....as soon as our main playmakers go off or are injured we collapse like a pack of cards. Our fringe players just aint' anywhere near good enough, okay we know that, but it will cost us dear as the games come thick and fast. We should have got some thing today, 65 mins gone, up 1-0, and we've took a paggering!

Its probably the only concern i have right now with our team but it seems to happen quite a lot.

We have kept a LOT of very impressive clean sheets. Therefore I don't see how we are conceding a disproportionately high number of goals in the other games. If the defence can keep that may clean sheets you would expect there to be very few drubbings and lots of games where we just conceded the odd goal. Its not happening though.

I don't think it can be fitness levels as they have shown on many occasions this season that they can go without conceding over the 90 mins.

look at the goals we have conceded though...

5 v sheff wed
4 v carlisle
4 v sheff wed
4 v watford
3 v exeter
3 v colchester
3 v notts co
3 v wigan


2 v swindon
2 v bristol rovers
2 v yeovil
2 v oldham

1 v mk dons
1 v walsall
1 v orient
1 v dagenham
1 v brighton


0 v rochdale
0 v sheff utd
0 v yeovil
0 v northampton
0 v brentford
0 v plymouth
0 v bradford
0 v peterbro
0 v vauxhall motors
0 v vauxhall motors
0 v tranmere
0 v bournemouth
0 v huddersfield

defensively we seem to go to pot as soon as we concede a goal. Is it concentration levels or a confidence issue??

(ps before everyone jumps on me for posting something a bit negative Im not calling anyone a bounder, im not saying we are going to be relegated, im merely pointing out a slight concern that im sure im not alone in having.)

The season is FAR better than i could have predicted but I do think mick needs to try and put a finger on why our players capitulate as often as they do.

Yes everyone knows that the fringe players aren't good enough put to suggest we capitulate when our playmakers are taken off/injured is ludicrous

Today we we're 1 up and only one team looking like scoring and that was us and then humphreys was taken off for brown....is this what you mean by our playmakers and capitulating?

The game today was not where close to a 4-1 game....the great finish for their first and a quick second put our heads down n then they brought graham on who is a class above....watford could have easily been 2 down seconds before they scored their first and it would of been game over

Great performance by the lads today and the scoreline was not deserved

You can't take today a an example 2-1 down needing to score to take the game to a replay you're not exactly going to tighten the defence.. ditto 3-1 you've got no choice but to go for it.. Correct me if I'm wrong but the time to tighten the defence is when you're winning 1-0..

To be honest grave It looks their heads go down a little when they concede....a lot of them games goals have come close together and totally drains the players

Today they scored 3 good goals....their first one and grahams were really really good goals

3rd one was only one which SHOULD have been prevented

it still makes no sense that we typically concede a number of goals once we let one in however you want to dress it up. yes, the time to strengthen the defence is when you are 1-0 up but there is no need for the defence to crumble once they do let one in!!

Sides often sit back a bit once they get infront so when we concede one, we should be up the other end of the pitch. attacking is the best form of defence is it not??

All im saying is that our defence clearly defends well until they concede and then they seem to lose the plot a bit. the goals against proves that point. Hopefully mick can address that issue.

I can't get to matches but from listening to the radio and Poolsworld and reading what people on here say I think the issue might be that we have a defensive set up that works great until we have to chase a game. At 0-0 the holding defenders protect the back four and we sit and play on the break. If we go behind we can't keep doing that for long, the game gets stretched and we suffer the consequences. Even with Collins playing he needs to sit deep and defend.

Given the lack of a quality striker and the legs of Murray, Collins and Humphreys it is a miracle that we don't get a good beating more often and I think Wadsworth deserves massive credit for marshalling limited resources so well. The one thing we never do anymore is capitulate. We do get beaten sometimes but from what I heard we competed very well and lost heavily because of some very good finishing once two goals in a minute put us on the back foot.

Feel free to denounce this as shyte because I wasn't at the match, I'm just working from how things sound.

