How long will the Western leaders stand back and turn a blind eye to Israels actions supposedly against Hamas but quite obviously now is against the entire population of Gaza including over 200 aid workers trying to ease an horrendous humanitarian crisis brought on by their military actions.
Yes the Hamas attack on innocent Israelis was abhorrent but what the IDF and Israeli government is equally so.
Putin is a war criminal but Netanyahu is not - how does that work? Weaponising food, water, medicines, attacking aid workers and hospitals are all illegal.

Do please try not to take too much notice of the BBC and MSM on this issue Mr PTID.
What you have just written is absolute nonsense bordering on anti Semitic.
The IDF is not targeting civilians.
The terrorists are..that's why they exist.. to kill civilians.
This will be over when all those poor hostages are released, and every Hamas terrorist is eliminated including all those involved in the October 7th massacre from lowly operatives to the top leaders.
Justice for all those that were horribly tortured raped and murdered will then be done.
Hamas terrorists are deliberately hiding behind their own people and using hospitals and mosques as bases while the IDF is trying to minimise civilian casualties in urban warfare.
The IDF is actually encouraging civilians to move from each area they are targeting before they move in.
Hamas is actively preventing them from leaving.
Are the Russians minimising civilian casualties in Ukraine do you think?
Are they making sure they are not damaging hospitals and schools or cutting off water and electricity supplies.
No they are doing that deliberately as part of a war strategy as have other nations in undertaking war in the past.
The IDF is actually allowing in humanitarian aid and taking as much care as possible to prevent harm to civilans and essential infrastructure.
What did we do in world war 2 do you think when we levelled German cities?
Were we involved in dropping the bomb on Japan?
Israel is at war..continually... and was before October 7th.
Hundreds of rockets are fired into the place every day.
"Israels actions are supposedly against Hamas"
Supposedly?
How dare you write such crap on here.

https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need- ... id-to-gaza

Israel are killing innocents and have created a humanitarian hell hole - fact. Not anti-Semitic to say that either. I fully condemn what Hamas did back in October, and I fully condemn the deaths and suffering that are happening on a daily basis. And in my opinion our Government and others should be condemning them too.
If you think that allowing 100 trucks a day to cross the border and the odd ship or airlift is sufficient to aid nearly 3 million displaced citizens then you're deluded.
Everyone living in Gaza is not a terrorist and that's another fact for you.

Did I say that or imply that everyone in Gaza was a terrorist?
Did I?
Or are you just making it up like all the other shite.
Believe who you want Mr PTID.
I'll believe who I want.
But as with other matters I think you are dragging me down to your level yet again.
So I'll end it there... once and for all.

Don't think I actually accused you of saying or implying anything did I?

How abut we end this discussion now.

Totally agree Snowy

I'm not sure why it should be ended as long as it's kept civil?
If people don't wish to comment the thread will run its course like any other.

Who do u think you are?
Sheek Abdullah

Two groups with inflexible, diametrically opposed views slagging each other off is gonna be as enjoyable as watching you as a male stripper performing at an over 80s swingers party kev…. that’s why.

With all due respect it's very easy to just ignore any threads which don't interest you isn't it?

Hamas are very obviously good at building underground structures, so you would think they would build shelters to protect their innocet citizens but for some reason they dont. It is almost as if they want their civilians to be killed so the gullible Western media will influence world opinion on behalf of Hamas.

Don’t try and think for me, I asked a question……it’s nothing to do with ignoring threads, but a subject like this will not find any common ground between party’s with inflexible attitudes that are never going to reach a mutual consensus…..in other words a slanging match will and wind it’s weary path as each side thinks they have the moral high ground.
If you want to have a ‘debate’ crack on, I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole…it’s been going on since time immemorial ….and I doubt anything new will be solved on here. Goodnight.

I'd say about 99% of topics on here are discussed by members with diametrically opposed views and absolutely nothing is ever solved on here.

Yes there's been conflict in the area for centuries, but there are still boundaries which civilised nations shouldn't be crossing - obviously terrorists don't have boundaries - it seems as if Israel are getting very close to if not actually are acting outwith the boundaries.
If so they themselves are as bad as Hamas imo and the rest of the civilised world needs to tell them to toe the line - publicly at least.

It'll be interesting to see what the government lawyers opinions on the matter are, if they release them that is. A slight hardening of the language from our politicians is happening and Australia's PM has condemned the strike on the aid convoy already.

Crack on, I’m getting off the bus at this stop.

