Get yersel joined now Colonel. Its the best way to defend Corbyn , by increasing the membership.

I resigned from the party when watson et al used the membership money to block members from voting. I voted for JC then resigned. I swallowed my pride and voted Labour last week for an anti corbyn MP. Conservative won in my constituency... part of me is angry. Another part is relieved we don't have another back stabbing twat in office.

Breaking news;

Corbyn lost. He lost to the same level as Brown lost. Are you all on drugs, convincing yourselves that this is some kind of victory? May left the goal open and they missed by 50 seats.

I see May's now saying the big lads in the EU made her do it. She got trounced she'll be lucky to be there for the party conference. . I thought telling lies to her Maj. was a naughty offence..

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

So let's get this straight we're on drugs over the result of an election called by May partly because of the so called disarray the Labour Party were in because she thought she was going to win by a landslide. She didn't, she didn't even end up with a majority and has made her own position all but untenable. It was a disaster for the Tories and especially for Teressa May. They have less MP's in commons than before this snap election called by her off the back of Brexit disaster also called by a Tory Prime a Minister. It's aim was to strengthen her mandate and credibility in Brussels it has spectacularly backfired.

Corbyn was seen as a joke even (or especially by) by high profile figures in his own party yet 13,0000,000 million people turned out and voted for him including the minor miracle of getting young people talking about politics and actually venturing out to the polling station. He completely out performed May and his popularity has been something that would have been seen as impossible even a couple of months ago it still seems to be gathering momentum. He's the only true winner on a personal level from Thursday. Labour won seats they haven't since the 1997 landslide. Sadly the British people aren't though and we're left to pick up the pieces from another mess created by a Tory Prime Minister.

With those levels of denial you should get job at The Sun or The Daily Mail.

Being a pedant here, you can't lose what you never had. Only may has lost. The conservatives won the election but at what cost.

Labour lost the election but at what gain.

Corbyn ignited the youth and young adults. He engaged with those that don't think everything revolves around the stock exchange and greedy fooking bankers.

So what now?

Well the young generation can see what was on offer.

They will also see what they get from the tories.

They are awake now.

The want their tuition fees paid.

The want a fairer society.

They want an NHS.

They want an end to austerity.

They will get none of that from the tories.

And they won't be happy.

That stupid Brexit vote did for the young people.

They won't allow bigoted old bastards to do it again.

Talking about Brexit.

Michael hesletine now believes it won't happen and a deal will be done to tighten immigration rules.

Just for once I hope he is right.

Farage will be livid.

Correct me if I'm wrong colonel by all means but I was under the impression that the EU (Juncker or whoever runs the place), recognised the democratic views of yhe British people and as far as they are concerned Brexit means Brexit.

Didn't they also confirm it will happen 2 years from triggering article 50 which has been triggered?

I think Heseltine may be wrong here.

As I said, I may be wrong.

I am really trying to stop getting fucking angry about anything to do with Brexit but am finding it really impossible. I got into an argument with some prick on Twitter yesterday talking about the decisive democratic mandate for Brexit, I pointed out that only 37% of electorate voted for it, hardly a decisive mandate.

He pissed all over my argument until I gave up and realized maybe the uk is going to get what it deserves. Anyone with a brain please read the piece in The Times by Robert Harris today, the EU isn't perfect by any means but we had a pretty good deal to trade with special privileges with the largest market in the world. We decided we didn't want that, well 37% of people did and we all know Brexit means Brexit and we need to keep the terrorists out (all those bloody German, French, Italian and Spanis suicide bombers that keep terrorising our streets).

Our country and democracy are in a bloody mess because of Brexit and the future is uncertain, for what, to take back control we never lost but it felt like we had because he daily mail kept telling us.

Ok breathe and relax, nurse I need my pills now!!!

Whats your solution to this then Dalton?

In Australia not voting is an offence with people fined for failing to vote - turnout is around 99%.

People in the UK will scream and shout about their right to a choice not to vote.

