At Orient on Saturday from a superb showing of Poolies there was a toxic undercurrent about what is happening at our club. It was common knowledge that the deal was already done with Stockport and they were just agreeing compensation. Raj must put out a proper statement and give answers to the following:
Why have coaches, a physio and manager all left6 in such a short period with inadequate explanations ?
Why was the playing budget cut despite going up a division ?
Why were promotion bonuses not paid in full?
Why was there a delay in DCs contract was it only done so Pools would receive compensation and what will the
compensation be used for ?
Why was DC offered a lower than average contract for the new division ?
Why was Armstrong not signed despite being a FREE transfer?
Will transfer funds be made available in January due to the increased crowds at the Vic?
Raj your customers need answers from you not made up speculations on fan forums, answers please.

Where are the details about some of these questions?

How has the budget been cut? People will have had wage increases and we have signed players also?

Armstrong went for a fee to Harrogate I believe? Certainly undisclosed fee touted.

Some of them seem a bit harsh but agree needs to give a proper statement just to appease current unsettlement

Amstrrong was under contract at Salford Harrogate would've needed to pay a fee for him and it is believed this was sorted before the play off final.

You either clear the rumours up or you let speculation go into overdrive and moan about it after.

Here is a question for you.

Why, if all these shenanigans were going on, did DC sign the contract and then give an interview in such a gleeful and positive way.

And as for speculation on fans forums your post is the perfect example.
You could of course reveal the sources of your information with factual evidence and then, I for one, will jump on your bandwagon and support you.
Over to you.

Silence is deafening

People forget to mention we also didn't get Cass back and we also lost R.Johnson.

The promotion squad got dismantled. Sutton retained all of theirs....

but neither means the playing budget was cut unless people have every single player contract known

johnson i imagine would of been peanuts and cass could well have been a free loan; probably potential same as what we have goodwin on now

Regarding Cass.

Its up to the parent club to say where he goes on loan.

Where excatley was the toxic undercurrent?
I can't be arsed to reply fully,but Newcastle sent Cass 'out of his comfort zone.
Johnson went to be nearer home & more money,but we've a better player in Byrne anyway.
The keeper coach went to scout for Chelsea,or did you expect him to turn that down.
Buster has left because his business is bouncing & can't do both.

good post..... wow.... "toxic undercurrents"....sounds painful !!!
i was there and didn't smell anything myself to be honest....
but these are quite serious allegations you are making...
especially
1.the playing budget was cut
2.promotion bonuses were not paid
how do you know this or is it a secret???
can you give us a clue ?
sure you would not make such statements on a public forum unless you were confident they were true ?
also interested in how you know no money was exchanged for armstrong and that it was a "free transfer"?
oh, and why do you think the explanations for leaving by challinor,buster and turnnbull (given by themselves not the club) are somehow "inadequate".
what do you mean ?
sorry for all these questions....but like you i think we all deserve answers to what has gone on, and what has not gone on, i.e the truth

oh... forgot to mention....mrs challinor can shit stir if she wants.....but us supporters need to stick together.... now more than ever...well done NWC and all that

Exactly.
When people question the reasons people go on to pastures new they need to have evidence that the reason given is a lie.
Buster explained his reason and we have to accept that. It is very arrogant and physically dangerous to call Buster a liar.
I wish Coxhall and co had gone on to pastures new before they raped the club. Now there was a pack of liars.
I'll tell you all something that you need to speculate on. If you continue to accuse Raj of not doing enough, of choking the club, of driving people away etc etc, he just might be driven away himself.
We are back in the league, we are in the top ten, we are in the knock out stages of the silly arse cup, we are hosting a prominent league one side on Saturday in the FA Cup, our gates are soaring, we have money to spend in January. When Raj Singh came in a few years ago, if he had promised to deliver what we have now we would have put him up for candidacy to the funny farm.
Cut the guy a bit of slack before the club is choked by his departure.

Essex poolie - as big a shit stirrer as Mrs challinor.