What percentage of wars are about religion spanning hundreds of years ago, Yugoslavia was about religion, we had a ‘civil war’ in Northern Ireland which was basically to do with religion, it’s still going on with out the violence though.

The Arab countries can’t even live peacefully with different factions of Muslims, India and its surrounding neighbours are never far away from conflict either.

The more people who die in all these wars the more martyrs that are created, kids in Gaza see Israeli troops killing men, women and children, the majority won’t forget that when they grow up.and see Israel as the enemy.

Couldn't agree more, Israel by its actions are probably radicallising more Palestinians than Hamas ever could.
Without international intervention then further escalation is inevitable. Won't put a lid on it but could calm things down a little. There's a massive rebuild job to do too which I'd hopevthe international community will actively support.

waddell mentioned the post being anti semitic. why is it you can criticise openly any single country in the world without anything being thrown at you. for more years that i can remember israel as a nation has used this as a get out of jail card when there forces have been involved in some dispute. its the first time in my life that the actions of israel has caused marches against them. what i do not like is the jewish population in this country having to live in fear due to the actions of a country that some but not all have only visited.

The Israeli intelligence services and military are among the most sophisticated and advanced in the world, I'm sure that a far more precise and surgical response to Hamas would have been within their capability.
Imagine the uproar from the international community if the UK government had taken a similar approach in NI to IRA attacks on the mainland?
As for antisemitic, I'm certainly not nor am I pro Hamas, I am pro peace though and completely against the slaughter of innocents on all sides.

Its never ending circle of hate and death often in the name of religion but really more about rich people fighting other rich people and using the lives of poor people to do their fighting.

My biggest concern is how many are being radicalised or were before they arrived in the U.K. judging by arrivals from across the channel from Muslim countries there could be a few ‘sleepers’ amongst the arrivals.

I suspect there'll be more than a few.

we have had muslims in this country for years now but i cannot imagine even 5 years back there would be all these pro palastinian marches and anti israel stuff going on. its not as if its the first time israel has shoved its weight about in the middle east.

Elephant in the room?

Elephant in the room?

Yes 2 of them!

off topic.. however we nearly got bombed ourselves yesterday.. and its all went very very silent on whom left it there.

Talking about the incident at Ron Perrys garage on the A19 - explosive device left... and it wasnt a bloody dud either... They detonated it, in nearby farmers field .. very worrying what could of happened an so close to home (i often use that garag too) !

"Shoved its weight about"? I presume you are aware exactly why Israel is "shoving its weight about". Something happened on October 7th.

You obviously don't know that the government of Israel have been shoving their weight about for decades.

Israel was facing an ever increasing numbers of Hamas rockets fired from Gaza in the general direction of any Israeli town or city in range with the general idea of killing anyone who happened to be in the vicinity of the explosion: if civilians so much the better. Israel resorted to building their own version of the US Patriot system which they called Iron Dome. I presume Hamas got fed up with most of their rockets getting shot down so decided to go on a land based killing spree on October 7th.

Israel is the only Western style democracy in the Middle East and is a strong ally of the US and Western Europe. It always amazes me that people actually defend the actions of terrorists who are hostile to everything we stand for and condemn Israel who are our friends and subscribe to many of the values we hold. Obviously Israel is by no means perfect but I guess when one is surrounded by enemies on all sides and note that the mainstream media unquestioningly has taken the side of Hamas then perhaps one might be understandably less than understanding of the plight of one's enemies.

It's not about supporting Hamas though is it?
The Hamas attack in October has been rightly condemned across the world.
The question for me is are the deaths of c.23000 people including innocent women, kids, and aid workers, the displacement of over 2 million people, and the deprivation of basic necessities such as food water and medicine an appropriate and proportionate response?
South Africa alleged genocide some months ago, the UN have called for a ceasefire, and now there are numerous allegations of Israel breaching international law in their war against Hamas.
Saying sorry for killing all of these innocents doesn't wash with many. Can you imagine the terror of those aid workers who survived the 1st attack only to be struck again and again while carrying out humanitarian aid within a "safe corridor" under the rules laid down by the IDF? Terrorism is terrorism regardless of which side you're on.

trouble is when you fire shells or drop bombs in a war many innocent civilians are going to be killed. inhabitants of hartlepool should know this as much as other towns in this country do. however you never see their names on a war memorial. i,d guess now most of our ancestors born around the turn of the last century will have known civilians who were killed in both world wars.

Maybe the theory of the Israelis is by killing the civilians it will turn them against Hamas, personally I have the opposite thoughts.

