https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/status/1255147479466565636?s=21

Indeed. We had Toby Young last week trying to downplay the whole crisis by pointing out that more people had died by the same point in 2018 than in 2020. True, but at the same time horribly disingenuous.

NHS not at full capacity but only cos they are leaving old people to die in their thousands in care homes.

In my view and again not trying to defend government here but there are some key points to bear in mind. SARS and MERS never made it over here so why would there have been any reason in Jan/Feb to think this would and they were the most recent examples of anything like this. Nobody has ever seen it before so how can you judge it, how quickly and easily it could spread. The lower death rates in China could have lead people into a false sense of security. I have no idea why China was lower, could be they lied, could be that there is some immunity anyway to corona viruses as they've gone round before but not as severe as this one...who knows. Given it takes 25 days from infection to being in ICU by the time people really realised what had happened it was already almost too late. Even when italy took off that was 14 days before the UK, thats still 11 days of no action. PPE is in short supply and this should have been acted on quicker, especially with such high global demand, someone has to lose out and we have. I think those things drove some really bad decisions which should be questioned. I don't think any governement would have dealt well with it, but yes lives could proabably have been saved. Equally there are things we can't change. We have a densely populated country...and that's fine before people think that's a brexit type thing. We have high obesity and a certain amount of the population living longer but not living well which really isn't going to end well for a pandemic. Close proximity to other people that are at risk has been our ultimte downfall and only complete and utter isolation would have saved them, which just isn't realistic in the world.

So is governement incompitent. Probably yes. When you take into account the above, it was never going to go well whoever was in charge, especially as any govt would have followed "scientific advice". There's nothing wrong with the scientific advice either, they're just as much in the dark too and making the best choices they can too. Nobody has ever seen this before. So i don't think a political argument is appropriate at this time and there are a hell of a lot of factors which could change the outcome of all of this. But that's just my thoughts/views and i'm not likely to be right

Thanks for that, that's the most reasoned reply I've seen in weeks. I do agree that there are certain factors outside of the government's control, such as population density and general health etc.

I'll never understand the time that was wasted in the beginning of this outbreak though. We had over a week head start on Italy and Spain, and while hundreds died in their hospitals every day we were still going to the football, the pubs and Cheltenham Festival was still going ahead. I don't think the damage that carrying on for that week as normal can be understated. In an exponentially growing virus, we provided ample opportunity for it spread and it has and will cost lives and is probably the biggest factor behind us likely being the worst affected country in Europe. More than PPE shortages, more than ICU capacity and more than the availability of ventilators. The government simply allowed the virus to spread unchecked and we are seeing the results of this right now. That is indefensible and borderline criminally negligent for me.

Good to see Jhumps back. We need to hear more from middle managers working in comms, specially the sort who were arguing that a degree of privatisation was good for the NHS a few months back.

True, but some sort of interest in Pools usually helps to explain why they're here whereas Jhumps seems to be here to be the voice of middle managers. That's weird, I wouldn't want him banning or anything, it just seems odd that he bothers.

Richie Humphreys doesn't have a dad. He walked out of a cave in Sheffield at year 0.

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True, but some sort of interest in Pools usually helps to explain why they're here whereas Jhumps seems to be here to be the voice of middle managers. That's weird, I wouldn't want him banning or anything, it just seems odd that he bothers.

I'm pretty sure "Traffic Director" is just a posh title for "sign".

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He’s an arrow.

Slippery road

Tory rule?

Given that this is still only the number for hospital deaths, that is a depressingly high figure when you consider that we are three weeks past the peak.

I'm just watching Panorama now. Can someone please explain which of these facts are leftist propaganda?

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All need views need representing. Even middle managers. In real life my title has director in it so I’ve taken a step down in my views it seems. I need to be more directorial clearly.

And yes, I still think private elements works in a mix but not full privatisation. Already there in a lot of it without us noticing...but that’s for another day.

Finally I’m Ritchie’s less handsome cousin, but rest assured a pools fan.

Given that this is still only the number for hospital deaths, that is a depressingly high figure when you consider that we are three weeks past the peak.

The heads of department at my kids' school are called Director of....just business speak for a middle manager isn't it? Even Senior Vice Presidents only have to be in charge of three or four people. All time record is a bloke I worked with who was self-employed but signed off all his emails as President of the company.

And? Your point is what and how is that relevant to me exactly? Or is there a particular problem you have with me for no real reason that you keep going on for? Is it just that you disagree with me, which is fine, it happens? I just don’t get the now third post about it...

That's middle management for you mate. Zero sense of humour.

I'm not even sure its right to say the UK is past the peak.
Past peak deaths, yes, and I hope it stays that way; but the daily new cases are on a very solid looking plateau.
It's not rocket science to know why. Ask people in retrospect and they'll probably say if only they'd done the damn quarantine properly we'd have suffered being shut up tighter if it meant being shut up for a month less.

Is it possible that the new cases appearing to be on a plateau are being affected by the increased capacity for testing?.

That's the worst thing for me, we had time. That's where the inquiry should start. Economy over life will be the take home from this. As an island nation, and a relatively small one at that, we should have had this cut off at the source.