Not an easy time for any owner/ chairman obviously. Football is not their only interest either. Raj has his other business interests alongside his family. I hope he is faring well.

As supporters we don't know the ins and outs of every decision made. We won't agree with every one and we all make mistakes. We also don't know what the future holds, but I think credit is due for where we are at the moment.

Thanks Raj, hopefully you will keep up the good work.

I think if it wasn't for Covid we would be in the shit by now , Covid has probably been a blessing for Singh, just delayed the inevitable IMO, only time will tell.

Fir play to you for sticking your head above the parapet to say that. Nowt easier than telling other people how to spend their money.

You'd think though it would be in his own best interests to get the Chief Operating Officer appointment made. As things stand the club must be taking up a lot of his time making day to day decisions.

Probably the club told him to come on and say it , seems to be a lot of that going on at the moment, and also ignoring those who fail to comply and have a different take on proceedings, these are the people sticking their heads above the parapet

I'd imagine the clubs running is essentially on autopilot atm with different volunteers doing small upkeep jobs.

If, and a big if, pools got promoted, I couldn't see Raj pulling the plug. Itd be idiotic if he did. Look at how many National League clubs eventually got to league one, Tranmere a few years back did it on the first attempt.

If the season is voided however...well, I guess lives are more important than than anything else. Unless of course its cricket, reality TV, pubs, restaurants and a myriad of other things thatll happen before fans are allowed back.

In all fairness considering the financial impact, the fact we never once had fans and the fact Singh's main business is a care home, I'd say the club has done very well on both the playing and transfer front.

Not as bad as things could've been I suppose, as I said on another thread though, a club that reportedly loses a million a year, and doesn't bring in much money commercially, surely can't lose that amount if its not operating at full tilt , therefore I don't think Covid has been too bad for Pools. On the transfer front, well things look okay when you are 2nd top, but I will reserve judgement on that, when everyone has played the same amount of games, ie end of the season. DC to his credit though has done well to turn things around and get the best out of a largely average group of players.

I've no connection to HUFC and don't know Mr. Singh from Adam. I'm a professional person with a varied commercial experience and have previously valued several lower league football clubs as well as non-league, along with other commercial facilities attached to football league grounds. I mean I do have to admit that I haven't managed a Sunday League team so I can't classify myself as having quite the same knowledge and expertise as someone like, say, Horden, but you'll be pleased know I'm gradually coming to accept that I'll never be at his level.

I'm pretty pleased with where the club is at at present given where we were pre-takeover and the world at large and think it is something to build on hopefully if the season keeps going. There's nothing wrong with showing appreciation I believe. It doesn't make you weak or vulnerable to say thank you last time i looked.

Or, of course alternatively Horden is correct and the club has paid me £7 to post an appreciative message about our club owner/chairman on here in an attempt to use social media to boost his approval ratings amongst a relatively small group of fans, a minority of whom oppose anything he does for any reason they can point to, real or imaginary and who have no comprehension about the real challenges of running a football league club either pre-covid, or post covid.

those who are pro or anti raj are just really guessing the situation without many facts to go on. there will be reasons i suppose to do a hatchet job on the guy if you wish. the only thing i can say is that he is a very rich man when compared to the fans but not when compared to many owners even at pools standard. there may be better out there to run the club and they are not exactly queuing up though. also the devil you know etc.

Just an arse licker then ? a one that is happy with mediocrity.

"I'm a professional person with a varied commercial experience and have previously valued several lower league football clubs as well as non-league, along with other commercial facilities attached to football league grounds"

WOW ! doesn't that make you the font of all knowledge The country is in a mess because of so called professional people like you. Your type don't like us mere mortals expressing an opinion do you?. We haven't letters behind our name, so we don't know what we are talking about Show me a professional businessman and I'll show you an arsehole.

