Was the £2m an investment or a loan? Remember the Darlo situation.

And what equity stake - and with what anti-dilution safeguards - does £200K buy?

Who are the fans groups and their representatives?

According to Mark Maguire previously on the pools official podcast, Mr Singh was making "donations".

Aye - so they weren't loans - which as any Darloid will point out - are repayable. But the accounts show loans.........

Maybe you should ask the same question's on the loids site mr honour.

It's a friendly place just like here.

https://www.hufcsupporterstrust.org.uk/ ... 21-05-2020

Trust , North West Corner , Supporters Association and a message board ( not this one )

What are anti-dilution safeguards?

Meat on the bones required but in principle if he’s offering like for like equity then it’s a good offer. As has been said above, I’d want a contractual guarantee that equity cannot be diluted and the shares should be linked to the holding company.

That Singh can't just decide, having sold say 5% of the shares, to issue another big tranche of shares to himself without at least giving the option to the other shareholders to buy them as well in proportion to the amount they already own. Otherwise, any majority owner can just issue more and more shares that they buy up themselves until the 5% (or whatever) owned by the minority owner(s) dwindles away into a much smaller shareholding with less influence.

If like for like - with anti-dilution - and, as you say, equity in C18 - and he has to defer or completely capitalise his loans/ donations/ investments.

And the new equity must be held by one body - otherwise it immediately becomes diluted.

And will he go for that - and a representative seat on the board and access all areas?

Now let me think....................

He has failed and now he wants the fans to pick up the tab and run the club , when to all intents and purposes it is too late to turn things around. Its a big ask , but what we need is a new owner , someone with a knowledge and a passion for football and someone who knows what they are doing in respect of running a football club.

I can see this stirring up trouble again between the Trust and the anti Trust fans sadly. Don’t know how we can have one group to represent the fans the way things have gone before. Could it work if the people who attended the meeting with Raj work together to make one group?

Lots of questions to ask.

I’m told that it’s an annual commitment. So it’s not 200k it’s actually 200k per annum.

I notice on the statement that it says that sage have a charge on the ground. That’s impossible As it’s council owned. Do they mean fixtures? If so what fixtures? I’m not sure Whether the stands are owned by the council or the club. Either way, it would cost more than the scrap value to pull down the stands so where is the value?

Lots of question. Now for the answers... real answers.

We will never get any real answers until the club is owned and run by the fans. Would any other business seriously expect people to "invest" £200,000 a year with absolutely no transparency in where the money is spent. The only financial information they publish is the bare minimum to satisfy the relevant regulations, it tells us absolutely zero about the income and outgoings of the club. I have always found it strange that the people who have owned the club like to tell us that they are putting in a million pounds a year but never publish a full set of accounts to show where this money goes.

Is that the same as the fantasy £250k you promised pools from trust which was bollocks and therefore lost all credibility with anyone at pools

Exactly.

the problem for pools and many other clubs is where the knight in shining armour is going to come from to turn the club round. people had the chance to come in before singh took over. doubt the club looks a better prospect now than before raj arrived. its just more ammunition for my pheonix club idea. at least then we would not be riddled by debt which never seems to go away. if the fans stayed with the club we could be back where we are now in about 4 or 5 years. does anyone think at the present rate of investment that the club will ever be more than a mid table outfit in that period. think a debt free new club would be a much better prospect for a decent new owner than pools are at present. clubs that have had owners that are really minted like forest green, fleetwood and salford really started with clubs from day one who had low debts and not in the millions. business folk are not stupid.

so its really like putting season tickets up for 2,000 fans by 100 quid.

"So its really like putting season tickets up for 2,000 fans by 100 quid".

I was just thinking exactly that this morning, I'm sure if we go back to when our recent troubles started, it coincides with the start of the cheap season tickets. Probably a consequence of rather than the cause of our current financial situation.