...No I dont mean by Humphreys going off, you know I mean Murray and Mc Sweeney, the fact that we cant get two consecutive 90 mins out of Brown, we all know that Liddles best position is in midfield not cenre-back, and that once we concede one away from home you always feel we'll concede again quickly.

...and it was a great performance today...which makes the final score all the more galling to take.

That sounds like a decent shout to me. Im not sure how we could chase a game yet still keep it tight unfortunately although if anyone can sort it then im sure mick can

Possibly but we are not just talking about today's game. Todays game was against a championship team. the fact is that over the season we have been defensively strong until we let one in then we seem to fall away badly.

...Maybe's capitulate is too strong a word then, but that's 7 goals conceded in two away games, and no I was'nt there today, but I listened to the full match commentary and was at Notts on Monday. What worries me is we've conceded 7 in two games we have played well in, what's gonna happen in a game when we don't play well......and I hope that never happens too soon.

And yes, your probably right we should'nt be too critical if we did'nt attend.......but should we all just sit waiting for the first car or busload to return back before we make comment?

I'd rather look at the bigger picture, we've been as solid as a rock away this season. On Monday we conceded a goal for the first time in the first half of any away league game, remarkable.

Sometimes you simply come up against side who are better than you. Win a very winnable game next Saturday and we are knocking on the door of the top six, I reckon we'd have taken that in August. I think we'll still all take just staying up.

Losing to Watford and Notts County is no real surprise right now.
It's worth a bet on Notts County to go up. I think they might well win the play offs - getting beat off them was no disgrace when you look at their recent form - and going 2 goals up away from home against the 6th placed team in the premier league and winning shows they're a good team.
Like him or not, Lee Hughes is by far and away the best striker in this division - forget about Morrison at Sheff Wed etc - he will be worth 20 points to them this season on his own.
They also have a very rich owner and they have as much cash as any other team in the league. Ince will be determined to prove people wrong and all the ingredients are there for them to do well

Good support from you guys...

Thought you weren't a bad side really and can see why your in decent form but we just managed to get that equaliser after our goalie made a very good saved which changed the confidence of both sides.

We had a lot of youngsters in the side and it showed first half but as you get with such players they grew in form once we gained control.

4-1 was harsh on you if its any consolation!

Yeah, thanks..... 776 fan's for an away game in London is pretty good at our level......well done the lads who travelled to the game.

For the first hour or so today we were the best team and the only team that looked liked scoring. I was sat there feeling comfortable and smug and expecting us to score another. We almost did that but their keeper pulled off a decent save.............a minute or two later they were level.
The kid who scored the equaliser wandered over to the left unheeded at their corner kick. We had dealt with all their set piece situations without too much trouble but we failed to pick up or read what their ploy was. A quickly taken corner kick was rolled to their player who proceeded, seemingly unchallenged, to get himself into a shooting position........let one fly and bingo they were level.
So we had gone from a whisker away from going two up to being level.
I don't know if this is the case but we went from being comfortable to second best all over the pitch almost in the blinking of an eye.
We stopped getting the proverbial foot in and I though heads dropped a little. I don't know why heads should have dropped because we were the better team, created the better chances and never looked like getting beat 4-1 at the hour mark.
Some wise pundits might say we tired or Watford went up a gear or championship class told but I just think we had a mad five minutes where nothing went right for us and instead of being 2 up we were 2-1 down. After that we chased the game a bit and conceded another two...........shit happens.
If anybody had asked me for odds on Watford getting four after the hour mark I would have given any odds you wanted, thats how comfortable we were. However I wish we had a specialist playing the lone striker role cos I firmly believe if we had such a player we would have won at Notts and Watford and would have conceded nowhere near seven.
It was strange to say the least.
Whilst I came away disappointed I was also proud of our performance and I am a lot happier now than I was when Tubby was in charge and I was coming out of away ground after away ground shaking my head in despair.

"776 fan's for an away game in London is pretty good at our level......well done the lads who travelled to the game"

Teams like Scunny brought less for example and its not like our ground is flashly (bet its probably no better than some in League One if not worse*!) is it which sometimes attracts more in FA Cup trips.