I’ve been pretty critical of raj since the start of the season, think the budget was substantially reduced from 700000 from last seasons squad, bearing in mind darlo have said there budget is around 300000 to 400000 that’s pretty paltry for pools as one of the biggest and best supported clubs in the non league. Credit has to be given though for signing better quality players when it was obvious to everyone we were on the slide. You also can’t knock the bloke from saving us, think the problems with raj will come when he has had enough, we should never forget what happened to darlo and I don’t think he has ever said if he has loaned us the money and how much he will want back.

Appointing Challinor was probobly the best decision he has made and although we are in a slightly false position, results barring a couple of terrible performances have been pretty good for the last year or so.

we had a real bad spell after that torquay game but has been turned round. every team at our level will have a similar spell and i doubt pools budget will be less than macclesfield one when they went up. cerainly challinor looks a happier man than he did a month or so back where he looked a dead man ready for his walking away from the vic.

Isnt it down in the club accounts as loans?
What would concern me as a fan in general, is if clubs are expected to take on loans to continue the season. If any club is sailing close to the wind as it is why on earth would they want to take on another £200k or whatever of debt?
If Singh is already under pressure with the club debt and business issues with covid, he will need another considerable loan like a hole in the head.

It’s down as a loan the question I guess is how much will he be prepared to take when the time comes. Yes I can’t see many clubs wanting to loan more money to finish a season without fans. Something will have to be sorted shortly.

He wanted every penny back when the americans came calling.

Results wise Challinor has done okay. The bad run that came after the Torquay game, IMO was a result of a poor reaction to it from DC, no problem though , it happens, thankfully after a rocky spell , he managed to get back on track, no thanks to the signings of Sterry and Armstrong, signing that really shouldn't have had to be made, given the size of our squad. With things going well on the field , surprise surprise, criticism of both Singh and DC abated. I don't see why then, certain people have to come on the board, people who never usually contribute to the board discussions, to stir the shit and open up old wounds.

You do make me laugh Horden. My opinions haven't changed on the chairman or manager if you are referring to my good self. This board isn't your property is it? Anyone can post whether or not they respond to every post you put on. I don't see why you have to come on the board spouting 87.5%* shite, but we all live with it. Anyway, I'll get back to ruining the country for you.

*minimum

You contradict yourself , I noticed you did that in your last post, not very clever for a professional are you ?

For someone with no connection to the club who doesn't know me, I clearly have rattled your cage, as they say the truth hurts, that my son, you will have to live with.

You say you have no connection to HUFC or know Raj Singh , yet you seem quite passionate about a club you refer to as WE , in your response. It seems quite random to heap praise on someone you don't know , who runs a club you have no connection with. Maybe you praise other clubs chairman on other clubs message boards , strange pastime , but as they say, there is nowt as queer as folk , or maybe you are just one of the nice guys?.

You don't know me either , but you seem quite keen to shoot me down with a series of snidey comments. If you don't know me, you have certainly heard of me, in that case if you know my name, lets have yours? and then we can see who really is telling the truth.

Why do you feel the need to try and shoot me down? Is it because I make a good point and you see me as a danger in exposing the con that is Raj Singh and the way HUFC is currently being run?. I only want what's best for the club ( unlike you ) that I have supported for nearly 50 years. The world would be in an even greater mess if we all just did as we were told and never challenged anything or made suggestions in order to improve things. Is it just a case of the truth hurts , and you feel it is your duty on behalf of the club to hit back? Fair enough if you have put in the money and the hard miles like me, but strange coming from someone with no connection to the club or chairman, or are you one of these people slithering around in the background looking for some work with the club?. Maybe you would like to tell us why you were valuing HUFC in the first place? and who asked you to do this and why?.

PM me your name. I dare you.

