are, but nowhere does it ever say you cannot get out of your zone even though they are making it more difficult to do so. For example if you lived in owton manor and want to go to the headland you,d have to drive back to a A19, up that and drop down to the headland the first exit you can use.

Fair enough Accy But I reckon it will be a hell of a lot worse bit by bit until we are foooooked.

Back in the day we had United and Corporation buses, weren't the Corporation local authority ran?

Did ya go upstairs on the double Decker at the front.
The good old days.
Donkey transport on Seaton beach as well.
Nice.

Yeah stamped like f*ck on the floor above the drivers head and then changed seats before he could come and knock shit out of us.

Yes the Corporation buses were run by the Council. After deregulation it became a lot more difficult to compete against the big boys.and Darlington’s Corporation buses found Stagecoach appearing in town with their buses duplicating the Corporation routes but doing it for free. The Darlington Corporation business soon collapsed. Then Stagecoach started charging.

Yes thats my understanding too. Ask anyone who has this system and they think its good.
When it was agreed in Manchester everyone was happy, customers, council, mayor, bus companies, etc etc. Its the model for the future.

It’s what they do in London, the buses are painted in the livery of London Transport and the company’s tender for specific areas of London eg East London for a fixed period, though this can be terminated if the chosen bus company fails to meet the contracts conditions.

Yes true.
I read an article that stated that Stagecoach in Manchester tried via the courts to stop it, they failed. But now they are happy with the arrangement as its a steady income stream with no revenue risks.

I think it’s a win win scenario, the operator just has to fulfil the given contract with no responsibility for fares and route management.

Therefore councils could be subsidising the bus companies, it would mean setting up a department initially to decide the routes then monitor them all paid from our Council Tax ?
With the majority of people using cars I can’t see the electorate being too pleased about that ?

They won’t be subsidising the bus companies.
The job lot will go out to tender and the most financially attractive bid will win the contract, the bus company’s will be on a leash, like they were pre deregulation and in return will have a monopoly of routes at a price.
As for the majority of people using cars, Net Zero will be making driving a lot more expensive because the nutters in charge want a lot less cars to fulfil their environmental wet dreams.

the councils may have to subsidise the routes where they want to run one but there are no takers. public transport will never work when run by a private company unless we are priced off the road ourselves. even then in a place like hartlepool you,ll see more cycling again for those who live local to their jobs. i certainly feel that in the future people will be looking for work closer to home rather than a long commute that has never been ideal for public transport. that will create yet another problem as local jobs do not exist anymore in the numbers there were previously anywhere in the country. how will their green loving policies going to work then as in my lifetime there has always been some localish places more difficult to get to by public transport than others. its a situation that makes old age quite a bonus now.

Let’s be honest, bus management run the buses for their convenience……when the corporation introduced one man buses it must have gradually affected passenger numbers…longer journey times and having to stand at busy times pisses people off and those who can, vote with their feet.

The Council decide on the bus routes and timetables, what happens if there are no takers as they see it as a loss making exercise ?

Were TMS something to do with Zebra holidays, who did hols to Spain.

There will be it makes economic sense for everyone.

Zebra was a subsidiary of TMS.

Works everywhere else, why the negativity

Being realistic Snowy, we are talking Hartlepool not Manchester or London where you can actually get to your place of work on public transport. If you work in Stockton, Middlesbrough or any of the 2 hospitals a bus might get you there but how long would it take. My ex worked between Hartlepool and North Tees, they provided staff transport as there was no suitable public transport.The NHS provide a shuttle bus, I have used it for patients and visitors between the 2 hospitals but the last one leaves North Tees at 5pm.
No bus company is going to operate if they are not making money are they ?

Seriously Jamie I’m driving round town all day and there’s plenty using the buses from what I see, but privatising the buses made it a bus business and not a bus service with constant rises when Stagecoach took over here unlike when the Councils ran them to break even and cross subsidise services, the profit line never became the target but providing a service that financed itself..
One fly in the ointment is Councils nowadays are top heavy with admin, a lot of whom haven’t got a clue on the the practicalities of running most services.

again like with the trains this is a british disease unlike on the continent where everything has to make a profit. Just wonder what those who holiday here from europe think about our fares for transport and the 3rd class service given by both forms of public transport.

the only company i have worked for who got it even close to being right was west midlands travel who became privatised but still ran services as the council did but saved on being top heavy with council employed non revenue earners from office staff to inspectors.

one man operation was alongside more car ownership was the death of the industry as we knew it. even back in the early 50,s when it was introduced companies knew there would be a reaction from passengers and they,d lose a percentage due to its introduction. it was not nostalgia for the conductors that varied in friendliness but the unreliability of the service provided where the ability of the driver to issue tickets and give out change varied much more than before. some like me had a real easy time as we were quicker than most both on fare collection and driving catching the bus up infront who was running late and the one behind being extra busy because of this. on busy routes away from the rural ones it became a farce but companies were prepared for this to go on.

Just seen this on Arsebook which looks like a proposal to adopt the Manchester (Bee) model on Teesside.
This is normally a thing for the regional mayor so i get the impression that Ben Houchen is being sidelined.

