Does anyone know if this group still perform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIdcDL64 ... ata_player

Kevin,

Ignore Chip. He's feeling his age.
Steve Ignorant is still gigging , but mainly in & around London. Sometimes with ex- members of Crass, sometimes not. He's calling it the Last Supper Gigs so he might finally be thinking about retiring.
Seems to be doing more speaking than gigging these days but he's still active.

Suggest check his website or whatever medium he's using these days.
He was a decent graffiti artist well before Banksy.

Is that haircut of yours the modern look then Chip?

Most of my favourite music is from 30, 40 and also almost 50 years ago, not to mention some from a couple of centuries ago. But I am aware of more recent 'tunes' from my 3 lads. My only old t-shirts are my Great North Run ones, and others from assorted attempts at athleticism.

No excuse for the Heat magazine reading though.

Music is just too objective to be a matter of debate, the way I think. You like what you like and the fact that you like it is not enough of a reason to to say anyone else's opinion is not important.

When you DJ, which incidentally you don't do as a musician, you impose your own taste on the people in front of you.

You can appreciate other people's taste and learn from them and that's the best thing about it. Probably the biggest talking point in the world today.

Thanks for the information, just found a load of records in the loft when cleaning out. Takes me back to my youth with CRASS, Uk Subs Angelic Upstarts Dead Kennedy etc

Uncanny, these are the exact words my Nana used to describe to sex pistols back in the day.

We actually did the bars in Finsbury Park for the Pistosl 'Filthy Lucre' tour in 1999 (??) and the strangest thing was watching Johnny Rotten singing in John Lydon's voice, and realising that they'd run out of songs after 40 minutes.

Crass weren't very good were they? Name me a Crass song off the top of your head? Right, good. Now name me 20 Sex Pistols songs?? Easy wasn't it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQ1CvwF ... re=related

The link might explain what all the fuss was about.
Crass were one of THE punk bands at the time.
Seems Chip doesn't get it at all.

"At The Time" ???!!! They were nearly 2 years too late!

Here is another rubbish band from the late 80's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creaming_Jesus

For a band who were opposed to consumerism Crass did a fantastic job building their brand. Posters, T shirts, slogans and packaging that let you buy rebel status and punk credibility. If the records had actually been any good at all they would have been huge.

By contrast The Ruts made some great records but didn't look the part. They also spent loads of time and energy on building Rock Against Racism alongside Misty In Roots rather than dreaming of new ways to wind people up.

Brilliant; a discussion/argument about Crass and related music - that's what makes this forum the place it is. For what it's worth, Chip, Elvis and Tolouse are all dead right (in my opinon).
And the stencils were better than the music

I have long despised rich kid musicians who play the working class hero.

I've just heard the latest Plan B song on the radio which is full of anger from the street, so he would have you believe. I don't know his background but I bet he doesn't live anywhere grim these days with all the money he's earned, so it all sounds a bit contrived to me.

Same with the millionaire US rappers who 'keep it real' despite living in mansions.

The biggest irk for me currently (who I would never tire of stamping on whilst wearing running spikes) is Professor Green.

"some say no to drugs and make a stand. But after the show they go looking for the dope man!"

Just been on Wikipedia and said this about Plan B;

"Ben Drew was born and brought up in hackney, East London. His mother worked for a local authority and his father, Paul Ballance, played in the 1970s punk band The Warm Jets"

Ben was 5 months old when his father walked out, disappearing when he was 6 years old.[3] Growing up, Plan B felt outcast from the rest of the school pupils.[4]

"We weren't working class but we weren't middle class, we were in the void in-between. I've always felt like a social outcast."

Ray Davies summed this up bright and early with his "Prince Of The Punks" which sadly flopped in 1977. Specifically about Tom Robinson, but open to interpretation about some of the other "struggling" punk musicians, as per usual The Kinks frontman was on the nose.

Best single by Zounds FACT!

BONUS FACT: I knew the brother of one of Zounds and he used to shit on his room floor to prove what an anarchist he was. I could never see the link between taking a dump on the floor and opposing all government.