Horden I know that at heart you are a Pools supporter but in truth all you seem to do is criticise,criticise and criticise. Some I fully agree with but you seem to get enjoyment out it. For some reason you call Raj a Con Man, you may be correct I don’t know but can you explain how this is. All I know is that without his intervention we would probably have folded. I do not think he is a rich man by rich man standards but he is keeping the club going maybe not to the standard we would like but beggars can’t be choosers. A few months ago in one of your posts you said the club was leaking money. Again I don’t know and I asked you how but you did not reply. Maybe you are right.

its all guesswork anyway regarding the financial position that raj is in anyway. as for the proposed loans a lot depends if they are interest free and how long are clubs allowed to pay em back. doubt a long term loan will affect most clubs but say having to pay em back in full in a couple of seasons could either kill off clubs, force em into part time or reduce the playing budget so much you might as well do the latter.

I would have thought clubs such as ours would be comfortable at this point, correct me if I'm wrong but we were given grants to see us through to the New Year, therefore will the season ticket money some of us paid up front (350-400k) still to a certain extent be unused?, it can't of already been spent?, or has it been accounted for in bringing extra players in and general day to day running?, or did those grants only make up a percentage of the funding needed to run a football club of our stature?, these are questions only the club can answer, whereas we can only speculate.

Let's all speculate as we are all good at it..

Not interest free and recouped from league solidarity payments apparently.

I don't care who you are Horden, why would I? If you don't believe what I'm telling you I'm not that bothered to be honest. I don't get why you have to claim people work for the club or whatever all the time to come up with a conspiracy theory if someone posts something you don't agree with. If you are under the mistaken impression that anyone from the Club would come on here to gauge your opinion on anything I'm betting you're living in fantasy land. I don't need to know anyone connected at the club to know that, it's obvious. And I don't need to justify myself to you either. The fact is if you talk crap about me you might expect a response. If you get one and don't like it that's fine but don't then go on like a big babby asking why I'm picking on you and singling you out. You're just a fan posting on a message board who is angrier than most it appears as the majority of other people's posts are just giving their opinions which is fair enough.

Yeah I can see that, but what I want to know is why that is? what is your agenda? what is it that has rattled your cage? Others don't agree with me, but they aren't as hostile as you. Why would I believe someone, who by their own admission has nothing to do with the club ? and why do my opinions, which are largely crap according to you, bother you so much?.

You don't know anyone at the club, but you are certain no one at the club would look on here, are you for real? The fact is they do , and if they had any sense they would take notice and possibly engage, rather than taking the , what the fook do they know attitude. Part of the reason fans like me take a punt on guessing what is wrong, is because the clubs communications are absolute shite.

You are either a liar, as regards to who you ( I am still awaiting that PM with your name ) are or you are a fraud.

Like many others in the past , you have come on here in an attempt to silence me, and like many others you have failed miserably, and ended up getting shredded.

My advice to you is to crawl back under the stone where you came from, with the rest of the snakes.

Just out of interest I would still like to know where the club is leaking money and the evidence Raj is a con man.

Why would I want to silence you Horden? Your like a cross between inspector clouseau and vicki pollard. You’re a very funny man. Keep up the good work.

The club leaks money, because it doesn't make money, if you had been listening, or maybe you were, but you are unable to process what I'm trying to say. Most clubs lose money, especially at this level, but if a club is run properly then any money lost can or could be recouped through income brought in from other revenue streams.

As for con man, I have never said he was a con man, again you haven't been listening, because you are too keen to criticise anything I say or maybe again you just don't get it. I mentioned on another post ( and on reflection I probably should've used another word ) the con that is Raj Singh, that was said in relation to the general feeling about the man, who it seems is viewed by 99% of our fans as the second coming of Christ, I don't see it that way, but that doesn't mean I think the bloke is a con or has ulterior motives, I have never said that, but apart from saving the club, he hasn't improved anything off the field, least of all communications, its coming to something when fans get all moist about the club putting out a statement on the OS, that includes a piece from the Singh himself, thinking of it, I think Jesus probably did make more appearances in public than Singh.Clearly the upturn in fortunes off the field, has given power to the elbow of his blindly loyal army and my enemies, and I being the clubs No 1 critic, seem to be bearing the brunt of that at the moment. Again lets see where we are at the end of the season, though at the moment it seems unlikely we will get to that point.