In terms of Brexit - yup 37% voted leave which isn't a mandate - but 52% of those who could be arsed to vote, voted to leave. That's democracy.

To put it another way - 46 million people in the UK qualify to vote - only around 31 million did vote last week, which means 15 million can't be arsed.

Does that mean we don't put a government in place as the biggest number of votes weren't cast?

I know its shit, I know there are holes but until people get out and use their vote we have to deal with what we get.

on a side note, my mum won't vote because her neighbour works on the polling station and she doesn't like her, Bonkers or what?

That's a good question in fact, for a GE I think it's a different question to a referendum. Personally, and looking at other countries like Switzerland who have regular referendum as part of their constitution (which drives many of their population mad), they set a clear mandate as to what constitutes a majority.

We set up a binary choice (leave or Remain) without even setting a clear guideline as to what a decisive decision would be. I would have made it a forced vote and given a third option of 'cannot decide'. I also want to pick up up a bit on the assumption voiced by many that everyone who didn't vote in the referendum 'couldn't be arsed'. There were people like my mum who didn't vote because she couldn't be convinced by either side of the argument and it was too complex, that is a valid reason not to vote in a referendum right?

Neither side of the argument got over 50% of electorate to go out and vote for it on a binary choice, it was an appalling piece of governance by Cameron's Tories to allow a decision that Big to be made on that basis.

On GE's I'm coming round to the idea that proportional representation would of some sort and balanced consensus politics might be he way forward to avoid this constant polarization of views. It doesn't do Germany or Scandinavia any harm to say he least

Aye fair point on the referendum non voters.

Agree again with the proportional representation aspect. It amazes me that a few years back the green party had similar votes to the lib dems I think - yet only had 1 mp.

And this time there are 790000 votes between the 2 main parties and 56 seats.

Hopefully something will change.

One positive thing I suppose, I had sort of given up engaging on politics until Brexit which was a WTF moment. I think we are going to see a big wash through though for many years now but at least it seems to have woken people up a bit more in the last GE. Sadly with Brexit I don't see a happy outcome unless we take a Norway style EEA agreement which means we might have well stayed in (but that's my opinion only not trying to force it on others)

On PR I think more people would vote for Greens and Lib Dems if they thought the vote would count/mean something. Sadly people gravitate to Tories or Labour as they are the only ones who can actually win rather than voting for the one you most believe in

May tried to have a single issue election over Brexit and failed; turns out people were much more interested in ending austerity. Add to that a laughably inept campaign that no amount of spin could salvage (breaking on last night's TV news: the right-wing tabloids don't have as much influence as they did in the 80s and 90s. No shit Sherlock).

But jumping from there to 'that's the end of Brexit then' as so many commentators are doing doesn't stack up. The parties opposed to Brexit in England, Scotland and Wales (Libs, Greens, Scots and Welsh Nats) won barely 50 seats out of over 600 on offer.

John McDonnell said yesterday that Labour wouldn't support staying in the EU single market. He and Corbyn aren't Remainers themselves and recognise that the million+ voters who switched back from UKIP to Labour did it because they couldn't stomach voting for a Tory government, not because they'd suddenly had a change of heart over the referendum.

May is a lame duck PM, she doesn't have a mandate to govern and Article 50 negotiations led by her are going to be a car crash. Then again, nobody has a mandate to keep Britain in the EU.

Yes they do. If it's in our economic interest.

Why go through with something if it's proven that it will be nothing but catastrophic.

The most staggering thing of all this weekend is may giving Gove a job.

That says more than most things.

It's alarming.

Gove is like one of the football managers that keeps getting a top job despitell never doing a good job.

Meanwhile in France, for better or for worse, a bloke who had never stood for election before May this year is now their president, and his new movement is set to win a landslide majority after yesterday's first round of parliamentary elections. His only policy that could in any way be called original is to get rid of all the old farts in government.
How the other half live, eh?