Seriously Mr Essex Poolie, you can't make a whole string of allegations, slag off others for "made up speculation on fans forums" and not provide some evidence to back up your own claims.

In addition to the points answered about Turnbull and Buster, Joe Parkinson left in August citing health and family reasons. Are you suggesting he made that up? He hasn't worked since, though I suppose it remains to be seen if Challinor can tempt him to help out at Stockport now that there'll be far less travelling involved. Joe also said Hartlepool's promotion to League Two was one of the biggest achievements in his career.

And have you asked yourself why Clint Hill agreed to join Pools, only to have his mate Chally up sticks and leave a couple of weeks later?

[color=#000000][/color]

and your point is bluey ?

Some people just like to have a whinge, they need a whipping boy, but ain’t gonna acknowledge Challoner’s actions. After the Harrogate game we were steaming, things were going well, promoted and a feel good factor all round had been prevalent since before the play off final.
So how come the always ‘informed’ whiners didn’t whine then.... do the maths. ffs.

And? What’s Sutton got do with it? How many other teams retained their players? Irrelevant.

still nothing from essex ?

It is absolutely relevant. Its an absolutely fair comparison and if you compare us with lots of recently promoted sides, you'll find we are the exception.

I’ve just found at Poolie 1
He’s probably looking for more exposees at Pools.

1.Raj wants to build a Tracey Island complex under the Vic so he can plan world domination

2.All the Pools players to be fitted with identity chips.

3. All fans to be lobotomised, but not till the price drops.

4.Raj to declare war on Stockport County, it will be over by Xmas

5. Game against Stockport in no mans land on Xmas Day

6 Pie crust reduced in thickness by 1millimetre as cost cutting move.

7. Dave Challinor Sports Stadium plans binned.

Because we do something different. Behave.

Yes. We offer peanuts.

You pedalling that line now.
If you can do better, smash your piggy bank and take over, put YOUR MONEY into the club.
Simple as that.

I was at the Orient game and can report there was a lovely optimistic feeling as we queued to get into the ground. There were no rumours circulating in the part of the queue I was in, we were enjoying the antics of a rather pissed failed break dancer. The weather was glorious and Pools fans were there in numbers. Really looking forward to a good contest though didn't dare to dream of a win. I admit things got toxic amongst some of us as all the goals flew in but that was not because of any hint of Challinor's departure, we were just frankly let down by the shockingly poor showing from the Pools players. First I heard of Challinors departure was his comment in the post match interview. I dont do twitter so maybe I am not really "in the know" as it were. I mean, is it being suggested that there was a toxic undercurrent at Orient because the travelling Pools fans knew Challinor was going? As I say I was not aware of any such thing. Can I just state that while no one is immune from criticism, Raj Singh saved our club from oblivion with his own money and was responsible for bringing Challinor to the club in the first place which lead to the success we have not seen at the Vic for years. I would need a lot of proof before I would criticize Raj Singh.

Everyone respects what Raj has done for us. Come in when we nearly went bust. Hired one of our most successful managers ever. Overseen a promotion back the FL. Everything is just a bit raw as we've just lost said manager to a team below us . The Sutton comparison is valid in that they also signed Bennet & Boldewyn whilst retaining their best players, whilst we lost 3/4 of our best ones & didn't sign one of 24 targets on deadline day...

We want to be run sustainably so we don't end up in shit creek financially again - and if that's where we are in balancing our books post Coxhall - no problem. Just tell the fans that's the case. There's a big windfall with promotion - and appreciate costs go up - but we also have some of the strongest attendances in the league. The best we could ply in terms of a forward was Fondop when we so desperately needed one. If rumours were true we tried for Tshimanga, then tell the fans we put a bid in. It would go a long way to giving us an understanding of what the short to long-term vision is for the footballing side of the club.

We've started the season brilliantly, and long may that continue! I hope the compo is used to secure a solid manager who fits into the future workings of the club. And Raj secures a few additions to improve the squad in Jan (with money that is available to be spent!) . Fans will continue to get behind the owner, new manager & players. UTP.