I didn’t promise anything. I suggested that £250k was possible via a community share issue based on the track record of funds raised via this method at other similar clubs. I still think that’s possible as it has happened a number of times so no, not a fantasy.

Sorry you know that’s crap and made the trust look like fools.

Also you need to say you and bunker have nothing to do with the trust as you in your past behaviour have caused a divide and stopped people joining. Which now in this time needs to stop and we all need to be united in helping the club

At that point in time pools were going to the wall and it was before RS stepped in and before the Rachel Cartwright appeal. Jeff Stelling was on board as a figurehead and was willing to get involved in publicity for local companies who bought a community share. It was very possible at that stage but to say that I promised is nonsense. That was the figure I thought we could raise and there are plenty of precedents where it had happened before.

That’s not the full story.

In the beginning there was me, Phil Dunn and Chip and it was a response to the TMB thing. We tried everything to bridge the message board gap, there were invitations to every single group to be involved. We tried very hard not to fight with anyone but got dogs abuse from certain quarters. There was a lot of discussions on Facebook and elsewhere with us answering questions and ignoring the abuse. There were physical attacks at games and plenty of threats. I even arranged to meet the Facebook group one day but that could happen because one of their spokespeople has a family illness that day.

Eventually I’d had enough of pandering to people who were clearly against us and after a particular attack took place I stopped trying to make peace with them and answer their criticism with a bit of my own. That might have been the wrong thing to do in retrospect but if you’re going to have a pop at me then fine, but do it in context.

As for people not joining, we got the membership up to 1000 by doing presentations and a lot of-positive publicity.

I am not having a pop at all I think that comes from your obvious feelings internal about it. I was saying I think your involvement and behaviour caused fractions and now is time you need to be clear that you and bunker have nothing to do with trust and therefore stopping people who have beef with you and board not joining

Jesus, the whole point of inviting someone from all groups on day one was to try and avoid the perception that it was a bunker thing. I don’t know how many thousand times we said it. We asked someone from every single facet of pools support to try and separate it. From memory it was Brian Minton who we invited from the then Facebook group.

If people really love their club that much they should just buy a new season ticket anyway regardless of when the season will start. To be fair we've been paying reduced prices for a good few seasons now ( think it was only £150 a few seasons ago), for example Newcastle fans paid roughly v£659-£811 for their average seats up there(2019/20), okay I know its Premiership football but that's roughly 3x times what we pay, an extra £100 to get us through this difficult period is a relatively small price to pay surely? (obviously for those who can afford it of course).

As for my behaviour, that completely ignores the fact that anything I said was a reaction to the abuse I and others got and still get. It wasn’t an ego trip it was an attempt to put something in place for the disaster that was coming down the tracks.

I did many thousands of miles back then with no expense claims often getting home in the early hours of the morning and no end of work on documents to set up the trust and get the ACV in place with the council. Others did plenty too and were unappreciated. If that’s a glamour our ego trip then you can keep it.

By the way, here’s an example of a similar sized club doing exactly what I was suggesting and ironically for a similar amount.

https://railwaymen.co.uk/wp-content/upl ... e-v1.0.pdf

I realise that , that's why I said its a big ask, and money will be at a premium after the pandemic. The main problem at Pools though over the years ( IOR excepted ) is we have generally had owners who really don't know how to run a football clubs as business that not only makes money , but doesn't waste it either. They are addressing it now, though I seem to remember them saying they were going to increase revenue streams a couple of years ago , but nothing has happened ,except that revenue streams have more than likely got worse. It just all seems a little too late now, hence they are passing the buck onto the fans. Its either a new owner or a fans run club , otherwise all I can see is more pain and misery as the club continues to die a slow death. The clubs you mention Accrington do have money behind them , but they are also well ran. I see business as generally like this

1.MONEY + KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR PRODUCT/PASSION = Success
2.One or the other MONEY or KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR PRODUCT/PASSION = Could go either way
3. NO MONEY + NO KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR PRODUCT / NO PASSION = You're fooked

Above applies to supporters run clubs as well , a supporters run club doesn't guarantee success or financial stability , you just worry ours would buck the trend of other supporters run clubs and be a right debacle.

