That's like saying I'm happy for someone else to shoulder the burden as long as I'm not financially involved. Wealthy chairmen don't grow on trees.
This guy put his money down when no-one else was prepared to, let's not forget that.
He did allude to something like shares in the club in that interview, now if you were a shareholder you would legitimately have a say in how the club is run.

I take no pleasure in this but my view all along was that the club is unsustainable in its current form. I preferred the Phoenix option with a part time setup and no debts. Yes we would have dropped a few leagues but been in a great position with a cheap ground and community support. There are plenty of examples where this has happened and clubs have come back far stronger. Don’t forget that there is still the huge albatross round the clubs neck of the sage debt so any cup runs will only benefit Sage. I do believe that Raj Singh is doing his very best but he can’t afford a million a year indefinitely.

History is lovely but it’s becoming more and more apparent that unless a friendly sheik is passing then you have to be realistic. The most direct comparison is Darlo. They started without a ground and I honestly believe that if they had been in our position; Feethams being owned by the council, they’d probably be a league club by now.

We will always have the roller coaster situation at Pools, until either a huge fan like one of us wins the euromillions or we become a fan owned club, which is near enough the same principle but with less financial clout.
I would support a share issue if the club was rid of the debt millstone hanging round it's neck.
These rich boys coming along wanting to buy clubs is ok but when the going gets tough their interest wanes a little, or the FA let us down by allowing crooks through their own so called safety net.
There going to be massive changes after this crisis, the level of which will be game changing.

Objectively speaking perhaps a phoenix club is the route we may well have to take in time. I could stomach it. I expected it to happen before now but Raj managed to keep the wolves at bay. Perhaps it was futile, especially with the current crisis exacerbating things.

As you say letting go of our history might be painful in the short term. But if it comes down to throwing good money after bad to delay the inevitable, or pressing the reset button and starting lower down the pyramid. I know which I'd take.

Publicly all chairmen are to going to speak like Raj is here. I heard the Accrington chairman the other day and he was the same.

Without serious financial help the prognosis for every lower league club is grim. The pyramid as we know it will be gone.

They are trying to get as much money as possible filtered down from the top.

I think the reality is that without a bailout from the top a lot of clubs will go to the wall. Gary Neville was banging the drum for some kind of bailout for lower league clubs the other week. He spoke well on it. Worth a watch if you can find the video for it.

Football reflects society in general in this regard. Those at the top who have profited immensely from the current system and have hordes of wealth are going to have to relinquish some of that wealth if they want the status quo to continue. If they do nothing, well, I'd expect massive public backlash when people start opening their eyes to the vast inequality on show.

Probably the retained list will be out next week carnt see many being retained.

I expect a smaller squad but the bulk of a team that was starting to show promise to be retained.

Featherstone has already signed a new deal to start things off.

Yes he saved us , we never stop hearing that from some quarters , but as I have said many times before, all he is doing is delaying the inevitable by keeping the club on a life support machine for couple of years. If the club was run well , then it gives us a chance , but it isn't run well, and it seems for every quid coming in , a fiver is going out. I know people who have had shares in the club for years , but they have little say in the running of the club , there was a period when the club didn't even hold AGM's , generally the only chance a shareholder has to see what's going on with their investment. Singh for me has started the process of pulling out , only now is he prepared to take the Trusts money as part of a damage limitation exercise for Singh but ultimately could see the Trusts money disappear if the club go bankrupt , money that would then not be there to set up a phoenix club. Singh is an absent chairman who just leaves the running of the club to Maguire , the bloke who promised to bring in new revenue streams a year ago but so far there is little evidence he has. Singh needs to either bring in someone who can increase revenue or become more involved on a day to day basis himself. One man is basically running the club here and he's not doing it very well.

I think size wise the last club similar to us that became a phoenix club was Hereford? They did 3 consecutive promotions if I remember rightly, don't ever seem stable in the National League North though.

What angers me is we shouldn't be having this thread, the PL would have enough money to cover everything, I mean, just remember the time Richard Scudamore wanted a 5 mil parting gift?

The idea of a regionalized non league top flight sounds good though, more derby's (so higher attendances when crowds come) while still playing bigger clubs like Stockport, Notts County, Chesterfield etc.