We knew we’d have to wait till years end, then see.

lovely optimistic feeling.....yeah that's spot on......that's whats been happening recently.... and what we need to keep going...deliberately trying to stoke up toxic undercurrents helps no one

Nope. This is a discussion about what's going on at Pools. There was no caveat to that saying 'rosey comments only'. I and others are speculating that we have lost more players and staff than most promoted sides because we are on a shoestring budget and there be other non-rosey factors behind the scenes. I say theres more than enough evidence for valid suspicions. What's that got to do with whose money it is?

"I say theres more than enough evidence for valid suspicions."

Definition of suspicion (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: the act or an instance of suspecting something wrong without proof or on slight evidence :

so whats your slight evidence consist of imp ?

It seems obvious to me that Pools just dont have the money some of the other more established League Two teams have (and Sutton) so we have to be careful which of course means that when a money bags club comes knocking for our prized assets there is not much we can do to stop them. Twas ever thus apart from in the golden days of IOR. It also means we cannot satisfy the wage demands of certain players who have now moved on. Worth mentioning that the saintly Dave signed large numbers of players mostly defenders, so our squad is quite large and contains individuals who rarely play. It could be argued we could have signed lesser numbers but better quality.

imp..... i am sure as you put it there are "non rosey factors behind the scenes" .....there are in most organisations...thing is that my mam always told me it was wrong to make things up...especially if i was trying to get someone else into trouble...

We are run on a shoe string because that's what we've got.
And dave brought in loads of players most of who soon went again a few of who were gems.

The promotion squad was dismantled,really?
We lost,Armstrong,who wasn't ours to lose anyway Oates & Johnson,thats three.
Bennett only played a handful of games & didn't even play in the final,so you can't count him.Plus,Challinor didn't even want to sign him.

On top of that we still have Featherstone, Killip, Liddle, Ferguson, Sterry, Holohan, Shelton, Odusina, Crawford and Grey...........all of which were here last season. The loanees went back so the only two who actually left were Oates and Johnson as Mr Kebab said. DC put a lot of emphasis on loanees and they have to go back.

Right, put up or shut up. What evidence are you alluding to, let’s have it down in writing on here, what are your allegations ? What precisely are you insinuating by referring to ‘other non rosey factors behind the scenes’ do enlighten us.

This toxic tittle tattle does no good to the club whatsoever.
Funny how you never mentioned anything before now.

Why? Is censorship too much effort?

Thought as much, nothing to report.

What we need is to win Saturday get some more money in. Its pretty obvious to most we are ran on a shoestring, so it's no surprise good players will go, as well as managers. Hopefully the tide will turn and more investment will be brought in, after all crowd wise we are mixing it with the big boys in this league now barring Bradford and Swindon. It would not surprise me if someone with money is now looking at a club like pools, thinking their is massive potential their.

I think this shoestring thing is being totally overdone, no one gave a thought to it till Wavey Dave rode out of town.
I was there in the 70’s and 80’s when there wasn’t even a shoestring to run on and no one ever carped on about it, it wasn’t even thought about.

Hignett on Radio Tees reckoned our budget was competitive, that the chairman was ambitious. Things heading in the right direction. There is rarely perfect harmony. Dave’s left for the cash. Pay his lad through uni. He hasn’t backed himself as such he’s thought on average he’s better to take the money ne rather than prove himself in the EFL. His shout alone.