I hope Singh makes a success of HUFC, because they are the club I have supported for almost 50 years, Covid has bought him some time , we will see what he is really about when normality returns, I hope things then improve off the field and that I am proved wrong in thinking that Singh will be the Chairman that takes us under, take us under not because he is a con or has ulterior motives, but because I think he isn't cut out to be a Chairman of a football club.

[quote="Double Figures"]I've no connection to HUFC and don't know Mr. Singh from Adam. I'm a professional person with a varied commercial experience and have previously valued several lower league football clubs as well as non-league, along with other commercial facilities attached to football league grounds.

Fascinating stuff Mr Figures. Outside of sale or estate matters, why would clubs be valued? I appreciate that as a professional you cannot disclose specific details but could you provide some more information perhaps on a generic level? These are interesting subjects and I am sure that we would benefit from your knowledge.

And given that you are not linked with HUFC, have you offered your expertise to HUST or a similar body?

Thank you Mr Figures

he has a lot of questions but gets very few answers though,

Singh has chosen option 2. This, as we now know is a loan to be paid back from future league income and if this option happens then HUFC will lose income for years to come.

That will be someone else’s problem though, Singh won’t be around to sort that out.

Horden gets a lot of stick for basically saying how it’s been for years at pools. Zero ambition from the club for about 10 years and the club being almost a joke. You just have to look at the state of the club now compared to the ior days and let’s be honest they started this slide, despite giving us some of the best years.

I just think Horden wants the best for us like we all do, raj the players, the manager should all realise they will be heroes if they get us out of this mediocre league, they should also realise a lot of fans won’t accept non league obscurity for years too, things have to improve at pools, let’s hope being 2nd in the league is the start of better times.

Anyone can say how it is and then criticise everyone else for showing a lack of ambition. That's easy isn't it? The difficult bit is the doing - delivering something. At the moment some people don't even want to contribute to the club in its current position. That's up to them.

To answer Brian's question I valued clubs usually for second charges when they were looking for short term funding. This was in the 2000's and included Rotherham in 2005/6. They had a fair few issues at the time - some of them well known. There's no problem with me saying that given how long ago it was, but I can't give specifics.The alternative use value of the ground was always a consideration but I was more concerned with cashflow and how they could service the debt in addition to their primary debtor - usually the bank in terms of their overdraft and any loans made against their assets. The reality is that clubs at our level don't make a huge amount in terms of commercial revenue compared to gate receipts and income from TV/ league. I don't think much has changed in terms of overheads either and managing the playing budget remains the greatest expense. I've seen situations where 2 players are making up more than 50% of the entire wage budget- usually free transfers. Good management of a club isn't always visible for obvious reasons.

A club not owning its ground isn't a bar to funding, nor does it mean they can't apply for grant funding from football authorities for ground improvements. As long as they have sufficient term of lease, which I think Pools have. So no owner needs the ground other than to use as security for loans.

I don't understand what the issue is with Raj Singh's investment being a loan either. That's standard. Look at Boro. Gibson's holding company is owed about £100million. They have 75% ownership in the club so if it was eventually sold they'd recoup their debt before the remainder was distributed between shareholders in the usual way. He gives them a letter every year saying he isn't looking to recoup it in the next 12 months. Standard stuff.

I don't think there is much I could contribute to HUST that they wouldn't already know. Covid is at least making people concentrate on what a sustainable model might look like for clubs moving forward. I can only see there being some level of cap placed on first team wages for all clubs within a league. It's then certainty of funding that clubs need and a more equal share in revenues from the higher divisions. Taxing of transfer fees looks like an option that FIFA support as a contribution in addition to sharing television monies. Government needs to get involved as clubs like ours benefit the community in lots of ways and their loss would have a huge impact on their local areas.