Another positive is no more long travel, and no Ebbsfleet...

I agree wholeheartedly. I feel we've really thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

it seems its been ingrained in us that by destroying the economoy of the country and potentially millions of job, we are saving the NHS. And for what, if the long term is an absolute depression the likes of which non one alive has seen or lived through? Not sure how the NHS will be paid for should such doomsday scenario occur.

The way some people are talking you would think meltdown was long over due and some appear to be going to enjoy it. Well I am not happy at the prospect of my children and grandchildren living in some distopian almost post apocolyptic future brought about by decisions made by people from my era. I know this is extreme, but its well worth debating. Hopefully obviously it doesnt come to this. But who gives a f*** about a world with no sport, no pubs, no holidays etc etc.

But hey we are all in this toegther right?

In reality, the NHS shouldn't even need saving, the same way firemen should of never had to visit grenfell tower because flammable cladding shouldn't of been there (sprinklers should of been there too). But saying that is just beating a deadhorse at this point. I know this is also another dead horse, but fuck, seeing the Tories say how much they love the NHS is like Joe Exotic saying he's always supported PETA and the WWF.

And you're right, at first I thought people were trying to make the most out of a bad scenario. But I've seen so many people change for the worst this year, sacrifice their principals, etc. People have changed already, and they've changed for the worst.

That's what bothers me, the hypocrisy of it all, the same people who voted for a good 10 years a party that treat the NHS like dog shite now call people who don't clap traitors.

WFA this is a discussion about pools as to which you dont support but we do and we care about our club so please let us discuss something we care about, other threads are about politics so please post your political views accordingly.

I don't see a NL campaign until 2021 at earliest, because last time I checked they wanted crowds back no matter what, for that we apparently need a vaccine.

But even now, and before football returns there will be far more mundane and unessential jobs done.

I'd say we're bigger than Hereford and better supported than Bury although the latter are more historically successful.

Not sure I count Stockport/Chesterfield as much bigger though Notts undoubtedly are.

I think Mr Remote might have meant bigger than average, not bigger than Pools.

Correct, I have some family in Hereford and we're a bit bigger than they are...as much as they call themselves the "real HUFC" despite the fact they were formed in 1922.

As for Chesterfield Notts and Stockport, I meant in comparison to other northern National League clubs. I also forgot York, who are roughly the same size as us I think.



Yeah. Last time I checked we have the fourth highest attendance in the National League and we also have a bigger online presence too. This is certainly the divisions most active forum.

Fair enough. Yeah I agree about York overall.

Definitely regionalisation is the way to go.

I'd take the top half of the division below and all northern/midland NL clubs here and make a new, much more interesting league rather than the likes of Eastleigh taking 15 fans to us on a Saturday.

Certainly. Nearly every game I've really enjoyed at the Vic the past few seasons have been northern opposition. Ebbsfleet, Aldershot, Dover and Dagenham were dire here this season.

I like the idea of north/south divisions whats the point of playing the likes of dover/torquay other than a good week end away,would rather play york/south shields and lets be honest they would be far better games.

You got me on to something here. I've got a lot of time on my hands so I regionalised the leagues below the Championship.

Championship to have 4 relegation places. 2 up from each league. Champions automatic. 2-5 in PO.

4 down from L1, 2 into the north, 2 into the south. Again same thing, Champions promoted, 2-5th have a play off. What do you reckon?

Madjohn i see your point how ever for pools geographical location surely it has to be more practical for us even now look a the national league and the amount of travelling we have to do so it has to be a plus for pools.

Sad really. Mind you, I haven’t been to a match this season and my season ticket is unused. I won’t be going next season either, but the season ticket will be bought.

How are kings lynn in the south when they are further north than kiddeminster?

Kidderminster is easier to get to than King's Lynn for Northern clubs.

Stockport are bigger, IMO Chesterfield possibly though not by much, Hereford about the same, and Bury possibly smaller. IMO Pools would only get 5500 of their own supporters tops , if we were playing in the Championship

Regionalisation at national league and in the EFL at L1 and L2 the way forward. Back to the Future!

Regionalisation at national league and in the EFL at L1 and L2 the way forward. Back to the Future!

Wont it just be the equivalent of the old northern premier league?