I think you're right particularly if the amount of money was considerable as suggested by Mr Stelling. In football as in life money talks and the very thought of it can overcome all ideas of loyalty, fairness, decency and other unfashionable concepts. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Victorian vicar, I am starting to feel a bit more rational about Challinor's departure and realizing he probably had no option but to do what he did. It is a good job we wont be playing Stockport any time soon because in my opinion it will be quite some time before he will be welcomed at the Vic.

a gentle reminder.... for some of the earlier contributors on this thread... as to why we still have a club ....and why you still have opportunity to post your anonymous unsubstantiated crap on here....please read carefully and reflect

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ngh-118381

Without responding directly to the points raised in this post, please allow me to have my rant...these are thing obvious to me, with a mixture of facts & assumptions, no doubt I am a rarf:

We Poolies need to understand a few home truths....Regarding DC leaving, there was no single reason, but an accumulation of reasons, he is a VERY ambitious manager, so lets look at that first, true he came to Pools when we needed a competent man in charge & luckily for us he was between jobs, but still a masterstroke in identifying him as 'the one'
We ended our first season under DC on an upward curve & could well have made the playoffs & maybe more...we just don't know. As for last season... we all know the rest... as did most top team NL chairmen watching pools fairly consistently beat their expensively assembled sides with our low budget squad assembled by DC consisting of journeymen, loanees & players who were either out of favour, or simply did not fit in at their respective clubs, DC moulded them into a formidable unit.

Which brings us to Pools finances, its pointless having a go at Raj, because (as far as we know) he simply does not have the financial clout of multi millionaire owners of the likes of Harrogate, Mansfield & many in the NL. We lost out on Armstrong because we had to wait & see which league we were headed to, by that time his deal was long done, even if given the chance to bid we could not commit to, or even afford to match Harrogate's offer, not forgetting that had we failed at Bristol, we STILL would have needed him for this season. The same can be said of Oates, our player of the season, who moved much closer to home (Pontefract apparently) & got himself a few hundred pounds a week more...which we again could not match. So there went out 2 star strikers, with DC helpless to do anything. We then had the painful wait for contract renewals for Sterry, Feaths, Mols etc...Sterry would have gone had we lost the final, but thankfully both he & Mols are 'home birds' so we managed to hang on to them.
DC was then left with the difficult & almost impossible task of rebuilding a team with goals in it, six weeks after all other EFL teams...which highlights another problem we have, identifying players & convincing them to come to Hartlepool, a Northern outpost has never been an easy sell, even when matching wage demands.....Take Tshimanga, we (apparently) offered just about what he wanted, but he chose to stay in the NL & joined Chesterfield, nearer to home, transport links etc....Just like Ryan Johnson.

Which brings us back to DC & ambition... it's no fault of anyone at Pools that when it comes to recruiting quality players, we don't have adequate financial clout & are (in football terms) geographically challenged, which is why DC's achievements are even MORE eye opening to ambitious chairmen....but it will have been obvious to DC, that although he was no doubt enjoying his time here, especially with the adulation of the fans, that the club had probably reached its high water mark, in terms of fan base, ability to recruit, & pie-in-the sky stadium development noises from the club & council, which even if we believe them, are years down the line in a 'memorandum of understanding'

DC stalling on his contract was very telling, he was obviously not pleased with the offer made, which spilled out into the public eye in a spat with RS (programme comments), I really believe he was waiting for Wrexham to appoint a manager before signing.

Stockport County..Now then... hard reading for us Poolies..but since 2019 they are owned by a mega rich lifelong supporter, with a 7 year plan to get them back (yes back) into the Championship, they appear to have limitless funds available to fulfil their ambition (there's that word again) Their resources & playing staff are on a different planet to Pools, their intent & pulling power underlined by recently signing no less than Bolton Wanderers CAPTAIN Antoni Sarcevic, who drops 2 divisions on a 3 year contract.... Just like Paddy Madden, £300,000 transfer & two div drop into the NL...not forgetting the likes of Scott Quiqley, John Roony, Mark Kitchen MSH, etc. Its worth remembering they loaned us Ritchie Bennett who could not get near their first team, scored 5 for us, but we could not match his wages so Sutton snapped him up close season.

So what's in it for DC..bit of a daft statement but (again apparently) his deal is a huge upgrade than what he had at Pools (I heard 140K year plus bonuses)
Regarding the team, he can confidently target quality players from higher divisions safe in the knowledge that he has very chance of landing them being backed by a rich owner who is also a fan, the NL will not be home to Stockport for long, nor will EFL 2, not simply because of the quality of his players but the fact that he is a top class, fairly young ambitious manager, who I think will come to the attention of chairmen from clubs higher up the pyramid than Stockport, in the years to come.