In war (this one deliberately provoked by the way) innocent people are killed, it is horrible, vile, nasty and should be avoided at all costs but Hamas have a different opinion. Unfortunately, Israel has the unenviable task of rooting out a ruthless, calculating merciless terror organization deeply embedded within a civilian population and well resourced by Iran. In urban warfare it is hellishly difficult to avoid harming the innocent and Hamas play on this. The more dead civilians the better as far as Hamas is concerned. In all the years Hamas have "governed" Gaza, not a single bomb shelter has been built, not one. Of course, our mainstream media believe every word Hamas says, but the reality is we have no idea of the real number of casualties because it is in the interest of Hamas to inflate them. Hamas never say how many of te casualties are Hamas combatants. Judging by the news coverage carefully manipulated by Hamas, if one didn't know better, one would think Israel kills civilians only.

Jamie, if you had been the President of Israel on October 7th, what would you have done? What would any of us have done? Would we have said, "better not attack Hamas because we might radicalize more people to join them"?

really which country has cared jack shit for civilian populations when they declare war on another. which one surrenders if their fighting forces have any capability left no matter how their own population are suffering. do not forget the mugs fighting for some politicians, royals and those with a vested interest out of it because god or another religeous person from fiction is on your side.

In war there are rules of engagement which are clearly not being followed, the latest 7 aid workers are among over 200 killed and verified by the aid organisations themselves not by Hamas. How many truly innocent peoples lives are fair game in war? Particularly when they're specifically known to be aid workers, travelling an approved safe route but targeted nonetheless. Apparently the senior military people responsible have been sacked - they should be jailed!
Israel are obliterating entire cities and forcing almost 5 million people into an area normally occupied by less than 2 million without the capability to support such numbers.

Rules of engagement, if you are under the cosh they go out the window, look at the atrocities Russia has committed in Ukraine.

Funny how the "rules of engagement" only apply to Western forces.

Even when you're under the cosh, which Israel are clearly not, a war crime or an atrocity isnt any less tolerable that just because they're our allies in the region.

On a point of order are terrorists subjected to any rules of war.

Nope. They can do what they like but western forces subject to strict rules of engagement rigidly enforced by the BBC and the rest of Western mainstream media.

So we are saying that one side have to play by the rules but the other side can do what they like isn't that a bit unfair.

Yeah. The idea is that western forces from democracies are supposed to show they have high moral standards. Thing is, Hamas dont care one way or another and neither do the likes of Putin, Al Qaida and Isis.

So the idea is we have to let these people walk all over us while we keep a straight bat and stiff upper lip. Maybe the General idea is that they take over the world and we forfeit all our culture, beliefs and traditions in order to accomodate them. Nah they wouldn't do that to us would they. Well I never, whatever would me Grannie say.

It looks like the IDF don't care either and certainly the Israeli PM doesn't. Imagine the uproar if the UK army had acted in Northern Ireland like the IDF are acting in Gaza.
Israel are poking the fire with their latest strike in Syria, possibly in a cynical move to get a response from Iran and therefore strengthen the alliance with the US.
If restraint isn't shown soon it'll go up like a powder keg and there'll be huge losses across the region and probably terrorist attacks across the West.

And Iran will be rubbing its hands with glee as all this kicks off and Israel gets the blame for it. Boils my pish.

If the terrorists in Ireland were continuously firing rockets into England, there just might have been a bit more retaliation. In fact prior to the partition the Army did dish it out a bit. Didn't they "attend" a game at Croke park and fire indiscriminately into the spectators. The Ireland episode is nowhere near the scale of this fracas in Gaza, apart from the fact that terrorists are terrorists and surely forfeit their "rights" by their behaviour. Hamas are the cause of civilians being caught up in the conflict by blatantly and cowardly using their own people as human shields. How any one can have any tolerance or sympathy towards these scum is beyond me. Any civilian killed through this conflict is one too many but let us not get away from the fact that Hamas are fuelling the whole show and are intent on wiping out the Israeli nation, aided and abetted by their neighbours and allies. It's Muslims against Jews. As for the Yanks, they have provided the Israelis with weaponry and are now trying to bully them into not using it to appease public outrage. The fighting should stop, all hostages returned, the infrastructure re established and a hard nosed international force set up in the region until such time they all collectively can behave. All protests in this country relating to this carry on should be stopped. That's my take on it for what it's worth.

Israel should carpet bomb the place with
mOABs for a couple of days then it would be all over and the world could stop its hand wringing over a load of ragheads who wish us nothing but evil.

people quickly forget who fired the first shot or which country declared war on another first. if both sides populations actually refused to take up arms and fire on another there would never be deaths and wars in the first place.