As you know, I'm a massive collector/fan of this era of music. It's from when I, (and AllezTFC) had our first disposable income (Pocket Money/money from doing jobs like the scorebook at Seaton Carew cc!) and we would buy at least 2 or 3 45's a week from about 1975 until the early 80's. We've certainly got all The Clash/Jam/Buzzcocks/SLF/Magazine/Banshees/Cure/Wire/Fall/XTC/Costello stuff from those times. We also bought a LOT of stuff that I can't particularly listen to now especially the more "Power Pop/New Wave" stuff which hasn't worn well...I mean bands like The Boomtown Rats/Generation X/Skids/Rezillos etc. (Although I DID hear "Ready Steady Go" by Generation X last week and felt a pleasant glow!)
Post-punk labels like Factory/Some Bizarre/Fast made up the soundtrack to my late teens and I still play Julian Cope/B-fillum/New Order/Echo to this day.


Great times to be a music lover...

Not forgetting the likes of SLF, UK subs, exploited, theatre of hate, killing joke, dead kennedy's, angelic upstarts.
I'd put Crass up there with all of them to be honest.

All were relevant at the time and sold records.
John the Con made a fortune off 'em.

Nah..4th division to a man.

I think its interesting when bands/musicians etc slag each other off..and it will always happen!
And a little bit of rivalry isn't a bad thing either.


As far as making it goes, I wish I'd not made it as much as Chip did!! I had one play on Peel and came in my pants!












Also, I cant name one Crass song, and I can't name more than 3 or 4 sex pistols songs...maybe 3 or 4 clash un's too.... I can, however, name 100's of folk songs [trad of course] because my musical taste is considerably more superior to anyone elses....

what about Steeleye Span?

Surely everyone has heard Nagasaki Nightmare

See in my house as a kid it was ALL Dylan,Cash, Stones , Beatles, Hendrix and ABBA!
some John Denver and Elvis too.... my first single was adam and the ants and first album the police...

to this day I hardly know any punk stuff really other than the classics.

The dropping of "Fat Man" (no not our FatMan) on the Japanese City is indeed memorable, but hardly relevant to this thread!!

see, this kinda what puts me off punk...dunno if Yossarian is reading this thread, but his uncle??bro in law?? some relative anyways, is/was a massive punk fan and NEVER moved on...again, fair enough...
but when he listens to punk he repeats every word in a monotone head banging like when he was 15.
Its toe curlingly embarrassing to witness.

And, sad for me, it puts me off.

The best punk bands were ironically the art school lot. Television, Wire and Magazine were the real groundbreakers in that movement.

Ah, Television, first live band I ever saw, well second strictly speaking, they were supported by the wonderful Only Ones who reformed a couple of years ago after 28 years. saw them in Newcastle just after they reformed and were as good as ever, time has definately not been kind to Peter Perrett though (could possibly have something to do with years of heroin abuse). One of my sad claims to fame is having a pee next to drummer Mike Kellie at the Coatham Bowl in Redcar, not while he was drumming I hasten to add, it was in the bogs.

Chip. Thought you used to be in the music Bizz. I distinctly recall White Riot coming out in about March '77 with the 1st Crass release coming in '78.
No doubt you'll recall it was "the feeding of the 5000".

Punk as you know started in '76 so the Clash were a bit late too & were never about some of the things Crass & a few other bands like the Poison Girls stood for .
Apart from a handful of Rock against Racism gigs don't remember the Clash doing much politically.
Crass did loads including a number of benefit gigs for Shelter, the Miners, Women's refuges & so on & so on. As Ignorant has always said Dial House & the Crass movement was always about more than the music.
Clash had (some of )the best tunes. Crass had the best politics.

Rimbaud is from a wealthy background-so what. As you well know if you're a Clash fan Strummer's Dad was a foreign Diplomat & Strummer went to a public school & then to Art School.

Steve Ignorant & most of the orginal Crass line up are as working class as most of British West Hartlepool.