One HUGE factor is the fact he is back home on his doorstep, he & his family are back in their local pub with old friends & mates, away games are easier to get to, so more time with family.

So the facts are, Stockport are a bigger beast than Pools, they have big plans, which includes updating their stadium, they are good for double our gates as their success (undoubtably) grows & would sit comfortably in the Championship they are based in Manchester, with all its attractions & transport links, they are surrounded in a 40 mile radius of clubs from most EFL divisions, meaning recruitment is relatively easy, with targeted players not having to uproot...

So then the call comes from DC's agent informing of Stockport's intent to offer him his dream job...well of course it did, he ticked every box for them, even being an ex captain for them.... the timing was crap for Pools, but for DC it is his dream job, he will feel vindicated by having completed what he was tasked with by RS, leaving us a division higher & above mid table

If you are still reading this you must be as sad as me lol

So In conclusion, am I pissed off...100% yes, do I blame him for his decision to leave 100% no...We were lucky to have found him, in any other 'profession', he would have been called an idiot to refuse...its up to us now...

rinkender.... the bloke who has caused this shitfest is someone many thought could be trusted...he made promises gave his word and was delighted to put his signature on an agreement.....but he was later offered more money.elsewhere .. so he then decided to go back on everything he had promised and leave.....why ?..because he knew the law meant nobody could do sweet FA about it and he could get away with it...cheers and thank you as he would say...now some on here are trying to make him out to be a victim....when he is in fact the culprit....its complete utter bollocks...and he has made mugs out of people who gave him a chance when he was out of work and needed one ..that's gratitude for you...wouldnt agree with your take on this one bit.

Poolie 1...I completely understand where you are with this, & I agree it makes a mockery of contracts, but lets face it, contracts are mainly there to protect the employee, not the employer although the employer in this case will no doubt be able to claim compo from the predator employer, not the departing employee. In many situations (in my life) I have been able to walk away from agreed long term contracts with a weeks notice, mainly to jump to a better paid job nearer to home & family....I bet most people have or would do the same, but if an employer wanted to get rid of ME, you can bet I would have been waving my 'contract' & going legal on him.

The problem with football is the emotional attachment we have with our clubs...although 'outsiders' like transient managers & players might feel it & get caught up in it, unless you are a supporter, it really IS about the next best offer that comes along.

So in my humble opinion, I don't blame him, I never wanted him to be my mate, & I don't suppose he knew any supporters personally, as it's the club that I love, not managers, also not sure of what 'promises' he went back on?...his original remit was to get us back into the EFL, he was trusted to do it & he did, even then he never 'promised' to.

At the end of the day, Pools gave him a job with a specific task & he paid us back in spades, the manner of his leaving WAS shite but that is a harsh fact of life, circumstances & ultimately what is best for him & his family, but if Pools & RS had known how it would end the day he was appointed, both he, the club & every supporter would still have took his hand off to get us out of the awful NL....I don't give a toss what he does now, we move onward & upward with Sweens

I cannot fault your summary of the situation one bit and applaud your contribution.
However, the human factor cannot be excluded from this and most people feel let down what appeared to be the betrayal of a relationship that few other managers had with the fans.
If he’d been open about early on instead of being evasive till the last minute, we’d have been disappointed but understood, we know theses things happen, but the perceived deception and evasiveness of what we’d come to consider a friend was the part that hurt.

Very good evaluation and I agree 100%
But if Challinor had just come out and made a public statement stating it was closer to home, better money, more opportunities blah blah then 95% of poolies would have been ok with that.

I stand by my original title statements which came from within the club but refuse to divulge any names of contacts and just want a clearer dialogue between RS the club and its supporters. A very good posting by Rinkender and agree with most points raised.