***Taking back our buses and flat £2 fares***
Together with my fellow re-elected and newly elected Tees Valley Labour MPs we have welcomed plans for a bus revolution which would enable a joined-up Tees Valley-wide service with control over fares, routes and frequencies.
The proposals would allow the towns and villages of the Tees Valley to introduce a model similar to the Bee Network which is being rolled out across Greater Manchester by Mayor Andy Burnham.
The policy of the newly installed Labour Government to allow Local Transport Authorities to introduce franchising or public ownership will be a game changer.
A fully integrated public transport system for the region would help unlock growth and opportunity and give everyone affordable access to town centres and the area's attractions across coast and countryside.
Read more here - https://www.andymcdonaldmp.org/.../much-needed-tees.../

Link wont werk!

https://www.andymcdonaldmp.org/uncatego ... pZYQ48Ghng



This should werk!!!!

it all sounds good but there is no mention of fleets of electric vehicles they,ll be wanting to purchase to run them. be shocked if that does not get a mention.

Snowy how would you cope with out a car with your daily walks with the dogs, I use the buses regularly when I am in town and some times I am the only passenger. The buses to the Headland, Owton Manor and Seaton are fairly busy but there is never a problem getting a seat.
Could you or others on here get to their place of work on public transport before they retired, I couldn’t have, Power Station, Seal Sands, Wilton etc.

I couldn’t in my case, simple as that, that said most of my neighbours walk their dogs around the neighbourhood….but that’ just me.
Frankly Jamie, works services were available up to the 80’s, but they disappeared, but nowadays the buses are there just for the profit on the most profitable routes across the country, time everything was tidied up and a return to public service even if it involved subsidy’s than the shadow we have now.

Being realistic Snowy, we are talking Hartlepool not Manchester or London where you can actually get to your place of work on public transport. If you work in Stockton, Middlesbrough or any of the 2 hospitals a bus might get you there but how long would it take. My ex worked between Hartlepool and North Tees, they provided staff transport as there was no suitable public transport.The NHS provide a shuttle bus, I have used it for patients and visitors between the 2 hospitals but the last one leaves North Tees at 5pm.
No bus company is going to operate if they are not making money are they ?[/quote]
Seriously Jamie I’m driving round town all day and there’s plenty using the buses from what I see, but privatising the buses made it a bus business and not a bus service with constant rises when Stagecoach took over here unlike when the Councils ran them to break even and cross subsidise services, the profit line never became the target but providing a service that financed itself..
One fly in the ointment is Councils nowadays are top heavy with admin, a lot of whom haven’t got a clue on the the practicalities of running most services.[/quote]

Snowy how would you cope with out a car with your daily walks with the dogs, I use the buses regularly when I am in town and some times I am the only passenger. The buses to the Headland, Owton Manor and Seaton are fairly busy but there is never a problem getting a seat.
Could you or others on here get to their place of work on public transport before they retired, I couldn’t have, Power Station, Seal Sands, Wilton etc.[/quote]
I couldn’t in my case, simple as that, that said most of my neighbours walk their dogs around the neighbourhood….but that’ just me.
Frankly Jamie, works services were available up to the 80’s, but they disappeared, but nowadays the buses are there just for the profit on the most profitable routes across the country, time everything was tidied up and a return to public service even if it involved subsidy’s than the shadow we have now.[/quote]


Work services were available because no one could afford a car and the factories employed a few hundred staff. I am sure bus services were available from outside GEC at finishing times at one time. Bus Services used to run through Wilton when it was owned by ICI, our storeman got the bus from Skelton wherever that is.

Seriously Jamie I’m driving round town all day and there’s plenty using the buses from what I see, but privatising the buses made it a bus business and not a bus service with constant rises when Stagecoach took over here unlike when the Councils ran them to break even and cross subsidise services, the profit line never became the target but providing a service that financed itself..
One fly in the ointment is Councils nowadays are top heavy with admin, a lot of whom haven’t got a clue on the the practicalities of running most services.[/quote]

Snowy how would you cope with out a car with your daily walks with the dogs, I use the buses regularly when I am in town and some times I am the only passenger. The buses to the Headland, Owton Manor and Seaton are fairly busy but there is never a problem getting a seat.
Could you or others on here get to their place of work on public transport before they retired, I couldn’t have, Power Station, Seal Sands, Wilton etc.[/quote]
I couldn’t in my case, simple as that, that said most of my neighbours walk their dogs around the neighbourhood….but that’ just me.
Frankly Jamie, works services were available up to the 80’s, but they disappeared, but nowadays the buses are there just for the profit on the most profitable routes across the country, time everything was tidied up and a return to public service even if it involved subsidy’s than the shadow we have now.[/quote]


Work services were available because no one could afford a car and the factories employed a few hundred staff. I am sure bus services were available from outside GEC at finishing times at one time. Bus Services used to run through Wilton when it was owned by ICI, our storeman got the bus from Skelton wherever that is.[/quote]
I know, I used them when I first started work…didn’t need a car so could spend my money on my mortgage.
Even when I passed my test, I never got a car, used to hire one for holidays etc but the bus stopped locally was reliable and cheap….the Stagecoach took over and I’ve had a car ever since..any way, we won’t give a toss a hundred years from now

remember as a kid catching a bus into town or down to seaton from the junction of stockton road and brenda road where you were lucky to get onto the first bus passing. seaton was a nightmare on a good day getting back from at the weekend but it took years for it to get to todays situation. it would take a fortune being spent to get those days of the 50,s back again and does the average man in the street actually want it or will do their upmost to see that ever happening again no matter what councils and central government do.

I suspect they were different people, people nowadays would rather go to some retail outlet for the day and sadly do would a lot of the ‘lads’ down to the age of five.
Getting threw off the bus for kids was quite normal…. We spent a lot of time doing daft things most people now would be outraged over, but which most kids then would find quite normal….if you had a pen knife then you’d be cutting rope or wood with it, stabbing someone wouldn’t cross your mind.