For the record the orginal Crass split in the summer of '84 & then re-formed on & off a few times.
They did a couple of gigs as recently as last year but it seems to be Steve Ignorant who is now left to do any remaining gigs. For the record Ignorant has never been stopped from using the Crass name.

I need to correct you on a very basic error in your post Chip. There is only one m in Emerson in ELP.

I thank you!

I seen a pic of Keith Emerson recently and he only looks about 40!! How can I look older than him when he's about 70 year old?

i thought Gang of Four were pretty seminal too, and Keith Levine was a great guitarist from Pil.

Saw him playing boards for The Nice about 2 years ago, still looks the same, still sticking daggers in the keys and still burning the Stars and Stripes!

Saw the Go4 in the early 80's (when "Songs Of The Free" was out) and even though they'd been augmented by female backing singers they were really, really good. Likewise Magazine's 81/82 stuff (especially "Correct Use Of Soap" and it's associated 12" singles) was very clever.

Should have gone to see the Magazine reunion stuff last year but didn't..they were marvellous on Jools Holland.

Television were one of those bands that I was a bit too young to realise how good they were. I was aware of "Prove It" and "Foxhole" getting into the lower end of the charts as 45's (at a time where vitually no "Arty" bands were getting hits..) but didn't hear Marquee Moon properly until about 1981
Great album..play it a lot.

Chip, where do I start with your continued re-writing of punk history.
I'll overlook your distortion over the dates in '76'77 & '78 as it doesn't matter all that much but as the rest of your fantasy
The Pistols fans weren't that individual as I recall at least the London lot weren't -all wearing McClaren/Westwood garb like a uniform.
Yeah, the Clash supported the Pistols on their first proper tour but as you know most of the gigs didn't actually take place due to the constant banning of the gigs. The Damned were kicked off the same tour for not being commercial enough. Very punk.
Sid joined the Pistols about the same time as White Riot came out & then the Pistols shot off to America not long after that.
Seems to me that the Clash couldn't wait to get over there too. Give 'em Enough Rope was made in America.
Mark Perry summed it up in Sniffin' Glue when he criticised the Clash for taking the Yankee Dollar & signing for CBS. Same goes for the Pistols.

Yeah Ignorant was inspired by the original Pistols as were the Buzzcocks. The Damned & a number of other bands were already around.
The fact that the Clash were jumping across the Pond before the second album was made turned a load of people off.
London Calling is a great album but Punk inspired - well no.
The Clash were there in the Summer of '76 - no doubt. Better songs & musicianship than Crass & most of the other bands of the day - no doubt, but political -yeah right.

Crass for all their faults made their own records , funded recording space for other bands, printed other band's records & fully adopted the DIY ethic of punk.

You keep slagging off Rimbaud but don't state your sources. Why does Ignorant still laud him!?
For what it's worth the Wiki version reads like this

"Other members of Crass were not involved in these concerts. "I acknowledge and respect Steve's right to do this", Penny Rimbaud said, "but I do regard it as a betrayal of the Crass ethos. Ignorant had a different view: "I don't have to justify what I do. Plus, most of the lyrics are still relevant today".

Not a refusal then Chip -more a disagreement amongst the co-founders of Crass, if anything.

As for Rimbaud slagging off Strummer-I've never heard that & doubt you can evidence it.
If you can, go ahead.

As for the statement Crass went against the sentiments of Punk- FFS - you really DON'T get it do you.

Its always struck me that the Clash were ravenous with Ambition from the start and every single move they made was completely thought out beforehand. Its well known Strummer studied Dr Feelgood gigs, and live they borrowed heavily from the energy they could stir up. They were a great band dont get me wrong, but the irony probably is that all those bands who had that Diy, three chord ethic were quite usually shite. The really great punk and new wave bands all had fantastic guitarists usually. (Levine Pil, Thunders Ny Dolls, Mcgeogh Magazine) and all wanted to be as big as the Rolling Stones. Albums like 'Marquee Moon', 'Pink Flag' and 'Real Life' still sound amazing today. Thats the real legacy of punk.