And I don't answer daft questions Accrington. For what possible reasons would I ever need to justify myself to Horden? He's a fella on a message board who likes to accuse people of stuff because they don't agree with him or challenge his opinions, or they don't post regularly enough for his liking, or they haven't got enough ambition, or there's a d in the day etc I'm just here to offer a different point of view, he knows that.

When your season is voided are you going to spend even more time on here saying the same thing? We know what you think about your ex-chairman - you, Loan Star and the rest have told us often enough.

Anyone with half a brain would of chosen option 2 sat 2nd in the league. Why would we give up the chance of gaining promotion when we have already payed 20 games? signed a forward that’s got 6 in 6 games but would never play again for us if it was voided?If darlo were about to play Man U tomorrow and 60000 virtual tickets had been sold would they still have the same stance? No of course they wouldn’t and before they say anything we know your in the tin pot cup 5th round with about 6k at stake.

Option 2 off the table, think that's the knockout blow.

"An overwhelming majority of National North & South clubs rejected the option of loans.

The idea of the League taking on a loan is therefore now off the table.

If no suitable funding is found, the League will offer clubs a formal vote ‘on the permanent position of the season.’"

Answers on a postcard if you think you know what "the permanent position of the season" means but if it's another simple majority vote the likes of Welling United and Blyth Spartans (a win apiece all season in their part-time leagues) decide the future for the likes of Pools. Unbelievable.

Alright lads, win today at Weymouth and Raj can send send the lawyers in to demand Pools win promotion back to League Two by virtue of finishing second - just like Harrogate Town last season.

Sounds to me like it means, how they will abandon the season, whilst at the same maintaining some sort of credibility. PPG sounds like a plan, but that kicks in after clubs have played 30 + games or so , but Pools have only played 17 , so 30 games is a million miles off. Maybe they could change the rules for PPG to kick in with less games, such as 20 or 25, but personally I wouldn't like to get promoted this way, it doesnt sit easily with me.

As for the voting why should Pools have more of a say than Welling and Blyth?

its a football club messageboard at the end of the day. its really a continuation from a match. no matter how pools do in the game there will be a number of camps people will be in. there will be the happy clappy types who always make some excuse for the club and players. then there are others who basically take heart from a defeat to prove their points. at the end of the day every point on here is as valid as another with everyone really behind the club in their own way. imagine a life without pools. us exiles go to different not pools games but it just aint the same i can tell you.

I wholeheartedly agree with you Accrington.

National leagues have more invested than the two leagues below. The hierarchy running the league need to go. If they can’t help the clubs plan financially what’s the point of them being there? I mean they thought they’d been offered grants but it turns out they were loans. Eh? Didn’t they think to get something in writing 3 months ago and get a legal view so everyone knew where they stood? Clubs have signed players and entered in to contracts thinking they were going to be funded. When does the board of the league resign?

This the tin pot cup you would have been more than happy to win?

Anyway this is nothing to do with Singhs track record, why should clubs take on a debt to finish the season because the national league cant organise a piss up in a brewery?
The chances are a few clubs being made to take these loans would be trading insolvently which would be illegal too.
Will be interesting to see if Singhs viewpoint changes now that the league won't be taking the loans on behalf of the club.

Thank you Mr Figures. Were you looking at Rotherham before or after the ground development - or at funding that? Interesting answer. I wondered if you were looking at going concern/ re-sale valuations - as for sale or purchase activity on behalf of vendors or acquirers but I guess that you were working for the potential funders.