Despite been Brexit neutral, I have always thought Corbyn's Labour would be the best party to tackle immigration and cut down on the numbers entering the UK. To not do this would go against their policy of training or re-training young British workers to do meaningful , well paid employment. So it is obvious to me , to make that policy a success,, they would therefore have to limit the amount of cheap unskilled labour entering the country. To not get to grips with immigration would directly conflict with Labour policy of sorting out the problem of lack of skills, low pay and low value jobs that the youth of our country currently face.

If you're talking about allowing in cheap labour from the EU, that ought to correct itself automatically as the poorer EU states get up to speed. I say "ought to", but I have no idea how the EU plans to make sure it does.
Alongside that, if the minimum wage is 10 quid and only proper contracts are allowed, it's no longer cheap labour. If companies still wanted to recruit Kazakhs or whoever, they would need a compelling reason to do so.

£10 per hour IS cheap Labour.

There is no other way of describing it.

Anything under that is slave labour.

And I would love to know how "we" are going to get rid of foreign labour doing the jobs in hotels etc. When clearly the equivalent british people wouldnt do that work.

I think you'll find slaves don't get paid at all.
Someone working 168 hours a month (typical shift work) picks up 1680 quid. That's hardly what I'd call exploitation. Unless you're in London maybe.
Or do people get more than that on benefits now?

Most people paid by the hour get nowhere near 168 hours a month.

Those that do will be salary, with holiday entitlement and a pension.

£10 per hour these days is frankly, fook all.

And most people work a 37 hour week now anyway.

Just to clarify, as I am interested generally, as someone else posted something similar, what jobs are NOT worth £10 per hour?

Just to clarify, Hessletine claimed that a deal could/would be done with Germany and France, to give the simpletons amonst our electorate a feeling that brexit has happended, but in reality, it would amount to tightening of borders, and new rules around imigration, that would suit the other members just as much.

This deal would be put to the other members for them to vote on it.

Whilst on the subject of Brexir means brexit:

Seriously, what the fook does it actually mean? Does anyone know, definitively?

Many experts now believe it doesnt mean anything. And therein lies the problem, with the referendum.

Just what were we all voting for?

ANd where do people get this idea from the process cant be stopped?

Its only a process, its not like someone gets shot in the head.

If it proves to be a bad idea, for us, and the other members, then its not rocket science to just stop the damned process.

People are being dense beyond dense, if they think its an unstoppable train. Its just a human decision, and a set of rules and a process.

It CAN be stopped at any time. By human beings being fooking sensible.

"Brexit is Brexit" means, umm, that Brexit is, uh, pretty much the same thing as, erm ... Brexit!
You wouldn't argue that rules isn't rules or enough isn't enough now, would you?

Not sure we ever did have a bargaining position.

Article 50:
"The Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union."

Article 218, clause 3:
The Commission, or the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy where the agreement envisaged relates exclusively or principally to the common foreign and security policy, shall submit recommendations to the Council, which shall adopt a decision authorising the opening of negotiations and, depending on the subject of the agreement envisaged, nominating the Union negotiator or the head of the Union's negotiating team.

"Framework of its future relationship" could mean anything. It might mean Brexit is Brexit but is most likely to mean Uncertainty is Uncertainty. They are bothered about security and foreign policy but aren't arsed at all about trading relations.

Apparantly the queens speech has been delayed.

Now I wonder why that is?

But reading the BBC report, this caught my eye, and does explain wy politcs here is fooking stupid beyond belief.

the speech has to be written on goat's skin parchment paper, which takes a few days to dry

Jesus wept.

Well, let's face it, choosing a government for 5 years is a complex decision and parties indulge in a bidding war in elections too, but it's the basis of our democracy.The idea that a single issue campaign that went on for months was 'too complex' for Joe and Jane Public to get their heads around is pure elitism.

Both the Tory and Labour parties had a commitment to leaving the EU in their election manifestos. Ditching a manifesto commitment a few days after an election never plays well with the voters - just ask Nick Clegg. Labour won't make that mistake, today, tomorrow or any time in the run up to the next election.