Around 1980 I went to see a local punk Band at Dunhelm College Durham called Treatment Room. Their lead singer Chris Simpson was very loud and aggressive, a couple of songs in he launched himself into the front thong of pogoing lads, unfortunately he was lamped and taken away to hospital....end of gig.

Isn't the problem here that punk's key message was to do what you want and that spawned all sorts of things? It means you can pick and choose what 'true punk' was and then argue on that basis. I don't think any of the first wave of UK punk bands were particularly in favour of independent labels, they wanted to be fresher, sharper and more exciting than the old bands but they also wanted to be bigger. It was largely about being young, the shock of the new and getting up and doing it but all of the bands undoubtedly wanted to be big- Pistols, Clash, Banshees and Buzzcocks all signed as big as they could as did The Damned but only Stiff wanted them so they signed for a big pub rock label.

Mark Perry took the DIY ethic that spawned the fanzine movement which eventually crossed over into football. Of course he criticised The Clash, going to America and working with the Blue Oyster Cult's producer didn't fit with what he believed at all. Most people who slagged The Clash off were just cross that they didn't make the first album over again, for them punk was about speed and aggression not musical growth and change. Give 'Em Enough Rope wasn't a great record but London Calling was and it wouldn't have happened if The Clash had been intent on repeating the same trick again and again in the guise of being loyal to the punk spirit.

A lot of the post-punk bands picked up on the idea of doing what you like musically. I loved the Gang of Four and they remain one of the best bands I've ever seen live. Good front man combined with a guitarist that was massively influenced by Wilko Johnson and a rhythm section that were doing their best to play funk. PiL mixing up reggae and krautrock were another good example.

The you had Oi! or streetpunk or whatever you want to call it. The Upstarts, Cockney Rejects, Sham 69, Four Skins etc. They decided that the ethos of punk was to be loyal to the kids on the street and to be fast, loud and aggressive.

Crass decided that the punk ideal was to be so independent that you're almost outside the system, pretty similar to the hippy ideal of dropping out really. It allows you to be pure, loyal and above criticism because you don't engage with anyone outside your own ranks.

You can choose from any of that lot or just mix and match when you want to decide what punk was but it means that arguing about who was really genuinely punk pretty pointless. Better off arguing about who was good.

For me most of the early punk bands stand up pretty well although the Pistols sound very heavy metal and the first Clash album captures that wired energy best. The post-punk bands are great for sonic adventure, PiL, Gang of Four, and I'd include Wire and The Mekons even though they started earlier, challenged you a bit and are still massively influential. The Undertones were excellent but don't fit in anywhere.

The Oi lot haven't aged very well for me. I liked some of it at the time but it got very dull very fast.

Crass records had no merit at the time and have none now. They were political in so far as they shouted about politics but they didn't influence anybody outside their own tiny cult. The Clash had a massive impact on the growth of RAR, introduced tens of thousands of young people to radical politics, championed reggae and were among the first big bands to embrace hip hop. Their politics weren't pure or perfect but they looked outwards and had an impact on the wider world not just their mates.

Theres a fantastic book on the post punk movement called 'Rip it up and start again' by Simon Reynolds. Its a fantastic read.

Agree with you there Mr Mullet, one of the best music books I've read. Retromania is a good read as well, clever without disappearing up its own arse.

I watched that earlier in this thread, it didn't inspire me to watch the other 7 parts.

I've been meaning to post this for ages; it's for you Chip, or anyone else who 'was there'!

Just listened to 'More Trouble' and it is indeed a great track!!!!

Bloody hell....I've got a few Crass albums....haven't listened to them for a looooong time.

Yes yes yes, this is all very tedious. The only band I have ever heard of in this thread is the sex pistols and, in my opinion, they were utter shite. I therefore conclude that I have missed nothing and a lot of other people have wasted a lot of their time and money.
Nobody has mentioned Cliff Richard..............surprising, coz he was the ultimate master of producing shite,