If that’s true then I apologise but your reaction and how you talk insult people and rub them up wrong way, like on here. Insulting people and putting people as mods who clearly shouldn’t be, allowing racist, homophobic comments from some and banning others doing less. You had the keys to the biggest voice of supporters (this board) but have pissed off all the worthwhile contributors and others who weren’t involved in my opinion.

Part of the issue Compo is education, people who react with their heart rather than the brain will in most cases react with anger, threats and disregard facts.
The facebook group doesn't help, fake accounts, FTT comments and trust members don't go to games etc.
Getting through to some people is like picking up a turd by the clean end!

Here’s the thing Compo. This place has been going for 15 years with very light touch moderation. It’s been in the main light hearted but recently it’s turned nasty. Yes some posters have been deleted but again that underestimated the people who don’t post because of the constant abuse. I can be accused of many things and some of them rightly but no one can say that they weren’t warned.

I received quite a few messages on here, via messenger and by phone telling me in generality that this abuse and non stop harping on with the anti government message was out of hand. Some were from people on here from day one.

No one has been deleted because they support Labour. If that was the case Mr Horden would have been long gone but he isn’t because personally I respect his view And his approach despite disagreeing with him in content.

Very true and what I was going to say. The two biggest people pissing people off are either mods or best mates it’s wrong

agree especially on the clubs i mentioned. over the last 20 odd years there has not been many basket case clubs turned round by any type of ownership . doncaster is one that come to mind and possibly lincoln, but most have just rumbled along owned by this or that making loses year in year out. not many mind shelving money out but not paying off debts of previous bad ownership.

The ones who were banned were not banned for any other reason that that which I have already stated or by request.

I agree with you Mr Accrington. The club was raped by Coxberg and their debts and bad contracts would have been better being dumped. Carrying all this debt forward is limiting at best.

With a clean slate the club should be sustainable. It has a peppercorn rent and 3000 through the doors each game. Look at Darlo. They started from the bottom and are now close to Pools level. Their big limiting factor has always been that they don’t have a ground. Pools do because JPNG couldn’t mortgage it. We pay 18k a year to the council and I suspect that fans would pay a bit more in ticket prices for a successful club. Debt free the club should fly with the right management.

Why hasn’t The mod Derwent been banned then this place has become a farce and a joke of what it was

This would have me very worried if I was a pools fan. Singh has loaned the club £2m and wants others to donate money for what is basically a piece of paper saying thank you. Is he prepared to write off the loan? Why should the fans, very few of them will have a sizable chunk of disposable money to give to the club, just give their money away while the man who calls the shots just get away with loaning the club his money?
I know you were between a rock and a hard place at the time but you were warned about Singhs methods and here we are two years on and its like Darlo all over again.

Harping on about the government you are the biggest fisherman going people in glass houses. You have ruined your own board

Ok. It’s all my fault.

Mr Compo
Since the Mod derwent came into existence can you show me where the Mod derwent has pissed you off personally. Highlight the thread (s) in question so we can all see the full context of the discussions in which I have pissed you off. You can also highlight the ones where I have personally thanked you and praised you for the great work you are doing to fight covid 19.

Yes and I thank you for that but to say since before your stance on being civil you haven’t annoyed people is Michael Gove levels of masking the truth. Can’t you see how quiet it is on here and all the people you like to read are gone. It’s all crap jokes and Mr I fishing lately

Back to the point for a moment.

I’d like to see some clarity on share distribution. If this 800k is ‘invested’ would that give an even number I’d share compared to the entire contribution of the holding company’s input. For example: if the total investment in company Y was £10 and I had chucked in £3, I would expect 30% of the shares. Is that the way this will work?

Also how are the share going to be held? Individually or a group?

Not that quiet...

Jokes are not crap, Amazon selling sense of humour!