But leaving the EU is way more complicated than either side of the referendum even remotely tried to explain.

Like someone said on the radio yesterday, Brexit for most people, was about closing borders and controlling immigraton(For some it was quite clearly "send the buggers back").

It was never about the complex issues that have become obvious.

Nor did anyone explain the actual threat to jobs, the economy, foreign workers, workers rights in the UK, or anything else way more important.

Until someone explains what Brexit really means, I will continue to say its barking mad.

Nurse registrations down 96% since the brexit vote. That wasn't written on the side of the 350 million quid bus.

Cut benefits Comrade, or make those on benefits work for nothing

Here we go again. It's part of the Remainer narrative to focus on EU staff working in the NHS. Actually, bigger numbers come from countries who can even less well afford to lose trained medical staff, notably India and the Philippines:

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ ... y/CBP-7783

I'd like to live in a country that put proper resources into training its own NHS staff and got rid of obscenities like charging nurses for the privilege of training to look after us when we're ill. I'd prefer it if we weren't robbing countries like Romania and Poland of their trained nurses, not to mention the Philippines, Nigeria and Zimbabwe!

Fair comment ! Whenever people move away from their homeland, its generallyy out of necessity rather than choice. I have never understood why we cant just pay UK wannabee teachers and nurses 30k a year whilst they train, I'm sure many would be willing to pay more tax to fund this . 30k its frickin peanuts, yet we are forever banging on about a shortage of teachers and nurses. I have a friend who would make a good teacher, has all the quals ( taken at evening classes after work ) but cant afford to go to uni, (because they are aged 50 and have a mortgage etc, )and take a PGCE.

So would I. But we won't be getting 350 mil a week to do it with. We won't even be getting 350 thou from May's lot.

Then give them the appetite. Have a prize draw or something. 645 cars at 10 grand each is a scratch on the surface compared with the cost of an election.
It's about 1/2 hour at the 350 million a week we're going to save from being out of Europe.
Walking to the polls and writing X is not exactly the most strenuous activity there is, unless you live on Rockall or somewhere.

Except of course it's not in the vested interest of certain parties to have a high turnout.

It must take the news programmes ages to find the people they do, that are demanding brexit immediately.

Like Chip says, most people have far more important issues to worry about.

What I am finding astonishing is the amount of people they find saying things like they were disgusted that brexit wasnt higher on the campaign agenda. And some blaming Corbyn for it. F ucking nutters.

Well said. We have good people in THIS country just busting to be given a break in life, who would make good nurses etc.... but the quick fix is to bring in from abroad.

Same with other industries. Employers are complaining that graduates don't have the skills they are looking for. Well instead of sending people on meaningless degrees, incentives employers to produce their own trained and qualified employees. Everyone's a winner.

Where to start with this.

People dont get sent on degrees.

People take degrees in subjects that interest them.

Nursing is a Vocation usually. People go into that because they acre and want to care for people. The pay is shit, the hours are shit, and prospects of promotion is not that great. And its for life.

People who go to work in factories, usually end of staying there for life. Not a very exciting lifetime ambition.

Most industries are boring. The jobs are boring, or hard, and kids arent enthused to do that sort of work. Again the pay is not tht great, unless you want to spend most of your time on an oil rig or in the middle east.

How DO you incentivise employers to produce their own trained and qualified staff?

Give them EVEN more cash back, by reducing corporation tax even further? I bet that money would trousered anyway.

Oh and to be a nurse, you need to be relatively intelligent, and be able to learn, and act quickly on your feet.

Oh and there is better training abroad too.

Oh, and people training to be nurses here now, are lumbered with student debt.

Don't vote Tory then, as you say they've already put a heck of a lot of Brits off from Nursing Training by removing the Bursary, rumours that they want them to pay Tuition Fees as well, and believe me with Nursing (particularly for those who are on Bands 4 and 5, ie anything below Sister in old rank) not exactly being lucrative in the NHS, that's not doing anything for recruitment.... My other half is a School Nurse, been stranded at the top of Band 5 for years so she hasn't had an increment in years, and as it's a Monday to Friday job with no unsociable hours payments etc. we're actually at the point that when the Living Wage comes in, she'll almost be as well off taking a job at Aldi on the Checkouts when you consider she has to travel 50 miles a day at the moment...

