Hartlepool Mail - Part V - The Snag

Gums · **Joined:** Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:43 pm **Posts:** 39

loan_star wrote:

PJPoolie wrote:

How much of the £300,000 did you get back in future sell on clauses? That was why you took the debt on. Was it a gamble that didn’t pay off?

We must have sold ten players in the last 12 months do we reckon we bothered with sell on clauses? We probably didn’t have time we got them out of door so quick.

It wasnt anything like £300k but it came in very handy at the time when it did come through, a clause on Dan Burn making so many appearances for Fulham and a transfer clause on Stockdale.
Ironically we could have made a stack more had Burn been sold instead of Fulham letting him run his contract down.

In the end we did break even as near as dammit from the clauses we received from the player sales and appearances. The debt wasn’t specifically taken on for that reason, that just turned out to be a stroke of good fortune. The original plan was just to buy the assets of the old company and leave the rest as we were told that would allow us to carry on playing but be demoted from the Conference into the Evostik Premier. Then it became apparent to do that we’d also have to TUPE the player contracts over which almost scuppered the deal until they agreed a structured repayment. Worse was still to come when we were then informed that despite this we were classed as a new club and had to start from the Northern League. In hindsight I’m glad we did what we did even though it was a shambles at the time and we got lucky with the transfer clauses.

Stevo1 · **Joined:** Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:28 pm **Posts:** 6

billygoatblue wrote:

No way are Sage losing 130k a month, IOR were subsidising us with about a million a year in our hay day, you seriously suggesting sage are paying more for this squad than that which got to Cardiff..

You are forgetting my friend that the 'costs' are only half of the issue. The revenue is dramatically lower now than in the football league. I would say a 130k a month loss is very possible.

PJPoolie · **Joined:** Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:28 pm **Posts:** 15342

Snailwood2 wrote:

IOR were able to put the money in via sponsorship and funding and claim it against their tax bill. There are other reasons but you will need to search Google for Berge Larsen for those. Mr Hodcroft said at one time that owning the club was an excellent way to advertise themselves and invite clients and use as a topic of conversation. In the good days IOR had excellent publicity.

Obviously in the bad times the process was to maintain the League position.

Many football clubs are ways for company to reduce their tax bill.

As for Sage, Pam said that was the amount being lost by the club when she took over. There were players on wages that made a profit only possible via a high sell on fee or unprecedented success in Cops or League.

We are now in the Conference and next season without a parachute payment the income will be so much lower, which presumably Sage haven't accounted for.

If they were to take their monthly loan interest from the club on a £1.8million loan at presumably a decent rate the money will soon evaporate as their has been little extra income they have generated this season.

The 120-130 was not what Sage would be losing on the club structure, just what Pam inherited when she took over the finances.

There is no way they can ever get their whole loan back without the discovery of a wonder player in the youth team or an owner willing to invest crazy money.

There are still players at the club on crazy wages for this level. I just don't think people realise how high the wage bill is.

Did Pam not realise in the summer when we put togther a playing squad of 29 players?

Did Pam not realise how big the wage bill was when we employed Paul Watson as Head of Recruitment, how much is he on and what are his perks? How much is Pam on come to think of it? He's pretty hopeless at recruiting as well isn't he? Players and managers. Going on about the wage bill does not cut it with me, they were in a position to do something about that in the summer if she was aware the club was losing £130,000 a month then that's financial suicide.

Yes £130,000 a month loss is possible but the incompetence (being kind or at best) involved to get to that level is utterly staggering. The club was in the Football League and completely debt free just over two years ago remember. In the last 12 months we have sold around ten players for fees, where has this money gone? Nothing generated appears to stay in the club.

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 37406

Stevo1 wrote:

billygoatblue wrote:

No way are Sage losing 130k a month, IOR were subsidising us with about a million a year in our hay day, you seriously suggesting sage are paying more for this squad than that which got to Cardiff..

You are forgetting my friend that the 'costs' are only half of the issue. The revenue is dramatically lower now than in the football league. I would say a 130k a month loss is very possible.

You cut your costs to match your income. The clever part is being able to manage your budget, other teams seem to manage it.

kevin pooles gloves · **Joined:** Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:28 pm **Posts:** 9506

Agree Snowy.
Theres loads of teams with a lot smaller fan base than us who manage thier budgets ok and have decent teams as well.
Accrington Stanley who are they!

born toulouse · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:59 am

It was interesting listening to Hignett on the radio. He didn't seem to have a problem with operating under financial constraints and selling players once you've developed them. What he found hard was finding out that the long term strategy suddenly disappeared and he was managing players who weren't paid and selling anybody he could get money for.

Same must be true for Harrison. Recruited by new, apparently solvent and well-meaning, owners who had a clear medium term plan based on getting back into the league quickly. They must have known the costs and likely income at that stage so he was probably told what his player budget would be. Then he finds out within months that the plan was really a gamble to get back into the league in one shot and that FA Cup and Trophy revenues would be needed a swell as player sales. Quickly followed by the news that once the chance of promotion had gone the owners would walk out and cut their losses however they could.

He does appear to be pretty poor but not many managers would come out of that financial cesspit smelling of roses.

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:11 pm

In fact IOR and the whole club have never recovered from the Oldham blow.

born toulouse · **Posted:** Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:12 pm

Easy to say that with the benefit of hindsight. Ken spotted the pivotal moment in our history virtually as it happened.

charco · **Joined:** Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:24 am **Posts:** 885

Not hard to when he caused it!

aptid · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:49 pm **Posts:** 1506

"Oldham blow", is that some for form of Lancashire xtra strength Caribbean old holborn?

aptid · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:49 pm **Posts:** 1506

"Oldham blow", is that some for form of Lancashire xtra strength Caribbean old holborn?

horden · **Posted:** Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:36 am

Nearly every manager in our history, has had to do the job with one hand tied behind there back. Every manager coming here surely must know the score , and the limitations and restrictions they will have to work under. If they didn't then that is a worry in itself. The job must be one of the worst in football, that is why there isnt a rush of credible applicants when it is advertised. Anyone applying for the job when Harrison eventually gets the push, should be sent straightaway for a mental health assessment.

Hartlepool Mail - Part V - The Snag

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