It was during. It’s hard for me to remember all of the detail but at the time I think Hall Construction were building the stand which was 80% complete, but they weren’t on site.....that stand was funded mainly by grant funding from the league, which they probably had no obligation to pay back. They had portakabins for changing rooms which made pools look good. And a damp gym in the corner of the ground I recall. I valued it but like I said it was more about cash flow and servicing debt. It shortly followed their owner publicly withdrawing his financial support and I think the ground was owned by him or his business and leased to the club. There’s a bit on their Wikipedia page about that time. They were eventually saved by a local consortium. What someone will pay for a club varies on their personal and business interests so they aren’t easy things to value. Plus there is usually a complicated debt position to staff and players current and departed as well as the bank/ brewery etc. They are high profile loss making businesses in the main, but they generate cash and give the owners a profile. Some owners want to give something back too to be fair but I don’t know Mr. Singh’s personal motivation. Hopefully he doesn’t want to be remembered for what happened at Darlo.

I'd far prefer Pools to win promotion on merit at the end of a full season, but that didn't stop Barrow and Harrogate from gratefully accepting promotion last season. I realise that season was a lot further on but they didn't truly win anything either.

I think the question now is do the National Leagues have a future, board ineptitude has brought things to that point. How are part-time clubs in Tier 6 deemed 'elite' but very similar clubs a tier lower not? There's not a jot of sympathy for them in Tiers 7 and below, who have already had their seasons stopped. No solidarity with the rest of non-league was shown then and you have to wonder whether the majority of National League (Tier5) clubs who want to play on will just passively accept a majority vote now.

The 2 week pause after today now looks inevitable but if the government don't blink and cough up more cash the season is effectively over. Is that really the end of the matter? I doubt it.

If Raj has sorted the debt out he's done more in the last 10 years than any other owner. That will give the best chance of another investor coming on board. If I'd done that and invested my own money at risk I'd have treated the approach from unknown investors in a similar way. If tehy wanyted to make a sensible approach to teh owner and sign a non disclosure agreement he'd have had discussions with them I'd imagine. If they didn't do that they weren't seriously interested and whoever it was would have just been saying 'they were talking to a number of clubs'. The announce,ent at Wrexham came pretty soon afterwards. How's that going I wonder?

While we are sat 2nd in the league and winning week in week out, I reckon Singh will take that chance, promotion is probably worth a fortune. Things could quickly change if we lose today and start slipping down the league though, but whilst we have a team winning with a chance of league football then he be daft not too. We were rubbish for a month of the season and are still 2nd will we ever get a better chance?

If we wanted to have a go at the tin pot trophy we wouldn't play half of our reserves for it, maybe if we get stuck in this league for another 10 year it may start interesting us.

I can see your point about Barrow and Harrogate, though in fairness they had been at and around the top of the table virtually all season , and despite not being a big fan of play offs, I feel vindicated when the team finishing in the place immediately below the automatic promotion places wins the play offs.

I can't see the government coughing up, and as for loans, every person with half a brain cell, knows the worst advice you can give to someone struggling to pay the bills, is take out a loan. This is why I have never been a fan of a FL div 5 or 3 as it would be now called, you could end up with the same situation in the EFL, with a huge disparity between the clubs in terms of stature , support and finances. The NL should not be classed as Elite football , but it is, and I suspect the fact that their is TV interest in the league has a lot to do with it.

A 2 week pause does seem a good idea in the interim, and a lot of goodwill needs to come into play when the Chairman make their decision, however given the nature of Chairman, I very much doubt common sense and empathy will play much of a part , more down to what it means to them individually than as a collective, they could agree on one thing, that of making money, but this fundamentally is about losing money, and I expect an I'm all right Jack approach when it comes to voting on this.

If anything good can come out of this, its the realisation that the NL and the NLN and NLS isn't really fit for purpose in a world after Covid. There is professional football and semi professional football, with the NL you have a mix of the two, and that is problematic.

Weymouth ?? Easy money ..

6k is a fortune ..many thanks.

Do you really want me to go through the list of results you have had recently? I don’t deny today’s result is probobly one of the most embarrassing we have ever had, but come on start winning a few games before you start trying to take the piss because I get the impression if you do start your season again in a couple of weeks it won’t be long before some village outfit beats you.

Is this a question regarding Darlo making it to the 2nd round of the FA Cup ,or their presence in the last 16 of the FA Trophy?