Nobody ever got a say in what sort of Brexit they were voting for, and even now nobody really knows what it means. One irony of the GE is that what May really wanted was a big enough majority to overcome the extremists on both sides of her party in terms of Brexit - instead, she's going to have to go cap in hand to the other parties and hope that they'll support the terms she comes up with, and that the right wing of her own party won't rebel against her on other issues that would see her lose a confidence vote.... In the meantime Farage and his cronies still peddle the idea that the EU will just roll over and have their belly tickled, and will give us everything we want (tariff-free access to the single market, soft border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, no implications for the City of London) without any money paid in a divorce settlement or any other contributions or concessions from the UK - which is and always has been a complete fantasy.

Employers never willingly put their hands in their pockets , they have to be told to do so. That's part of the problem, they get too many incentives already.

All the things Pooly Imp talks about, would be addressed under a Socialist government, he so despises

This I agree with 100% mr Unreliable.

Has anyone else ever wondered why this wonderful country of ours, isn't crawling with Dutch, German or Scandinavian Doctors and Nurses? Answer = Cos they are better off where they are , that's why. Only those from oppressed countries such as Poland , Romania, Philippines , Thailand come here as cheap labour, though to them its obviously a step up.

Its a shame in this country that we don't look to the German/ Scandinavian model of doing things, rather than the American one, that is what has always held us back as a nation. That and our upper class , who have been allowed to keep our money for far too long.

American culture is fooking horrible. Its all about money, and working your way up the corporate ladder.

Hate it.

Greed is good, and the tories follow that mantra to the letter of the law.

I don't have any expectations from May's lot either and voted for a change of government last Thursday. I hope her lame duck government collapses in the next few months.

The quicker the better, however sick of voting some people are feeling. The Remain lobby is very good at pushing its agenda irrespective of what people actually vote for.
People need to wake up to the fact that this is going to cause a lot of trouble for Labour as well as the Tories.

Corbyn and McDonnell both said on Sunday that staying in the single market wasn't an option. Today Starmer is saying it might be, and the Blairite MPs who have spent the last 2 years slagging off Corbyn are now saying "well done Jeremy, please have us back in the Shadow Cabinet so we can get on with watering down your manifesto.'

not sure why halting brexit will cause trouble for anyone.

Or what agenda remainers are following.

This is so simple its ridiculous.

But I will repeat it anyway:

If over the next few months its proven, beyond doubt, that leaving the EU is bad for Britain, Jobs, and economy, its absolute common sense to halt this obsession with brexit, and repair any damage done.

Any politician that cared about the UK nad the bigger picture would do it.

If its proven, much harder to do, that leaving is the right thing to do, then get on with it.

But this current mental obsession some people have to leave the EU is beyond crazy, especially since not one of them has any idea of the damage it might cause.

For fooks sake, if you were in a car at the top of a cliff and needed to get to the bottom, you wouldnt just drive your car over the edge, just because someone said the air bag would save you.

It doesn't matter....in 100 years our great and great great grandkids will be pissing themselves laughing at us!!!!
'Superpowers'* then will be the Scandinavian countries and helping this shit tip to survive....and a big well done in my opinion!!!!

*as in helping The World....Not bombing the shit out of it!!!!

For those that are interested , some interesting stats.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/ho ... -election/

Nowt to do with Socialism. Just common sense.

These Scandanavian Nirvana countries that people keep mentioning wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for NATO and the fact that they had friends with Nukes. Its very nice for them to have small defence budgets so they can spend the money on something else but it's to the cost of those countries that do get their hands on their pockets.

I agree poolie Imp. I too am sick of being invaded by Russians. Why do they always pick on us?