Which I believe used to be one step up from the wearside league.

Not sure how much people would be prepared to pay to watch that, especially with many out of work and those in work on 20%reduced sl
Salaries.

Hereford are smaller, traditionally NL club, lower crowds. Not sure you can argue Stockport are bigger now but they were at one time.

We were getting 5500 average some seasons in L1. I'd expect more if we were Championship but let's face that'll never happen.

Will Solihull have to recruit extra players so they will be able to play in both National League North and South?

Looks good to me mr half spaces.

It doesn't really matter , its all much for muchness, but Hereford were getting gates of 7 and 8000 when they were in non league prior to them getting into the FL. They were getting gates of 2000+ when they were struggling in NLN. I don't think we have more than 5500 supporters max, that is what I believe we would've got had we made it to the championship in a game with no away fans.

at the moment that figure of 5500 might be correct. those who only come to the odd game or the half dozen like me would go to more if there was a succesful team to watch. there would be others that come who are classed as glory hunters if pools where doing well and other local teams were not. its all talk anyway as i,ve got more chance to win the euro millions than ever seeing pools in the championship even in my grandchildrens life.

The 5500 was based on my own research carried out during our so called golden period 2001- 2005 , there was one game when we were riding high and there were hardly any away supporters, and the gate was 5400 I think, and I remember thinking to myself this is probably as many supporters as we could possibly hope for on a consistent basis if we were top of league 1 , 2 or struggling in the Championship. interest was at an all time high , weather was nice and there really was no excuse for no one who loved football in Hartlepool not to be at that game at the time. IMO at that game we had hoovered up every last single supporter in the town we could.

if pools did manage to average 4000 every home game it will be nowhere like the same 4000 that turn up every game. only a so called big match gets everyone out giving a 5500 type figure. size of the town and other clubs around make the figures we the moment or in the future about right.

How many of these chairmen have a track record of pulling the plug on a club?

Not when your club is at its peak, and top of the table, 5000-5500 became the norm, same as Sunderland were getting 45-47000 every week when they were at their peak under Reid and Boro 30000 under Robson etc

I think it’s clear that Raj’s main concern is his care homes and that’s fair enough. He’s getting hit financially from all sides at the moment so Pools need additional Substantial investment to survive long term. That much was clear as day from the interview.

I'd dread to be in the care home sector at the moment. I heard one carer saying he was in Afghanistan and that was less stressful on Look North I think.

Raj is definitely under pressure and has to cut his cloth accordingly.

Its certainly not the residents

interviewer: "One of your other lines of business is care homes across Teesside, how is that going because that must be a challenging time at the moment".

RS: "One of the care homes we have got, we've had some deaths in there....17 residents........17 beds empty basically.....that equates to £10,000-£11,000 per week, and you can do the maths, that is over half a million pound a year and that's just one home". "

That puts us back in with Boston and Darlo... never thought I would see the day.

You can have both Mr Horden. Without question he’s in the care homes for a profit but standards are managed by the CQC inspections. I’m not expert but I’m told that they are quite stringent.

thats the only problem as it would feel pools have been relagated once again.

I think a bigger problem for you is the fact that Singh is yet again calling loans an investment, circa £2m now. Add that on to the Sage debt and its eyewatering amounts for a club the size of Hartlepool.
Us Darlo fans invest in our club and our return on investment is hopefully getting better quality players into the club to watch on match days, we don't loan the club money and expect a return or call the loan in when we get strapped for cash at home.
If this was Singhs first venture into football he could be forgiven for making mistakes but he is using exactly the same methods with you that he did with us. How long before he decides to call in his loans again?

When you make a loan you normally have some asset value to back it up but Pools have virtually have no assets. So if he asks for his money back the club will fold.
How real is this £2m as these things can be created or increased via management charges from other companies in the "group".
It does give a starting point for negotiations to start with any prospective buyer.
Accounting in football seems to be a dark art.

Its what he did to us, all money put into the club was classed as a loan despite him coming out with the line "I own the football club so how can I lend myself money?". This time around all the money he has put in is classed as a loan from Clarence 18 which is a company he set up and I believe is sole shareholder. Add that to the debt to Sage and the club owes around £4m and is losing money hand over fist.