How many do you take usually - I know games range fromCarlisle to Plymouth/Exeter which is a long one even for the hard-core support!

We have a pretty average away following compared to most in the Championship and I doubt more than 200/300 would have come to a replay at yours.

Maybe we'll see next season.

;)

*The closed stand next to you is due to be re-built if we ever get enough money but then that would only happen by selling key players which we don't really want to do and we'd never fill the ground anyway.

.We had about 600 at Notts Co. last week and average about 4-500 for an away game, obviously 2-300 for a longer run. Unfortunately I wish our home support was as fervent as our away support, but if we keep moving in the right direction I'm sure it will come.

Shit draw in the first place, ended up with a shit scoreline, thank **ck it's all over with, little Watford make 6 changes from their previous league game, and still score 4 - when we're bad, we are BAD !!
"We can now concentrate on the League" !!!!!

Spot on, Can't argue with any of that!

What concerned me was how all 4 goals were scored from the right side of our box (although Graham did run across the box). Having said that, I don't think there's any major problems. After a dire first 15 (from both sides, although they seemed to go straight through the middle too easy early on) we deserved our lead at half time. Had Gamble scored from a good chance, we'd have gone on to win. He didn't and the rest is history. Shit happens and that's football. Lots of positives from today and I'm sure most enjoyed the day.

To the Watford fan commenting on their ground; I like it. Decent enough size and not a modern identikit stadium. Plus it's next door to the missus' old School so it was nice to finally visit.

Cheers for that but then we usually get "what a dump" comments from those who play in such grounds as you decscribe or just ones with bigger capacity etc (we are a smallish club compared to most in the Championship size wise)

I don't think 3 sides of our "Vic" is too bad..just that East stand but as I said earlier we wouldn't fill another stand that much and just get stick for having an half empty crowd instead!

The away end is known to be rather cramped and doesn't sell alcohol which no doubt doesn't please away supporters..built about 15 years when we were getting gates under 8k and that was the home end!

I like what watford are doing, they dont seem to have ideas above their station, they got in the premier, they lived the dream, they came back.

They seem to be building a solid foundation around a young manager, and a young team.

The bbc article about them a few months back was pretty impressive, with the specialist school in the area pretty much grooming the future of the club.

Hope it all works out for you.

With the missus being local I've read the Watford Observer for years; they've been a real community club for a long time now with real local roots like pools. The missus is from a village a few miles away and they run a local youth set up there. I've always thought they're more than just a football club. For instance, they've done an exiles season ticket for some time now (you can attend a quarter of the games) which is a great idea.

From what I saw of the goals Kean needs to learn to get down an awful lot quicker for the low shots on goal, 2 of them I thought he should have got to and Austin had a mare at right back.

It's also frustrating that apparently they rested 5 or 6 first teamers and we couldn't compete after the equaliser. It went from the sublime to the ridiculous.
Very disappointing.

we had put in so much effort in the first 60 mins where I don't think they had one shot after the first went in, as the original post states, we capitulated. If only we had got that second goal, I reckon the momentum would have carried us through but hindsight and all that..........

More due to injuries really for some of our more experience players and we've just lost 2 loan players before the game.

I think we were always going to play a "weaken side" as such although our squad is pretty thin most of the youngsters who played yesterday have at least been on the bench most games.

I was also a bit disappointed that we seemed to turn into a different team after we conceded... Never mind - roll on next week.....

I liked the ground, fairly close to the pitch, atmosphere was quite good and it had character and was 5 minutes from the town centre. The cup dream over for another year - so time to concentrate on the league and picking up as many points as possible...!

I don't think it was a capitulation against Watford or Notts County. In both games we were knacked by clinical finishing.

If you look at the number of chances against Pools in games this season, those games were probably about average. It just happens that most other teams didn't get it in the net.

I would sooner concede 7 goals in 2 games than 7 goals in 7 games.